Is Thor Crazy?

[slimjim]

Re: Thor...God or Nutcase?

Ima believer!

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Thor...God or Nutcase?

I voted nuts, though I'm a bit on the fence.

The thing is, he is currently stuck inside a holding cell. His powers have indeed been neutralized by the removal of his harness and hammer.

So what are we supposed to think? That he really is a god, but a powerless one relying technology?

Of course, there is that bit about teleporting the megabomb at the end of volume 1... But then again, we know that there are other dimensions in UU, whether there are gods or not.

In terms of him not having powers without the harness, that could entirely be due to Loki shifting reality, to make his powers dependant on the harness. After all, I'm pretty sure the harness doesn't grant the ability to read minds (which he demonstrated by reading Banner's in Ultimates #4).

We really do have a thread for this already.

Awww, crap, I'd forgotten about it. Well I guess its up to the mods to just merge this or leave it.

But my opinion is that Thor is a god.

Then vote!

But that doesn't mean that his powers (flight, lightning etc.) are derived from being a god. Who says that gods can do that **** anyway? He's a guy with a scary hammer that has just a little bit more responsibility than most.

Well, seeing as how he's supposedly the Norse God of Thunder, lightning isn't such an unbelievable ability for him. Flight, ehhhh, but it can be lumped in as just a godly ability.

 

[slimjim]

Re: Thor...God or Nutcase?

He got rid of the bomb at the end of the alein invasion in ultimates. The tech couldn't transport a bomb to another reality.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Re: Thor...God or Nutcase?

He got rid of the bomb at the end of the alein invasion in ultimates. The tech couldn't transport a bomb to another reality.

I just adressed that. There are other dimensions in UU.

 

[Guijllons]

Re: Thor...God or Nutcase?

Well, seeing as how he's supposedly the Norse God of Thunder, lightning isn't such an unbelievable ability for him. Flight, ehhhh, but it can be lumped in as just a godly ability.

Thor realised he was a god after his breakdown (or something like that), it's not out of the realms of possibility that he had to appropriate the tools to fulfill this role. Which is what I think happened. A god is the body of a man.

And you may waitadamnsecondthere me with the ease in which he did get his hands on what he needed, but that's the whole point isn't it? He got them from Gunnar who himself is part of the game, he created the tools with which Thor would be discredited on.

Now we're back to Loki, if Thor has no powers, then how come Loki has them? Most of what we have seen loki do is suggest things. Thor stealing the hammer happened, he presented the video in such a way that made Thor out to be a straight lunatic thief. The Italy incident was again a distortion of the facts, just like tv does. The meeting with Volstagg on the other hand. Well, this is where the god aspect of Thor does come into play i would imagine, and so with Loki.

 

[slimjim]

Re: Thor...God or Nutcase?

I just adressed that. There are other dimensions in UU.

Black widow said the tech hammer was suppose to only transport to a certain distance, not go inter dimensional.

 

[Ice]

Alright, continue the discussion here.

 

[DIrishB]

Alright, continue the discussion here.

Thank you sir.

Thor realised he was a god after his breakdown (or something like that), it's not out of the realms of possibility that he had to appropriate the tools to fulfill this role. Which is what I think happened. A god is the body of a man.

And you may waitadamnsecondthere me with the ease in which he did get his hands on what he needed, but that's the whole point isn't it? He got them from Gunnar who himself is part of the game, he created the tools with which Thor would be discredited on.

Now we're back to Loki, if Thor has no powers, then how come Loki has them? Most of what we have seen loki do is suggest things. Thor stealing the hammer happened, he presented the video in such a way that made Thor out to be a straight lunatic thief. The Italy incident was again a distortion of the facts, just like tv does. The meeting with Volstagg on the other hand. Well, this is where the god aspect of Thor does come into play i would imagine, and so with Loki.

All good points, which is why I think the best evidence of his godhood is him reading Banner's mind. Everything else he's done could be explained by the harness...

Black widow said the tech hammer was suppose to only transport to a certain distance, not go inter dimensional.

...even him transporting the bomb to another dimension. It could have just been a technical aspect she was unaware of, or even another case of Loki shifting reality. It might have been capable of inter-dimensional travel before Loki came on the scene, and once reality shifted no longer the case. You have to remember, Loki can do just about anything.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Loki can do just about anything.

Especially if he's just a figment of Thor's imagination...

I know nothing about 616 Loki, but so far in Ultimate, Loki has done squat unless he has done everything, if you know what I mean.

Either he has altered everything on Thor and this will be a huge Deus Ex Machina or otherwise it's all in his head.

 

[Guijllons]

Either he has altered everything on Thor and this will be a huge Deus Ex Machina or otherwise it's all in his head.

That too is the point. We're not supposed to know for certain if Gunnar really is Loki or is just a figment of Thor's imaginings.

And a deus ex machina for what? For Thor being locked up and off the team?

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

That too is the point. We're not supposed to know for certain if Gunnar really is Loki or is just a figment of Thor's imaginings.

And a deus ex machina for what? For Thor being locked up and off the team?

I think he means like Clouds opening up and Odin putting an end to the Loki/Thor squabble.

 

[Guijllons]

I think he means like Clouds opening up and Odin putting an end to the Loki/Thor squabble.

I don't think so. I'm sure he was referring to already existing events in the book. Like if Loki is imagined then Thor's conflict with the Ultimates would not have happened. But I believe it would have.

 

[John Q. Public]

Just look around the guy who tosses the beer at Captain America or whatever it is he does.

Yeah, he's there. I remember looking back after someone pointed out his various appearances, and he's in a panel right before the club crowd turns on Cap.

I like that fact that Thor's background is up in the air. This guy THINKS he's a god and has the tools to act out. That's good enough for me.

But, I'm going to vote crazy. And so is Loki. They may or may not be brothers, but one is a mad scientist and the other is a schizoid idealist. Maybe they met in a psych ward. Or jail, since that's where a lot of mentally ill wind up. Maybe Loki is just a sociopath crime guy who created the great tech, and Thor stole it to do good.

I think Thor honestly believing he's a god--without having to drag all that Odin and Asgard baggage into the UU--fits the universe.

 

[Guijllons]

The one scenes that pretty much confirms the Thor/Loki connection as being something more than just too guys that are nuts is the bar scene.
Was Gunnar just there to annoy Thor and decided it was a bad idea and walked away?

 

[John Q. Public]

2. Where'd the bomb go in "Homeland Security"?

This may be blasphemy, but this is the one problem I have with the characterization continuity. Stark basically told the rest of the team not to worry, the god was going to get rid of it. He seems like a believer. But then he abruptly joins the "Thor's crazy" crowd.

I'm hoping he sent the bomb to Orson Scott Card's winter retreat.

 

[John Q. Public]

The one scenes that pretty much confirms the Thor/Loki connection as being something more than just too guys that are nuts is the bar scene.
Was Gunnar just there to annoy Thor and decided it was a bad idea and walked away?

I think he's a villain just trying to get his gear back from a delusional do-gooder.
And if it means driving a wedge between Thor and Cap et al, then he probably tossed the first beer. Or, in Loki's case, the first cosmopolitan.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

This may be blasphemy, but this is the one problem I have with the characterization continuity. Stark basically told the rest of the team not to worry, the god was going to get rid of it. He seems like a believer. But then he abruptly joins the "Thor's crazy" crowd.

Tony's opinion change is the bulk of Loki's plan. Why do you think Tony's the guy visiting Thor's cell and possibly believeing his warnings? Tony is being forced to belief Thor's crazy but mentally he's fighting himself because he believes he isn't.

 

[John Q. Public]

Tony's opinion change is the bulk of Loki's plan. Why do you think Tony's the guy visiting Thor's cell and possibly believeing his warnings? Tony is being forced to belief Thor's crazy but mentally he's fighting himself because he believes he isn't.

Well, I just saw that scene as Tony visiting a friend whom he thinks is crazy. Loki manipulating reality throughout U2 seems kind of a "disassembled" type cop-out.

 

[DIrishB]

Especially if he's just a figment of Thor's imagination...

I know nothing about 616 Loki, but so far in Ultimate, Loki has done squat unless he has done everything, if you know what I mean.

Either he has altered everything on Thor and this will be a huge Deus Ex Machina or otherwise it's all in his head.

That too is the point. We're not supposed to know for certain if Gunnar really is Loki or is just a figment of Thor's imaginings.

And a deus ex machina for what? For Thor being locked up and off the team?

Exactly. Guij stole the words right from my fingertips.

Tony's opinion change is the bulk of Loki's plan. Why do you think Tony's the guy visiting Thor's cell and possibly believeing his warnings? Tony is being forced to belief Thor's crazy but mentally he's fighting himself because he believes he isn't.

Again, exactly what I was thinking. Its a case of logic vs. intuition. For someone as intelligent as Tony, perhaps its even more difficult to "listen to his heart", because he's too busy mapping out the logistics and likelyhood of it all.

Well, I just saw that scene as Tony visiting a friend whom he thinks is crazy. Loki manipulating reality throughout U2 seems kind of a "disassembled" type cop-out.

I disagree, mainly because Millar has done a wonderful job in my opinion of setting it all up. This is an issue thats been going on since early in the first volume, the question of Thor's godhood. And with Loki even apparently showing up in the background of the first volume, apparently they planned it well in advance. So it doesn't seem like a cop-out, least not to me, as it seems it was an intrinsic part of the story from the very beginning. It isn't like this all just developed in the last issue or two, or even only in this volume alone.

 

[Guijllons]

Well, I just saw that scene as Tony visiting a friend whom he thinks is crazy. Loki manipulating reality throughout U2 seems kind of a "disassembled" type cop-out.

How? If Thor and Loki are gods then what they're doing is fulfilling their duties with little more free will than a dog humping a table leg.
A force is taking the Ultimates apart, we know that now, if someone is going to remove Thor it's going to be his natural enemy.