Is Thor Crazy?

Do you think Thor is crazy?

  • Total voters
    68
Bass said:
But what do you mean "in its true form"? The term deus ex machina comes from a greek term relating to a certain way of ending a story involving coincidence to turn an ending. Your ending is not turned by coincidence.
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Based on that a God would place a subject in the right place at the right time to become a turning point to a story.

This being that Thor may need to be incarcerated in the Triskellion for his fathers plans to be played out and be a crux in the story's denouement.
 
Guijllons said:
Based on that a God would place a subject in the right place at the right time to become a turning point to a story.

This being that Thor may need to be incarcerated in the Triskellion for his fathers plans to be played out and be a crux in the story's denouement.
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That kind of imply that Odin is the one true god. Omnipotent, omniscient and interested in the good of Mankind. Giving us his son for our salvation.

We don't even have any evidence that Jehovah in any of his forms (The countless variations of Chritianism, Judaism and Islam) exists in the Ultimate Universe (or the real world, but that's another debate).

But in the Ultimate universe, the chief god of a long dead pantheon is real? A god that has about zero followers and thus didn't even have the power to keep his own faith alive?

Obviously, the same can be said about the reality of Thor and Loki. It's just so much more Ultimate if Thor is just a loon.
 
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E.Vi.L. said:
That kind of imply that Odin is the one true god. Omnipotent, omniscient and interested in the good of Mankind. Giving us his son for our salvation.
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Kind of, which is also part of my question about what being a god means in the UU. If lowly mutants can affect reality, then what could a god do? And what would be their will? I'm separating Odin from Thor in this case.

We don't even have any evidence that Jehovah in any of his forms (The countless variations of Chritianism, Judaism and Islam) exists in the Ultimate Universe (or the real world, but that's another debate).
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We don't. We know people go to church, that's all. And if Jehovah did exist then it would be Ultimate Jehovah anyway. :)

But in the Ultimate universe, the chief god of a long dead pantheon is real? A god that has about zero followers and thus didn't even have the power to keep his own faith alive?
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That's a good point. But consider this age where people are looking for new way, and are very concerned about the environment and global conflict etc. Wouldn't the calls for some changes bring back this 'aspect'. A god is only as powerful as the sum of the prayers sent to him and all. Prayers may not need to have been direct.

Obviously, the same can be said about the reality of Thor and Loki. It's just so much more Ultimate if Thor is just a loon.
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But presuming that Odin is 'real', then the whole pantheon would be brought into existence. Loki is a natural predator, an essential part of the balances of a natural world.
 
Guijllons said:
That's a good point. But consider this age where people are looking for new way, and are very concerned about the environment and global conflict etc. Wouldn't the calls for some changes bring back this 'aspect'. A god is only as powerful as the sum of the prayers sent to him and all. Prayers may not need to have been direct.
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But if the dead Norse Pantheon, what else?

Do you have any idea how many dead cults liters the page of History? Never mind the living ones. If faith can give powers in UU, we should have more faith based heroes and villains than mutants or any other kind. And the Ultimates would be neck deep in fanatic super terrorists.

Unless of course only the Norse pantheon is real.
 
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E.Vi.L. said:
But if the dead Norse Pantheon, what else?

Do you have any idea how many dead cults liters the page of History? Never mind the living ones. If faith can give powers in UU, we should have more faith based heroes and villains than mutants or any other kind. And the Ultimates would be neck deep in fanatic super terrorists.
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Well, maybe, it just worked this once. I'm not going to write new rules for the ultimate universe on demand to justify Millar's story.
 
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fnord said:
Is thor crazy?

Yes.

Is he also the Son of Odin?

Maybe.


My preference. i hope we never find out for sure. I woudl like no payof, i want to be on the cusp, never really knowing if he is mad or really a thunder god.

That would indeed rock.
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Yes!
 
Guijllons said:
Well, maybe, it just worked this once. I'm not going to write new rules for the ultimate universe on demand to justify Millar's story.
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You don't have to. Nobody should have the awful task of justifying why X faith would ressurect based on prayers and not Y. Or why X dead pantheon is genuine and Y pantheon isn't.

The best I can come up with would be that Odin is amongst that crowd of immortals we saw in that awful UFF annual. In which case Odin isn't a God, just a powerful super powered beings. And his son shouldn't need a harness and a hammer to have powers, then.

A few of these immortals had mythology inspired names, as a matter of fact. Still waiting for an explanation about their origins though.
 
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bizzarojimmyolsen said:
Thor is a god and as such he is beyond human understanding.


You know when I read Thor's fight with the Ultimates, I kept thinking back to that issue of the Avengers where 616 Thor reveals he's far more powerful than the rest of the team believed, but he held back not to make them feel bad.
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Whoa! Really? Can you describe that? I was a huge regular Avengers fan back in the day (though I left often and missed massive continuity gaps). How'd this play out? Seriously. Can you describe this in more detail?
 
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E.Vi.L. said:
You don't have to. Nobody should have the awful task of justifying why X faith would ressurect based on prayers and Y. Or why X dead pantheon is genuine and Y pantheon isn't.

If the answer involves that faith makes it real, the end result will be drivel by default because it would obviously mess up the world beyond recognition.

The best I can come up with would be that Odin is amongst that crowd of immortals we saw in that awful UFF annual. In which case Odin isn't a God, just a powerful super powered beings. (for which we are still waiting an explanation). And his son shouldn't need a harness and a hammer to have powers, then.
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Which goes back to the god question, really.
In this real world, a god is immeasurable and unquantifiable and absolutely supernatural.
I was supposing that in the UU they are projections of an idea. The source for this idea however isn't anything I want to throw around right now. But this means that they do not necessarily have to be as unrelated to reality as in this world.

I think we're both trying to resist the idea that Odin is a supernatural magical force, something which I feel has no place in the UU. But I cannot deny that I believe Thor is what he says he is, at least to his own comprehension. Odin may just be a 10 year old telepath.

Working within the rules of the UU, Thor can, absolutely, be the son of a god, if we readdress what a god is there.
 
cmdrjanjalani said:
Maybe he'll be wearing his winged helmet by that time. :p
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I just pray Odin, the Christian God, or some other helpful deity will step in and prevent that from happening.
 
Guijllons said:
Which goes back to the god question, really.
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Yeah, but I'm not sure Ultimates can adress that question in a meaningful way.

I know that you can adress divinity, faith and free-will VS determinism (an inescapable dilemna as soon as gods are mentionned) in a comic book in an intelligent manner.

Lucifer is one of my favorite all time comics and it does so masterfully. But then, it's the whole focus of a serie that has run thrice as long as the Ultimates...

Ultimates is doing a lot of things right but it shouldn't be spreading itself too thin IMO.
 
Guijllons said:
Based on that a God would place a subject in the right place at the right time to become a turning point to a story.

This being that Thor may need to be incarcerated in the Triskellion for his fathers plans to be played out and be a crux in the story's denouement.
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Ah yes. I see, it would indeed be deus ex machina if not effectively set up. But provided the 'return' had meaning and was set up, it wouldn't be deus ex machina. If on the other hand, without set up, it just went, "Boy, was that lucky", unless it was particularly powerful and meaningful - which would make it synchronicity - it would indeed be deus ex machina in its truest form, as you say, for he's a God. But hey, it happened in Powers every single arc, and that turned Bendis into the Galactus of the Marvel Universe - so **** everything.
 
Bass said:
Ah yes. I see, it would indeed be deus ex machina if not effectively set up. But provided the 'return' had meaning and was set up, it wouldn't be deus ex machina. If on the other hand, without set up, it just went, "Boy, was that lucky", unless it was particularly powerful and meaningful - which would make it synchronicity - it would indeed be deus ex machina in its truest form, as you say, for he's a God. But hey, it happened in Powers every single arc, and that turned Bendis into the Galactus of the Marvel Universe - so **** everything.
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You're getting that it was an irreverent dig at the nature of a god in the first place, right?

Nobody gets me.

TheManWithFeelings said:
I hope the plot of Thor's true mission (If he is a god) doesn't play out in this arc. I'd like to see that story come seperately.
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He certainly needs a mini-series. But I think Millar can't help but address some things that he's brought up so far.
 
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Maybe Thor is being kept back for a big showdown, a last hope, say Ultimate Galactus?
 
lesta90 said:
Maybe Thor is being kept back for a big showdown, a last hope, say Ultimate Galactus?
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Well, Thor could easily play a major role against Galactus, but whatever he does there won't impact this general topic much since the showdown with Galactus takes place before the events of Ultimates 2 (which is where the whole issue of whether he's a god or crazy man comes to the forefront).
 
Gamma Man said:
Okay, how can you hallucinate something behind you? Okay, in V2, when Thor sat with the fat guy, Loki was in the backround, so, how can you be crazy if something that you are supposedly hallucinating be behind u and u not even knowing it?:arrgh:
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Why are you banging your head against a wall?

I thought this thread was supposed to be closed? I think it's apparent that if time travel is possible, gods are too.
 
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