Grand Theft America speculation (Ultimates 2 spoilers)

Actually, can anyone post what Ultron's done in 616? Maybe this'll give us insight to the guy.

For my part:

Ultron was created by Pym, but as soon as he became sentient, he developed an irrational hatred for Pym and tried to kill him. Each time he was defeated, and each time he returned more powerful than the time before, continously upgrading himself.

One of his most recent machinations involved him killing a small European country. I forget why. Something to do with 20 years of Avengers comics I hadn't read (man, did I feel like a sucked for picking up the arc - here I was assuming the arc would make sense on its own - how wrong I was...).

Anyone else got something to add?
 
Parthuman said:
Geez, an Ultimate geography thread. Allow me to get back to some the speculation. Recall that Banner gave Pym all his super-soldier research when the two seemingly reconciled? Perhaps the key to Ultron is that he's the outgrowth of the marriage of Banner and Pym's individual work.

Add to that the fact that Pym has everything he needs to know about the Wasp's mutant powers -- to the point where he was able to replicate them in himself. Maybe all these ingredients -- mutant power, super-soldier serum, even enhanced suits--figure into the Ultimate Ultron makeup.

I like the idea raised earlier that he's humanoid. Maybe "Grand Theft America" is Ultron hijacking the Ultimates (and maybe masquerading as Captain America) while he builds an army of replicants. Maybe those folks we see on the cover of #7 are an army of Ultrons, perhaps even meant to replace the original Ultimates (also harkening back to the Banner-Pym final conversation.

And then they go haywire and try to conquer the world, or at least Lake Afghanistan.
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I really like how you've really put Pym and Banner in the seats of the villains rather than your Ultrons. While they are the soldiers, we've got two brains working against the good guys here. Very cool. Maybe the Defenders and Thor could be able to help out with this whole world dominance deal that Banner and Pym are putting together. A very cool approach; it's an idea that I wouldn't put past Millar, either. Very cool.
 
Whew, took forever to read through that ^^.

Hmm, I definately don't think that Hank Pym is building Ultron for malicious reasons at all. Millar clearly states his heart is in the right place for the Defenders, so I doubt they'll be anything dark or shadowy.

I get conflicting feelings when I think about him ratting out Banner. They seemed to be friends.. he went to his funeral and so forth. On the one hand, it seems as though he weakened the serum stuff so he'd wake up..on the other hand it seemed as though he was shocked and unhappy that banner survived.. so I am conflicted there. At any rate, I don't think he's trying to be a bad guy, he is trying to pull himself out of the pit he's fallen into. Ultron will be a mistake.

I wonder if perhaps Ultron will be a more computer thing then a big robot that blows stuff up. Maybe he will be more similar to a computer virus..taking over America that way? Like a super AI virus.. and uses more then just one robot "body". I know it's a bit farfetched, but who knows? I think it'd be neat if Ultron is more computer based.

I still think Hank is going to be Ant-man as opposed to Giant-man, but who knows. I loved how he was always switching Identities (Yellowjacket was coolest ^^).

I don't think Fury is going to be a bad guy at all, and Ultimates will most likely stay affiliated with the government.

Oh, and to reinforce my Hank not being the traitor opinion..would it really shock Thor if he was? Did Thor even mention Hank again after the whole Wasp thing? I don't know.. I am 100% positive it isn't Captain America. It being Wasp would be cool..anyways that's for a different threat. ^^
 
Rawb said:
Whew, took forever to read through that ^^.

Hmm, I definately don't think that Hank Pym is building Ultron for malicious reasons at all. Millar clearly states his heart is in the right place for the Defenders, so I doubt they'll be anything dark or shadowy.

I get conflicting feelings when I think about him ratting out Banner. They seemed to be friends.. he went to his funeral and so forth. On the one hand, it seems as though he weakened the serum stuff so he'd wake up..on the other hand it seemed as though he was shocked and unhappy that banner survived.. so I am conflicted there. At any rate, I don't think he's trying to be a bad guy, he is trying to pull himself out of the pit he's fallen into. Ultron will be a mistake.

I wonder if perhaps Ultron will be a more computer thing then a big robot that blows stuff up. Maybe he will be more similar to a computer virus..taking over America that way? Like a super AI virus.. and uses more then just one robot "body". I know it's a bit farfetched, but who knows? I think it'd be neat if Ultron is more computer based.

I still think Hank is going to be Ant-man as opposed to Giant-man, but who knows. I loved how he was always switching Identities (Yellowjacket was coolest ^^).

I don't think Fury is going to be a bad guy at all, and Ultimates will most likely stay affiliated with the government.

Oh, and to reinforce my Hank not being the traitor opinion..would it really shock Thor if he was? Did Thor even mention Hank again after the whole Wasp thing? I don't know.. I am 100% positive it isn't Captain America. It being Wasp would be cool..anyways that's for a different threat. ^^
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I love a lot of your thoughts there Rawb... you seem to actually speculate on what's there and not make any assumptions against any of the characters unless there's solid evidence.

Quick question though. We're did you feel that Hank was unhappy Banner didn't survive. I didn't really pick that vibe up at all.
 
Well the reason I said so was first of all he didn't LOOK too happy..and "Oh my God" could really be taken two ways.. a) Oh my God he's alive..how? or.. b) Oh my God Bruce is a live!. To me, he just looked more dismayed then anything.. however, it really could be taken either way. I don't want to think they're making him to be even worse so I doubt he intended for him to die. But the serum could have actually screwed up and he DID mess up, which would cause him to be surprised either way.
 
The way I interpreted that was that Hank had realized the mistake he just made. Here we have a person that's trying to help with the Ultimates in every way possible after he's made a fatal mistake and Fury keeps shutting him down. Out of frustration, I would imagine, and because he's Banner's friend, he keeps him alive, only to make another mistake probably contrable to beating his wife. Again, he's failed to help the Ultimates like he wants to. That probably hurts him a great deal... Who wants to be a mistake these days? That's why I like Pym; he's troubled and absolutely realistic when it comes to what he's doing for a living.

As for the traitor... The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it's either Pym or Fury. Pym's reason is simple. As I said above, he's desperately trying to prove something... By selling out the Hulk, Pym could take all of his ideas about super soldiers and say they were his, ultimately coming up with all sorts of great ideas he never really could by himself. Fury, on the other hand, could've seen Hulk as too much of a liability and one that needed to be done away with, so he first wasted him publically so that he could make it look less like he's manipulative and so he'd be assured Hulk would be put away with. I think it's totally in his character to do so.
 
Yeah, those were some of the reasons why I thought it might have been Hank..but I still am iffy on it. I don't believe he is going to be the traitor because it really doesn't seem like Millar is building him up to be a bad guy anymore..and he's not really on the team anymore (as someone else mentioned).

Hmm as for it being Fury... That would definately be a shock. It might be too much of a negative however, because Fury is very popular. Furthermore, in USM, he is a really nice guy. I just can't see him selling anyone out.

Black Widow seems eligible..and Loki said it'd be shocking to Thor..not necessarily shocking to us.

Bah, I hope it's not Pym, I don't want to see him torn down any further :( Redeem redeem!
 
Bass said:
Actually, can anyone post what Ultron's done in 616? Maybe this'll give us insight to the guy.

For my part:

Ultron was created by Pym, but as soon as he became sentient, he developed an irrational hatred for Pym and tried to kill him. Each time he was defeated, and each time he returned more powerful than the time before, continously upgrading himself.

One of his most recent machinations involved him killing a small European country. I forget why. Something to do with 20 years of Avengers comics I hadn't read (man, did I feel like a sucked for picking up the arc - here I was assuming the arc would make sense on its own - how wrong I was...).

Anyone else got something to add?
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Ultron brainwashed Jarvis while he was going by as the first Crimson Cowl. He led the masters of evil into the avengers mansion where they defeated teh avengers. He had Jarvis dress up as the crimson cowl and unmask himself so he'd look like was the crimson cowl.

Later on he revealed himself as the true cowl to the avengers and the masters of evil. They were all freaked out he was a robot.

What else has he done... he's upgraded himself over a dozen times..including an adamantium coating, making him extremely powerful. He came back once and kidnapped the wasp and hank pym and brainwashed him into creating himself a robotic mate (who later became an avenger for a short while). She was based off the wasp.

Hmm.. I'm not sure if any of this stuff will be ultimized but if the wasp was the traitor (which isn't likely but who knows) some of this might come into play.

But yeah, that's all the ultron history I can think of, Bass.
 
Rawb said:
Well the reason I said so was first of all he didn't LOOK too happy..and "Oh my God" could really be taken two ways.. a) Oh my God he's alive..how? or.. b) Oh my God Bruce is a live!.
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I took it as, "Oh my God - it worked! I'm a genius!"
 
For the sake of argument, I've made a case for the Wasp being the traitor (her personal and professional dislike for Banner, her mercurial temper, her sleeping with the team leader, her media connections, her attempt to hide the fact she was a mutant, etc.) and Goodwill brought up a good point: What the hell is her motive?

That's hard to answer about any suspected traitor simply because we don't know who in blazes the enemy is! Sure, we got Loki, but we don't even know if he's really Loki. And I don't think that's gonna be resolved during the Millar run.

That's what makes this title so compelling: it totally trashes convention and tricks us into using the regular Marvel U to make guesses. The weird ambiguities and unanswered questions -- Quicksilver's and Wanda's hilariously perverse relationship, whether Pym intentionally or unintentionally let Banner live, whether Thor is Thor --is totally intentional and half the fun of the comic. This series is all about paradox.

As for my lonely crusade to pin the Wasp as the traitor (if there is one), she could have ties to a nefarious mutant cabal. And while Fury knew she was a mutant, she sure tried to keep that a secret.

In the end, though, I think the final arc is going to come down to Pym (now the total repository of super-soldier, hulk, Giant-man and AI research) and Captain America. Ultron is being designed to be the new Captain America.

Yeah, yeah. That's it.
 
I have to say that I read Pym's "Oh My God" as basically this: he did mean for Banner to survive, and it what he wanted. But... the reality catches up with him. Banner's alive - and so is the Hulk. It's just the realisation of what his action means now that its happened. You can plan and plan, and part of you may think it might work, and the other part might think otherwise, but when it happens, you're still unprepared. I took it as that.
 
Bass said:
I have to say that I read Pym's "Oh My God" as basically this: he did mean for Banner to survive, and it what he wanted. But... the reality catches up with him. Banner's alive - and so is the Hulk. It's just the realisation of what his action means now that its happened. You can plan and plan, and part of you may think it might work, and the other part might think otherwise, but when it happens, you're still unprepared. I took it as that.
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That's an awesome point. I liked that they were friends and I was glad that he may have saved him.
 
Bass said:
I have to say that I read Pym's "Oh My God" as basically this: he did mean for Banner to survive, and it what he wanted. But... the reality catches up with him. Banner's alive - and so is the Hulk. It's just the realisation of what his action means now that its happened. You can plan and plan, and part of you may think it might work, and the other part might think otherwise, but when it happens, you're still unprepared. I took it as that.
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i think that is the best idea behind the "oh my god" that hank said. i heard a few others try and pitch there ideas but your's works really well.
 
At Millarworld they were discussing New Avengers outselling Ultimates 2, and someone jokingly said that Millar needed to add Ultimate Spidey and Ultimate Wolverine, to which Millar responded:

Funnily enough, they're ALL in Grand Theft America. It's your chance to see Hitchy draw all your faves.
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I don't remember reading that. Interesting.
 
It will be interesting to see how Millar writes Spider-Man. As we've seen with Bendis writing both New Avengers and Ultimate Spider-Man, the 616 Spider-Man and the Ultimate Spider-Man are two different characters entirely and we'll need to see a difference... I wonder if Millar can do it.
 
fantomex said:
i think that is the best idea behind the "oh my god" that hank said. i heard a few others try and pitch there ideas but your's works really well.
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Thanks. :D
 
Well,that idea could tie into mine, where Hank sort of regretted doing it because he wanted to do good for SHIELD and, by keeping him alive, would ultimately seal his fate as a pariah in a lot of respects... We'll see what Millar meant soon.
 
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