Captain America Movie

Venom Melendez said:
You know, i hope he punches Hitler in the movie.
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I hope it happens like this, with the guy here being replaced by Hitler:


captain_america_wank-737745.jpg
 
Really now, is there any choice for the villain besides der Skull? Afterall he is more iconic than Klesier.
 
The Overlord said:
Really now, is there any choice for the villain besides der Skull? Afterall he is more iconic than Klesier.
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Well, they could go with The original Baron Zemo so his can show and form The Masters of Evil in a later movie.

Though i'd perfer Skull and i'd hope they have Zola as his right hand man.
 
A Nazi Colonel. No stupid names or wearing a skull mask because he's Hitler's poster boy for his political movement...because that's the face he wants the international media to see.

Steve Rogers is what Hitler wanted. I want the Nazi villain to reflect that as well. I love Skull in Bru's Cap. Great villain!

...

But for a movie....set in one of the most documented wars in human history....a guy in a red skull mask....

Give me a Nazi Steve Rogers with the Skull's intelligence and brilliance. No mask, no stupid name. In fact, I'd like it if Captain America was just Cap's propaganda name or codename and most people, especially higher up military types, would call him Captain Rogers.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe two bright colored figures fighting each other in World War 2 would sell great and people love it.

But I'm really thinking a more serious approach is what is needed.
 
A man gets a curropted copy of the super-soldier serum from a blood sample of Steve Rogers. The Nazi's are angry because the very ideal of Nazi perfection has been achieved by the enemy and is fighting against them. They synthesize it into a stronger form and inject it into Nazi General Johann Schmidt. It does make him Captain America's equal, but he comes to realize that his body is rapidly decaying. Over the course of the film his hair falls out and the skin on his face begins to wither away. Then we either get a skullish looking general for Cap to fight, or someone with a decaying face who wears a more stylized Skull mask for Practicality's sake.

That's my take. But it should be The Red Skull. And he should have a Red Skull. Read his wiki article, even the Hitler giving him the mask story could work if told right.
 
Foolsfolly said:
But for a movie....set in one of the most documented wars in human history....a guy in a red skull mask....

Give me a Nazi Steve Rogers with the Skull's intelligence and brilliance. No mask, no stupid name. In fact, I'd like it if Captain America was just Cap's propaganda name or codename and most people, especially higher up military types, would call him Captain Rogers.
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Totally. You drag out the really silly original costume and the Captain America name for all the publicity and fanfare, but once it's actually out there in the trenches, he's Captain Rogers, elite American commando with the strength and guile to incapacitate entire Nazi units on his own, in a uniform with genuine tactical application. Captain America was fine and well for the time (Well, not really. At the time he was rather flat-faced, patronizing propaganda), but in a time when we are all retroactively aware of how horrifying it was - the utter mechanization of murder - I think it's rather hard to swallow the idea of this brightly colored superhero dynamo bouncing around in the midst of trench warfare.

Dr.Strangefate said:
A man gets a curropted copy of the super-soldier serum from a blood sample of Steve Rogers. The Nazi's are angry because the very ideal of Nazi perfection has been achieved by the enemy and is fighting against them. They synthesize it into a stronger form and inject it into Nazi General Johann Schmidt. It does make him Captain America's equal, but he comes to realize that his body is rapidly decaying. Over the course of the film his hair falls out and the skin on his face begins to wither away. Then we either get a skullish looking general for Cap to fight, or someone with a decaying face who wears a more stylized Skull mask for Practicality's sake.
Click to expand...

I've got to respectfully disagree. There has to be much more to it than "Captain America vs. Nazis". It's a cheap sell if we make it out to be "The super-serum worked for us 'cuz we're good guys and it made them into monsters 'cuz they're bad guys".

This movie is being ticketed as the prequel/origin story to the Avengers, and it needs a central conflict powerful enough to sustain the first real, modern day superhero team epic. I feel the real conflict asking to be told isn't about America vs. Nazis. It's about the global threat posed by modern war technology escalation. Case in point, the nuclear bomb. It won us the war but also opened up a pandora's box that can never be closed: opening the world to the existentially terrifying threat of total annihilation. That should be the blueprint the real conflict follows. I believe that all of these characters, in some way, are reactionary metaphors to the ever-looming specter of post-industrial warfare. America realizes that the only way to beat the Nazi menace is to be as ruthless and nihilistic as they are; to create a perfect man, a human weapon capable of wholesale and massive destruction. There should be that moment of revelation, when Steve Rogers realizes that the doors opened by this weapon project is far more menacing a threat than the Nazis could ever be. The central conflict should be the fallout from the Super-Soldier Serum, where we see the multilateral threat of a half dozen world powers all trying to harness the destructive power opened by this project. From here springs the seeds of all the threats the Avengers will face: the Russian serum (that will eventually produce Hulk villain, the Abomination) developed by Stalin, recognizing that when the Axis is defeated, there will be another war on the horizon; the awesome power of the Ten Rings, Japan's own imperialist super-weapon; and the Nazis' own bizarre experiments in human weaponry. It's cool to see references to the comic books in the movies, but what's even cooler is seeing references to the other films. It's cool to see, "Hey, look. They're sing the super-soldier serum to make the Abomination in Hulk". What's even cooler is, "Hey. Look at that. In the Captain America movie we see the blueprint of conquest that Raza's trying to fulfill in the Iron Man movie!" or "Look at that. It's the origin of the big mean dude from the Hulk movie! And it links all the way back to the 1940's!"

I'd make the Red Skull and the Mandarin primary villains, maybe with hints of Loki waiting in the wings, fueling the war on, providing tools for the Axis war machine. The Red Skull needs to be something much bigger than a lackey to Hitler. The threat we need is bigger than the Nazis. The Red Skull sees beyond Hitler's self-destructive, maniacal schemes. The Fourth Reich isn't his goal, but merely a staging grand for his own larger plan, the Nazi war machine a perfect cover for his own experimentations and plans of conquest. He's a mad genius with a more mature, but equally as twisted understanding of Nietzschian philosophy. As his plans are repeatedly foiled by Captain America, we start to see him grow more and more twisted, undergoing a metamorphosis from the rather typical Nazi commandant we see him at the beginning into a threat worthy of the Avengers. As he descends into a madness, we begin to see a man who threatens the balance that so precariously sheltered us throughout the Cold War. To the Red Skull, mutually assured destruction is no threat. He's a man unafraid of death, but unwilling to die on anything but his own terms. He wants the world to crumble to dust around him, and he wants Steve Rogers there to watch. For the record, I think Mark Millar's origin of the Red Skull is the most badass way to do it. Steve Rogers shoving the Red Skull's face into a boiling fountain until flesh and sinew are melted away.

Like said, the Fourth Reich is just a staging ground for the war, meaning the war between American jingoism and German nazism is just a backdrop for the real conflict: freedom and liberty vs. absolute nihilism. I'm of the mind that if Hitler had won the war his house of cards could not stand. His Reich would buckle quickly and end up usurped by all the jackals who saw his crazy genocidal war as a means to their own ambitions. Steve Rogers isn't battling the threat of the Nazis. He's battling a conspiracy larger and darker, operating from inside Hitler's cabinet. Hitler is merely an unknowing toady in the master nihilist's grand plan. I'd make it a race for a mysterious whats-it, with Cap chasing the Ahnenerbe through all sorts of exotic locales in their search for a weapon of limitless potential. The exact nature of the weapon is flexible, but whatever it is, it's crucial to the Red Skull's plans. Over the course of the chase, Rogers encounters all sorts of Nazi experimentations into human weaponry that highlights the terrors of modern warfare.

One way to do it would be to make the whatsit the Spear of Longinus, the self-same spear that Odin used to pluck out his own eye, the same spear which pierced Christ's body. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, how awesome would it be to have the Red Skull finally stumble upon the sacred lake where Odin acquired all-knowledge by hanging himself, only to have his flesh burned away as Steve Rogers holds his face in the holy waters? Tying the origins of the Red Skull and Captain America back into Loki and the Norse Gods is too good. And then there's the fact that the gods of Germany and the gods of Iceland are one and the same. I think no matter how you do it, this connection needs to be broached in some way. On the other hand, it's rather uber-comic booky and would probably threaten the integrity of the story by trying to tie too many disparate elements together.

In short, it should provide an origin that hooks all of these modern characters' backgrounds together and provides an over-arching theme that unites them all: namely the horrors of post-WWII warfare. At the center of it should be a triumvirate of great evils. Loki, the embodiment of mischief, the ultimate Puckish figure, a creature utterly inhuman who revels in destruction for no purpose other than the sake of destruction. He is the atomic bomb. The Mandarin, spiritual descendant of imperialism embodied in WWII-era Japan, who sees himself as the next Alexander the Great. The original Mandarin would be the embodiment of the worst aspects of WWII era Imperial Japan (in the same way the Red Skull is the distillation of the worst aspects of Nazi philosophy) - overly traditional, ritualistic, and fueled by this innate belief in divine right. He is a child of the gods, and he deserves this Earth. Hakko Ichiu: All The World Under One Roof. And Red Skull, the ultimate egotist, who has lost everything, who has undergone too much suffering to keep living, yet who has so much pride that he insists on bringing the rest of the world with him.

This movie shouldn't be anti-Nazi (although I'd hope that we're ALL anti-Nazi already). At the same time, I'm not suggesting it should be anti-American. The Americans were doing what they had to to win the war, and if they hadn't refined the weaponry, someone else would have. It should be anti-war, and at the core of this should be the internal conflict of Captain America. Even knowing that this kind of weaponry was an inevitability, Steve Rogers still has to bear the burden of the fact that he is the genesis of post-modern warfare.

Alright, who wants to give me a medal?
 
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Ice said:
Pfft. Ourchair wannabe.
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I AM ALAN MOORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ice said:
"In short". Hehe. Irony!
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Yeah. After typing "in short", I went back and edited in a bunch of different clarifications, and completely forgot that was there.

How's this then?

"In short, I suggest The First Avenger: Captain America be retitled as Captain America: Existential Anxiety In A Post-Industrial World." Snazzy yeah? It just rolls off the tongue.
 
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Zombipanda said:
Totally. You drag out the really silly original costume and the Captain America name for all the publicity and fanfare, but once it's actually out there in the trenches, he's Captain Rogers, elite American commando with the strength and guile to incapacitate entire Nazi units on his own, in a uniform with genuine tactical application. Captain America was fine and well for the time (Well, not really. At the time he was rather flat-faced, patronizing propaganda), but in a time when we are all retroactively aware of how horrifying it was - the utter mechanization of murder - I think it's rather hard to swallow the idea of this brightly colored superhero dynamo bouncing around in the midst of trench warfare.



I've got to respectfully disagree. There has to be much more to it than "Captain America vs. Nazis". It's a cheap sell if we make it out to be "The super-serum worked for us 'cuz we're good guys and it made them into monsters 'cuz they're bad guys".

This movie is being ticketed as the prequel/origin story to the Avengers, and it needs a central conflict powerful enough to sustain the first real, modern day superhero team epic. I feel the real conflict asking to be told isn't about America vs. Nazis. It's about the global threat posed by modern war technology escalation. Case in point, the nuclear bomb. It won us the war but also opened up a pandora's box that can never be closed: opening the world to the existentially terrifying threat of total annihilation. That should be the blueprint the real conflict follows. I believe that all of these characters, in some way, are reactionary metaphors to the ever-looming specter of post-industrial warfare. America realizes that the only way to beat the Nazi menace is to be as ruthless and nihilistic as they are; to create a perfect man, a human weapon capable of wholesale and massive destruction. There should be that moment of revelation, when Steve Rogers realizes that the doors opened by this weapon project is far more menacing a threat than the Nazis could ever be. The central conflict should be the fallout from the Super-Soldier Serum, where we see the multilateral threat of a half dozen world powers all trying to harness the destructive power opened by this project. From here springs the seeds of all the threats the Avengers will face: the Russian serum (that will eventually produce Hulk villain, the Abomination) developed by Stalin, recognizing that when the Axis is defeated, there will be another war on the horizon; the awesome power of the Ten Rings, Japan's own imperialist super-weapon; and the Nazis' own bizarre experiments in human weaponry. It's cool to see references to the comic books in the movies, but what's even cooler is seeing references to the other films. It's cool to see, "Hey, look. They're sing the super-soldier serum to make the Abomination in Hulk". What's even cooler is, "Hey. Look at that. In the Captain America movie we see the blueprint of conquest that Raza's trying to fulfill in the Iron Man movie!" or "Look at that. It's the origin of the big mean dude from the Hulk movie! And it links all the way back to the 1940's!"

I'd make the Red Skull and the Mandarin primary villains, maybe with hints of Loki waiting in the wings, fueling the war on, providing tools for the Axis war machine. The Red Skull needs to be something much bigger than a lackey to Hitler. The threat we need is bigger than the Nazis. The Red Skull sees beyond Hitler's self-destructive, maniacal schemes. The Fourth Reich isn't his goal, but merely a staging grand for his own larger plan, the Nazi war machine a perfect cover for his own experimentations and plans of conquest. He's a mad genius with a more mature, but equally as twisted understanding of Nietzschian philosophy. As his plans are repeatedly foiled by Captain America, we start to see him grow more and more twisted, undergoing a metamorphosis from the rather typical Nazi commandant we see him at the beginning into a threat worthy of the Avengers. As he descends into a madness, we begin to see a man who threatens the balance that so precariously sheltered us throughout the Cold War. To the Red Skull, mutually assured destruction is no threat. He's a man unafraid of death, but unwilling to die on anything but his own terms. He wants the world to crumble to dust around him, and he wants Steve Rogers there to watch. For the record, I think Mark Millar's origin of the Red Skull is the most badass way to do it. Steve Rogers shoving the Red Skull's face into a boiling fountain until flesh and sinew are melted away.

Like said, the Fourth Reich is just a staging ground for the war, meaning the war between American jingoism and German nazism is just a backdrop for the real conflict: freedom and liberty vs. absolute nihilism. I'm of the mind that if Hitler had won the war his house of cards could not stand. His Reich would buckle quickly and end up usurped by all the jackals who saw his crazy genocidal war as a means to their own ambitions. Steve Rogers isn't battling the threat of the Nazis. He's battling a conspiracy larger and darker, operating from inside Hitler's cabinet. Hitler is merely an unknowing toady in the master nihilist's grand plan. I'd make it a race for a mysterious whats-it, with Cap chasing the Ahnenerbe through all sorts of exotic locales in their search for a weapon of limitless potential. The exact nature of the weapon is flexible, but whatever it is, it's crucial to the Red Skull's plans. Over the course of the chase, Rogers encounters all sorts of Nazi experimentations into human weaponry that highlights the terrors of modern warfare.

One way to do it would be to make the whatsit the Spear of Longinus, the self-same spear that Odin used to pluck out his own eye, the same spear which pierced Christ's body. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, how awesome would it be to have the Red Skull finally stumble upon the sacred lake where Odin acquired all-knowledge by hanging himself, only to have his flesh burned away as Steve Rogers holds his face in the holy waters? Tying the origins of the Red Skull and Captain America back into Loki and the Norse Gods is too good. And then there's the fact that the gods of Germany and the gods of Iceland are one and the same. I think no matter how you do it, this connection needs to be broached in some way. On the other hand, it's rather uber-comic booky and would probably threaten the integrity of the story by trying to tie too many disparate elements together.

In short, it should provide an origin that hooks all of these modern characters' backgrounds together and provides an over-arching theme that unites them all: namely the horrors of post-WWII warfare. At the center of it should be a triumvirate of great evils. Loki, the embodiment of mischief, the ultimate Puckish figure, a creature utterly inhuman who revels in destruction for no purpose other than the sake of destruction. He is the atomic bomb. The Mandarin, spiritual descendant of imperialism embodied in WWII-era Japan, who sees himself as the next Alexander the Great. The original Mandarin would be the embodiment of the worst aspects of WWII era Imperial Japan (in the same way the Red Skull is the distillation of the worst aspects of Nazi philosophy) - overly traditional, ritualistic, and fueled by this innate belief in divine right. He is a child of the gods, and he deserves this Earth. Hakko Ichiu: All The World Under One Roof. And Red Skull, the ultimate egotist, who has lost everything, who has undergone too much suffering to keep living, yet who has so much pride that he insists on bringing the rest of the world with him.

This movie shouldn't be anti-Nazi (although I'd hope that we're ALL anti-Nazi already). At the same time, I'm not suggesting it should be anti-American. The Americans were doing what they had to to win the war, and if they hadn't refined the weaponry, someone else would have. It should be anti-war, and at the core of this should be the internal conflict of Captain America. Even knowing that this kind of weaponry was an inevitability, Steve Rogers still has to bear the burden of the fact that he is the genesis of post-modern warfare.

Alright, who wants to give me a medal?
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I agree a lot. There's wee bit parts I'm not sold on but I'm a imagine I could live with them.

But in all seriousness, I want the central idea of these heroes opening Pandora's Box to be in all of these movies. It already is for Iron Man and Incredible Hulk with the IronTech suits now wanted and a suit still missing and we see the Abomination change because of Banner's work on the super soldier serum so Tony and Bruce have opened whole new kinds of super weapons which could devastate the world if mass produced by any nation or power.

It would be easy for Thor since an Asgardian coming to Earth means that something might follow him. Would the Asgardians bother with Midgard if Thor wasn't sent or left to go to it? Gods interfering with humanity.

Cap is the easiest since it's already tied into Banner and Abomination. I don't think we need another tie in since that's already there.

Comics always had this. Villains which the heroes created or who are hellbent on hurting the heroes that they destroy so much and so many. At some point we've all asked would these guys be here if Spider-Man was never Spider-Man?

Sort of like a superhero It's A Wonderful Life, only a few might not like the answer to that question. I think Batman's finding that out in the Dark Knight movie since escalation is the main theme of that movie (Gordon's whole ending speech on they get automatic, we get body armor, they get armor piercing bullets thing at the end of Begins).

So I like these really bright people who want to help opening up whole new ways to hurt and kill and they have the responsibility to stop it. I think Ultimates opened that door as superheroes as weapons which I don't think will ever leave the genre again.

For one, because there are those out there wanting battle suited armies and genetically perfect soldiers and the Hulk is roid rage taken to an over-the-top level. Hell Thor is a Norse God! They're perfect warriors and here he is able to tear apart whole armies with lightning and thunder and all without flexing a muscle.

I'm really looking forward to these movies. I'm even starting to get excited for the new Hulk flick which I was against Marvel doing (I wanted Cap and Iron Man to be their first movies, we've already gotten Hulk once before and I still wonder if normal audiences will give this one a chance after seeing Hulk Poodle).
 
Ice said:
CBR:

"Sci Fi Wire has confirmed with Marvel's Kevin Feige that "The First Avenger: Captain America" will be a period piece set in World War 2, that Matthew McConaughey will not be considered for the part, that the star-shaped object on Tony Stark's workbench was part of Cap's shield..."




Thank goodness no McConaughey!!
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I like that its set entirely during WWII. This pretty much sets the Cap film up as merely the Avengers prequel it should be (and nothing more...).
 
New Cap rumours

http://movies.ign.com/articles/881/881582p1.html

Marvel is apparently eyeing Leonardo Dicaprio or Brad Pitt to Play Steve Rogers

They also claim to be considering Pitt for the part of Thor (in a one-or-the-other manner, not having the same actor play both characters

personally I don't see Dicaprio as Steve, I'm positive he could pull of Pre-Rebirth Steve, but as Cap himself I'm not sure

Pitt wouldn't be bad, but he could easily make a decent Thor aswell
 
Gemini said:
New Cap rumours

http://movies.ign.com/articles/881/881582p1.html

Marvel is apparently eyeing Leonardo Dicaprio or Brad Pitt to Play Steve Rogers

They also claim to be considering Pitt for the part of Thor (in a one-or-the-other manner, not having the same actor play both characters

personally I don't see Dicaprio as Steve, I'm positive he could pull of Pre-Rebirth Steve, but as Cap himself I'm not sure

Pitt wouldn't be bad, but he could easily make a decent Thor aswell
Click to expand...

I think Pitt would make an ideal Thor and DiCaprio would make a pretty decent Cap.
 
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