Captain America Movie

[SSJmole]

Personally though I kinda agree with you, I think the movie should in WWII for the first 20 minutes and then take place in the present. The first 20 minutes should be like the first issue of Ultimates, the only difference is Red Skull replaces Kleiser and the whole alien thing is left out.

That or I would do it where the WWII stuff is along as the bruce stuff was in begins. That way it really makes us feel for him when he wakes up in a new time and everything he ever knew is gone.

 

[The Overlord]

Agreed, Iw ould just add an action sequence before the opening credits of Cap liberating a concentration camp, than him in a meeting for the Ultimates mission

Well there is a matter of pacing, there is a lot of plot to get through in about 2 hours or 2 and half hours. You have to have the Ultimate mission where: cap fights a bunch of nazis, has a battle with the Red Skull in which he "thinks" the skull has died and then stops the nuke.

Then you have to have SHIELD bring back Cap, Nick Fury breifing Cap on a new threat and Sharon Carter as the love interest (also she would serve the same function as Wasp did in the ultimate comics, with her introduces cap to the modern world) ,Cap discovers the "new threat" is infact the Red Skull, who didn't really die and somehow is in the present and is sending assassins to kill Cap. Of course you also need the climax where cap foils the Skull and he dies for real.

The biggest problem for a Cap movie is it may not do well in other countries
a lot people in other countries would roll their eyes at movie called "Captain America".

Now would Bucky be alive and old, so cap could have someone to talk too about the war or would the Skull murder Bucky in the past so Cap has more reason to hate him and the Skull is established as an evil guy?

That or I would do it where the WWII stuff is along as the bruce stuff was in begins. That way it really makes us feel for him when he wakes up in a new time and everything he ever knew is gone.

How would that work? Sounds interesting, but I'm curious.

 

[SSJmole]

How would that work? Sounds interesting, but I'm curious.

Well the way I saw it at least half of begins was Bruce. So I figured for captain America if I was to do it I would let at least half be World War II. That we can focus on Steve the solider for longer before gets the super solider formula.


Then after he has it it is still World war II and we get invested in him been in that time period longer then when he get's frozen we think "wait a minute , Is he ok." as we forget that the next half is him coming to our time.

Then when he wakes up in the future (to him) we actually feel his pain and his loss as his friends and family will be all dead in what to him was like a split second.

Then after we establish this I would work on the whole he has stop the villain of this time.


Maybe it's a dumb idea that's just how I had it in my head.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Well the way I saw it at least half of begins was Bruce. So I figured for captain America if I was to do it I would let at least half be World War II. That we can focus on Steve the solider for longer before gets the super solider formula.


Then after he has it it is still World war II and we get invested in him been in that time period longer then when he get's frozen we think "wait a minute , Is he ok." as we forget that the next half is him coming to our time.

Then when he wakes up in the future (to him) we actually feel his pain and his loss as his friends and family will be all dead in what to him was like a split second.

Then after we establish this I would work on the whole he has stop the villain of this time.


Maybe it's a dumb idea that's just how I had it in my head.

It's not a dumb idea.

I could see it working. The whole WWII part plays for the first 15-20 minutes...and then when we have Cap stop the plane/missile/weapon and it explodes in midair---we see Cap falling and we cut to a Cap's POV shot of the the weapon falling and then him hitting the water and maybe a haunting image of Gail in the water's refelction....then everything goes blurry and blacking out.

Then all of a sudden the screen goes bright with operating table lights...a couple of heartbeat synched black flashes of Cap's jarring wake up and then finally him being restrained by 2 soldiers as doctors explain what happened (possibly thru a short flashback).

The whole thing could be done in 3rd person or first person POV. I'd do both and see what looks better in editting.

 

[SSJmole]

It's not a dumb idea.

I could see it working. The whole WWII part plays for the first 15-20 minutes...and then when we have Cap stop the plane/missile/weapon and it explodes in midair---we see Cap falling and we cut to a Cap's POV shot of the the weapon falling and then him hitting the water and maybe a haunting image of Gail in the water's refelction....then everything goes blurry and blacking out.

Then all of a sudden the screen goes bright with operating table lights...a couple of heartbeat synched black flashes of Cap's jarring wake up and then finally him being restrained by 2 soldiers as doctors explain what happened (possibly thru a short flashback).

The whole thing could be done in 3rd person or first person POV. I'd do both and see what looks better in editting.

Yeah that could work. What I meant might be a dumb idea was I wanted the WWII to be half the movie. So say it's 2 hrs WWII stuff = 1 hr. Another reason I felt that was needed was He was created around WWII real world wise.

I always felt his WWII ties were something as important to him as Uncle ben's death was to peter and felt it deserved half a film. Otherwise to me it's downplaying a huge important part of his life.


But having be half a movie like I said might be a dumb idea.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Oh....then yeah. Half the movie being in WWII is a dumb idea.

Not too dumb though. You could get away with about 30 minutes of the film during that era if you plan on establishing Red Skull as the villain then and now.

 

[Random]

Oh....then yeah. Half the movie being in WWII is a dumb idea.

Not too dumb though. You could get away with about 30 minutes of the film during that era if you plan on establishing Red Skull as the villain then and now.

Yeah, you can't do half because the point of the movie is a man out of time. The present setting has to be the majority of the movie

 

[The Overlord]

Well the way I saw it at least half of begins was Bruce. So I figured for captain America if I was to do it I would let at least half be World War II. That we can focus on Steve the solider for longer before gets the super solider formula.


Then after he has it it is still World war II and we get invested in him been in that time period longer then when he get's frozen we think "wait a minute , Is he ok." as we forget that the next half is him coming to our time.

Then when he wakes up in the future (to him) we actually feel his pain and his loss as his friends and family will be all dead in what to him was like a split second.

Then after we establish this I would work on the whole he has stop the villain of this time.


Maybe it's a dumb idea that's just how I had it in my head.

I don't think we need half the movie in WWII, a scene in the beginning with Cap and his army buddies on a plane heading towards the Red Skull's castle and then a scene in the present where he is at the National Cemetery, at Arlington, Virginia looking at the graves where his dead buddies lay.

As for the villain, they just need a scene in raid on the castle (taken from Ultimates issue 1) where Cap confronts the Red Skull as he is about launch the nuke at Washinton, they get into a fight, there as an explosion and Cap thinks he is dead. Perhaps a briefing at the begining to establish who the skull is.

Later in the present, somehow the Red Skull is still alive and the same age and has some plan to take over the world, possiblely involving the Skull corrupting elements of the US government and killing a bunch of innocent people in the process. That way you can establish the only that truly survived from Cap's WWII is the Red Skull and his legacy of evil.

Also general question who should play Cap, Red Skull, Bucky, Nick Fury, Sharon Carter, etc.

 

[bluebeast]

I don't think we need half the movie in WWII, a scene in the beginning with Cap and his army buddies on a plane heading towards the Red Skull's castle and then a scene in the present where he is at the National Cemetery, at Arlington, Virginia looking at the graves where his dead buddies lay.

As for the villain, they just need a scene in raid on the castle (taken from Ultimates issue 1) where Cap confronts the Red Skull as he is about launch the nuke at Washinton, they get into a fight, there as an explosion and Cap thinks he is dead. Perhaps a briefing at the begining to establish who the skull is.

Later in the present, somehow the Red Skull is still alive and the same age and has some plan to take over the world, possiblely involving the Skull corrupting elements of the US government and killing a bunch of innocent people in the process. That way you can establish the only that truly survived from Cap's WWII is the Red Skull and his legacy of evil.

Also general question who should play Cap, Red Skull, Bucky, Nick Fury, Sharon Carter, etc?

Go look at the Captain America dreamcasting thread.

 

[ourchair]

Hm, I wrote up this post last night, but turns out I didn't hit the post button.

I honestly don't know how I'd do a Capt America movie.

I'd have both costumes in the film. He'd have the classic 616 costume during the WWII portion....but once we transition to present day he'd sport the UU look.

It would be The Ultimates without the rest of The Ultimates.

SERIOUSLY.

Granted, a lot of things would have to be altered for the purposes of dramatic depth and to fill in some of the running time.

But basically:

Scrawny kid wants to join war. Scrawny kid joins Super-Soldier. America can't replicate the formula after Professor Reinstein is killed. But they make do with what they have. One Super-Soldier is STILL an advantage.

Then, Captain America is a media sensation on cereal boxes and radio serials and stuff. He becomes engaged to his high school sweetheart Gail. He's that guy who's gonna beat the Nazis and give Hitler a punch in the face. He's going to END the war all by himself.

The first act is basically hyping him up.

But what happens is that aliens are helping these Nazis under the leadership of Kleiser, so Cap's first mission is to go there and knock out some Flash Gordon tech. And he succeeds but gets frozen in ice. No more Cap. America fights the War without Cap. History proceeds as we know it.

But then a film-maker shooting a documentary out in the oceans finds Cap's body. It's the story of a lifetime, and he gets in touch with the government and they bring him back. So they bring him back, and the government tries to use Cap as a way to increase morale and confidence in American patriotism.

It doesn't work. Because no one cares about some guy who only existed in black and white newsreels, but never did anything. He was supposed to save the world, but he never did, so he IS a faerie tale myth, regardless of the fact that he actually exists. He's the hero tale that never came to be.

I haven't figured out how the third act finishes, but basically the aliens come back. Their first re-appearance should be second act finisher material where Captain America finds himself in an isolated area --- perhaps a heavily fortified building of some kind --- and he uses his leadership to get the small number of guards to kick them in their slimy behinds.

It's a big media event, like I dunno, the aliens are holding the President hostage or some important dignitary or tourists visiting Alcatraz and although a lot of casualties ensue, Cap defeats the odds... perhaps with only a few security guards at his side.

So somewhere from there, we get a third act in which the aliens stage a major invasion for some reason or another and then Cap uses his awesome inspiringness and great tactics to beat the aliens and then blah blah fight Kleiser, A does not stand for France etc etc etc.

Basically Cap wakes up to become Braveheart. By that I mean, a single figure inspiring ordinary warriors to send a superior force running. Only he doesn't die in the end. All this is meant to play against the fact that Cap finally becomes the hero he never got to be in the 40s.

That's my rough pitch.

 

[Fuzzy Birds]

Hm, I wrote up this post last night, but turns out I didn't hit the post button.

It would be The Ultimates without the rest of The Ultimates.

SERIOUSLY.

Granted, a lot of things would have to be altered for the purposes of dramatic depth and to fill in some of the running time.

But basically:

Scrawny kid wants to join war. Scrawny kid joins Super-Soldier. America can't replicate the formula after Professor Reinstein is killed. But they make do with what they have. One Super-Soldier is STILL an advantage.

Then, Captain America is a media sensation on cereal boxes and radio serials and stuff. He becomes engaged to his high school sweetheart Gail. He's that guy who's gonna beat the Nazis and give Hitler a punch in the face. He's going to END the war all by himself.

The first act is basically hyping him up.

But what happens is that aliens are helping these Nazis under the leadership of Kleiser, so Cap's first mission is to go there and knock out some Flash Gordon tech. And he succeeds but gets frozen in ice. No more Cap. America fights the War without Cap. History proceeds as we know it.

But then a film-maker shooting a documentary out in the oceans finds Cap's body. It's the story of a lifetime, and he gets in touch with the government and they bring him back. So they bring him back, and the government tries to use Cap as a way to increase morale and confidence in American patriotism.

It doesn't work. Because no one cares about some guy who only existed in black and white newsreels, but never did anything. He was supposed to save the world, but he never did, so he IS a faerie tale myth, regardless of the fact that he actually exists. He's the hero tale that never came to be.

I haven't figured out how the third act finishes, but basically the aliens come back. Their first re-appearance should be second act finisher material where Captain America finds himself in an isolated area --- perhaps a heavily fortified building of some kind --- and he uses his leadership to get the small number of guards to kick them in their slimy behinds.

It's a big media event, like I dunno, the aliens are holding the President hostage or some important dignitary or tourists visiting Alcatraz and although a lot of casualties ensue, Cap defeats the odds... perhaps with only a few security guards at his side.

So somewhere from there, we get a third act in which the aliens stage a major invasion for some reason or another and then Cap uses his awesome inspiringness and great tactics to beat the aliens and then blah blah fight Kleiser, A does not stand for France etc etc etc.

Basically Cap wakes up to become Braveheart. By that I mean, a single figure inspiring ordinary warriors to send a superior force running. Only he doesn't die in the end. All this is meant to play against the fact that Cap finally becomes the hero he never got to be in the 40s.

That's my rough pitch.

But America versus aliens was already done in Independence Day. Sounds fine, but I really don't think the alien element should be in this at all. It can only be Red Skull. Skulls body is preserved after WWII by his legion. When Cap resurfaces, Skull is resurrected with more power by using Caps DNA. Or something.

 

[ourchair]

But America versus aliens was already done in Independence Day.

And Independence Day was eleven years ago.

Sounds fine, but I really don't think the alien element should be in this at all. It can only be Red Skull. Skulls body is preserved after WWII by his legion. When Cap resurfaces, Skull is resurrected with more power by using Caps DNA. Or something.

I think the best way to deal with Red Skull is to reinvent him totally. Not that I have a clue right now. But it definitely doesn't involve infusing him with Cap's DNA.

As for alien elements, I'm thinking of this story as one where Cap failed to have a place in one Great War of the 20th Century... one that was unambiguously black and white --- the EVIL NAZIS and their Axis Buddies vs Everybody Else --- and in order to resolve that angst, Cap gets placed in another unambiguously black and white war and the only way for a cinematic army to be unambiguously EVIL is if it were aliens not Afghaniraqistanis.

And the entire conflict is basically Cap's second chance to be the hero he was supposed to be.

 

[Random]

Here's my vision of A good Cap film

Act 1

The movie opens with a concentration camp which Cap and the Allies liberate. I picture Cap looking very close to his WWII look in the Ultimates, even with the same shield. Bucky is the same as in the UU, his hometown buddy, side kick, and photographer. This scene demonstrates his position as leader and inspiring figure. Taking place in the closing days of the war in Europe, Cap is a huge source of moral, soldiers write home about their experience with the captain and new reels giving hope to people at home. After this is the opening credits and we see a flash back to Cap's recruitmet, operation rebirth, and him receiving his title. Then we cut state-side with Cap and Gail walking the town, he has only one day vacation before they send him out again. We see how his life is, a look into his background, and what he wishes for the future.

After this we go to a mission breifing, the nazi's are all but defeated, there is just one last strong hold that houses the last main force of the nazi army and intelligence suggest a super weapon. This is to be Cap's last mission in Europe, they give him a new round shield (I'm thinking its origin is the same as 616 a super medal made by accident). He likes it. We also get a background on the red skull, who was a general who underwent a procedure to splice his genes with Caps. He gains super strength but his skin gets deformed. I picture him looking kinda like Kiesler with a scarred face and strange slightly red skin.

We then see the seige of the castle, which has been foritfide, simular to the opening in the Ultimates. The secret weapon turns out to be a big ****ing plane, with enough firepower to level a city (I'm picturing the planes in JLU's The Savage Time). The Red Skull boards it and initiates emergency lift off. The Cap takes all the explosives his team has and jumps on. The Planes plan is to fly across the artic circle and destroy London, moving on to DC. This plane is the nazi's last resort because it pretty much eats up all their resources. Cap rigs the ship to blow at a certain time. He fights his way to the bridge to final stop the Red Skull. RS absolutely hates Cap, he sees him as the cause of his disfigurement. They have a fight and just when Skull gets the upperhand the explosives go off and RS grudgingly abandons ship with the last parachute, swearing it isn't over. Cap jumps out aiming for the ocean, but just as he does an explosion goes off knocking him out. The scene of him in the water is similar to Ultimates.

Act 2

Cap is found and immediately taken into shield custody on and aircraft carrier, maybe hinting at a helicarrier. I picture Cap waking up like in Ultimate Avengers, I really like the moment he sees New York City and asks if we won. Cap doesn't know how to take it, he is having huge time trying to remember its not the 1940's, we have the scene with Bucky and Gail and him at a graveyard. Nick Fury assigns Agent Carter to help him. The world is in a roar over the return of Captain America, everybody is discussing him, all kinds of political groups want him as a spokesman but he doesnt understand anything. Everything is too different and the world is in too much of a hurry to use him, he doesn't know what to do with himself. Fury want his help with the Red Skull.

At the end of the war RS set up an underground organization to rebel and reclaim Germany, but as time went on that became more unlikely and the organization became more criminal and grew, but Skull never gave up on a plan to overtake or at least give revenge to the Allies. Skull's condition has gotten worse, he requires weekly injections to keep himself stable. As a result his head lost all his hair and he face turned very red and deformed, but he retains incredible stamina. After hearing about the return of Cap he smiles for he gets another chance to kill him himself, and pushes forward a plan he's been saving. Working as Shield feels right for Cap, back in the military away from the craziness the world has become. Fury makes it clear he doesn't expect Cap to go into the field. He wants Cap only to help figure out the situation. They know Skull is working on something more global than just criminal activities. Sam Wilson if lead tech on the team, I picture him being just like the UU, and have him comment his wings are ready for testing. After a rocky start him and Cap becomes good friends, a Sam shows him something Fury didn't want to. A new costume, just like the UU's, Fury intended to get a new Captain America once they cracked the SS formula, but Fury has no intention of bringing Steve Back because he feels he shouldn't push Cap into fight his wars.

Act 3

I'm not sure what Skull's plan should be but it should be something global, I think a mixture of definite attacks all at once, conventional/biological/Chemical/computer virsus's/etc. against different military instillations, crippling the US's military. The Red Skull isn't interested in conquest, but annhilation. I think he should find his way into a US missile silo wanting to use America nuclear weapons against it self and televise himself across the globe as he does it. the Shield facility Cap and crew is under attack but the tides turn when Cap puts on the new suit and kicks ***. Maybe now the aircraft carrier reveals its a helicarrier and flies to Skulls location.

Cap, Carter, and Falcon leads the charge into the military based. Fury stays on the carrier ready to take out any missile fired. It will all come down to Cap and Skull in a final fight that is televised all around the world. Everyone watches this historic fight between two legends of WWII. Cap final wins and kills Red Skull as Falcon stops anymore nuclear missiles from launching. The world recovers from the attack and Cap now learns his place in this new world, to protect not only America, but the world.











... Or something like that. I can't really think of any good sequel, maybe just have the Avenger's movie focus on him. (I have ideas for that too)

 

[The Overlord]

And Independence Day was eleven years ago.

I think the best way to deal with Red Skull is to reinvent him totally. Not that I have a clue right now. But it definitely doesn't involve infusing him with Cap's DNA.

As for alien elements, I'm thinking of this story as one where Cap failed to have a place in one Great War of the 20th Century... one that was unambiguously black and white --- the EVIL NAZIS and their Axis Buddies vs Everybody Else --- and in order to resolve that angst, Cap gets placed in another unambiguously black and white war and the only way for a cinematic army to be unambiguously EVIL is if it were aliens not Afghaniraqistanis.

And the entire conflict is basically Cap's second chance to be the hero he was supposed to be.

Nothing changes the fact though, that the Red Skull is a much better villain than Kleiser. The evil of third Riech was human evil, having aliens as the power behind the Nazis kinda cheapens how evil they were supposed to be. Alien Nazis are fine for comics, but they would silly on screen. No the evil of nazi Germany should be symbolized by a very evil human being, not an alien.

Kleiser was just following orders from his alien masters, the Skull enjoyed his work, sought to overthrow Hitler and has tried to take over the world many times on his own. The Skull is scarier than Kleiser because he represents human evil, which Kleiser cannot. A human doing evil things is far realistic and scarey than an alien doing it. Besides most comic book fans consider the Skull to be Cap's nemesis, not Kleiser. The Skull is Cap's Lex luthor.

No, the Skull has to be the main villain, he outclasses Kleiser in almost every respect. Besides aliens in a Cap movie would be silly, Cap should fight human tyranny, not aliens.

A Cap movie should take aspects from both the Ultimate and 616 universes. the movie intro should be like the first issue of Ultimates, Sharon Carter could play a role similar to Ultimate Wasp (love interest/introducing him to the present), but the Skull would be the vilain.

 

[ourchair]

Nothing changes the fact though, that the Red Skull is a much better villain than Kleiser. The evil of third Riech was human evil, having aliens as the power behind the Nazis kinda cheapens how evil they were supposed to be. Alien Nazis are fine for comics, but they would silly on screen. No the evil of nazi Germany should be symbolized by a very evil human being, not an alien.

Kleiser was just following orders from his alien masters, the Skull enjoyed his work, sought to overthrow Hitler and has tried to take over the world many times on his own. The Skull is scarier than Kleiser because he represents human evil, which Kleiser cannot. A human doing evil things is far realistic and scarey than an alien doing it. Besides most comic book fans consider the Skull to be Cap's nemesis, not Kleiser. The Skull is Cap's Lex luthor.

No, the Skull has to be the main villain, he outclasses Kleiser in almost every respect. Besides aliens in a Cap movie would be silly, Cap should fight human tyranny, not aliens.

A Cap movie should take aspects from both the Ultimate and 616 universes. the movie intro should be like the first issue of Ultimates, Sharon Carter could play a role similar to Ultimate Wasp (love interest/introducing him to the present), but the Skull would be the vilain.

You're talking like I actually think Kleiser is a better villain than The Red Skull.

I don't.

 

[The Overlord]

You're talking like I actually think Kleiser is a better villain than The Red Skull.

I don't.

I just wasn't sure why you were suggesting Kleiser as the villain instead of the Skull, that's all. I was just curious.

Plus I don't see how Nazi aliens would work on screen.

 

[ourchair]

I just wasn't sure why you were suggesting Kleiser as the villain instead of the Skull, that's all. I was just curious.

Plus I don't see how Nazi aliens would work on screen.

I said the aliens were helping the Nazis. Not alien Nazis.

But I wouldn't mind a movie that had alien Nazis either.

 

[The Overlord]

Aliens helping Nazis. Not alien Nazis.

But I wouldn't mind a movie that had alien Nazis either.

Nah, aliens would be a threat for the Ultimates/Avengers, Cap on his own should fight human beings and more realistic threats to freedom, like tyranny and terrorism, evils found in the real world. I think Cap fighting a really evil human beings like the Red Skull, would be far more interesting than Cap fighting aliens. Plus making aliens the power behind the third Reich kinda takes away from how evil the Nazis were supposed to be, IMO.

Cap fighting aliens worked in the Ultimates comics, but it would seem silly in a solo Cap movie.

 

[Random]

Cap fighting aliens worked in the Ultimates comics, but it would seem silly in a solo Cap movie.

Fighting Aliens who were in leagued with the nazis is a very silly concept, its pretty amazing that it worked in Ultimates. I doubt it would work in a movie

 

[ourchair]

Plus making aliens the power behind the third Reich kinda takes away from how evil the Nazis were supposed to be, IMO.

Millar and Hitch made it pretty clear that the aliens don't make the Nazis any less evil than they were in real history because they weren't the power behind the Third Reich.

It's not like they manipulated the events at the Beer Hall Putsch or controlled politics or anything like that. The idea is that they gave technological support to an undeniably fascist movement, because the Chitauri believed in encouraging humanity to turn upon itself.

The events of Ultimate 2 basically said that having failed the notion of 'covert destruction' they would now turn to 'overt annihilation'. So no, it doesn't lessen the evil of Nazism.

That kind of interpretation of sci-fi historical revisionist literature is like saying writing a story where self-aware cyborgs from the 23rd century gave white supremacists ray guns makes the white supremacists less evil.

Nah, aliens would be a threat for the Ultimates/Avengers, Cap on his own should fight human beings and more realistic threats to freedom, like tyranny and terrorism, evils found in the real world. I think Cap fighting a really evil human beings like the Red Skull, would be far more interesting than Cap fighting aliens.

Cap fighting aliens worked in the Ultimates comics, but it woulld seem in a solo Cap movie.

As I've already said, the Red Skull is fundamentally a more interesting villain than Kleiser. But while a villain DOES make a hero, it doesn't necessarily follow that a villain makes the story. And the idea of the hypothetical story I've written out here is not that the villain himself is interesting or well-characterized, but that the villain (Kleiser) exists ENTIRELY to be subservient to the hero's character development.

Yes, there ARE stories where a good villain WILL help develop a character without being subservient to the plot. But THIS is not THAT story. Surely, you've read more than one Batman or Spider-Man comic in which the villain was a throwaway device who existed solely to define the hero for that story arc.

Sometimes you just don't NEED the multi-dimensional well-developed villain (Red Skull) for certain kinds of stories. Not ALL stories. Just certain ones. The opposite is true, sometimes you CAN'T use the throwaway villain (Kleiser) in certain stories. Surely you can appreciate that storytelling dichotomy.