Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined)

[DIrishB]

I just started this show and holy sweet jesuscakes is this good.

Enjoy it man. Like I said, Season 1 is ALL good. It gets a little bumpy during Season 2 (the filler episodes were lacking), but there are also some really excellent episodes (Pegasus). Season 3 gets better overall, but still suffers from the curse of the occasional filler. The vast majority of Season 4 so far has been great also.

 

[Bass]

I just started this show and holy sweet jesuscakes is this good.

Season 1 is pretty fantastic all the way through. Season 2 is a bit shaky at places. Season 3 has three good episodes and the rest is ENTERPRISE bad. It's so bad, I can't be bothered to check out Season 4.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I am sad, then, having finished the first season, which was so very good...

 

[DIrishB]

Season 1 is pretty fantastic all the way through. Season 2 is a bit shaky at places. Season 3 has three good episodes and the rest is ENTERPRISE bad. It's so bad, I can't be bothered to check out Season 4.

Oh come on, Season 3 was not that bad. The first four episodes involving them leaving the planet were fun and moved at a steady pace. I enjoyed Unfinished Business, and A Day in the Life was excellent. The last three episodes were all stellar as well. In my opinion, about half of Season 3 is definitly worth watching, the other half I could do without.

I am sad, then, having finished the first season, which was so very good...

Bass is being overly harsh. Season 3 had a lot of problems, but I don't think its fair to compare it to Enterprise. And as I said, it still had some really good, stand-out episodes.

 

[Bass]

I am sad, then, having finished the first season, which was so very good...

Yeah. There's still some top episodes coming your way like "Scar" and "Pegasus" but... yeah.

Oh come on, Season 3 was not that bad. The first four episodes involving them leaving the planet were fun and moved at a steady pace. I enjoyed Unfinished Business, and A Day in the Life was excellent. The last three episodes were all stellar as well. In my opinion, about half of Season 3 is definitly worth watching, the other half I could do without.

It took four episodes to resolve the season 2 cliffhanger? I thought it was two.

*ahem*

There are five good episodes in season 3. That is all.

I mean it. With the exception of Baltar's sub-plots (but no episode on it's own does enough) there's nothing remotely entertaining in the season except for the episode with the labour dispute.

This is why I think so: The show began being about the last survivors and refugees of a genocidal ambush by the Cylons. And it focused on them surviving this incredibly harsh world of open space, hunted by unstoppable robot monsters who become more powerful every time the humans manage to defeat them. They had to run continuous drills to fight the Cylons. They had to do tests to work out who the Cylon models were. They had to find water. They had to keep their fighters running. They had to make sure their FTL drives were always working because an attack could come at any time. They had to make sure the entire fleet new the new FTL coordinates or they'd be lost FOREVER. They had to prepare for the eventuality that generations of humans will be born on the ships and that there are professions that are suffering from a manpower shortage (like doctors).

And somehow, the writers got bored with this and decided to focus on a bull**** 'destiny' storyline where they forgot the Cylons were the villains, spent ages talking about a plan and foreshadowing events that they hadn't even thought to write yet (final five I'm looking at you). They started chickening out of the harsh promise giving the characters ludicrous Star Trek morality where they think it's okay to keep genocidal monsters alive in a position of power over themselves (how is Boomer STILL ALIVE?!?!). It's total rubbish. Every time the humans decide to be 'morally superior' (merciful) to the Cylons it only makes them seem stupid and the Cylons weaker because the humans can AFFORD to appease them.

No. Cylons eradicated twelve planets of human life. It went from BILLIONS to a couple of thousand. You do not negotiate. You run the **** away and if they come after you, you pull their ****ing eyes out. Especially if you live in a refugee camp led by a MILITARY COMMANDER WHOSE LAST MILITARY ASSIGNMENT WAS FIGHTING THE CYLONS. *pant pant pant*

It's so fundamentally flawed and contrived it pisses me off. Because in the first season, there's HINTS of this hack stupidity, but it's slight. As the show continues, this becomes more and more so until you realise your watching VOYAGER. It's the same ******* show. It just has better SFX.

Bass is being overly harsh. Season 3 had a lot of problems, but I don't think its fair to compare it to Enterprise. And as I said, it still had some really good, stand-out episodes.

Sorry, but to me, in three seasons, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA went from FIREFLY-good to VOYAGER/ENTERPRISE-bad. All those mistakes STAR TREK spin-offs do - it's guilty of them all.

 

[DIrishB]

Yeah. There's still some top episodes coming your way like "Scar" and "Pegasus" but... yeah.



It took four episodes to resolve the season 2 cliffhanger? I thought it was two.

*ahem*

There are five good episodes in season 3. That is all.

I mean it. With the exception of Baltar's sub-plots (but no episode on it's own does enough) there's nothing remotely entertaining in the season except for the episode with the labour dispute.

This is why I think so: The show began being about the last survivors and refugees of a genocidal ambush by the Cylons. And it focused on them surviving this incredibly harsh world of open space, hunted by unstoppable robot monsters who become more powerful every time the humans manage to defeat them. They had to run continuous drills to fight the Cylons. They had to do tests to work out who the Cylon models were. They had to find water. They had to keep their fighters running. They had to make sure their FTL drives were always working because an attack could come at any time. They had to make sure the entire fleet new the new FTL coordinates or they'd be lost FOREVER. They had to prepare for the eventuality that generations of humans will be born on the ships and that there are professions that are suffering from a manpower shortage (like doctors).

And somehow, the writers got bored with this and decided to focus on a bull**** 'destiny' storyline where they forgot the Cylons were the villains, spent ages talking about a plan and foreshadowing events that they hadn't even thought to write yet (final five I'm looking at you). They started chickening out of the harsh promise giving the characters ludicrous Star Trek morality where they think it's okay to keep genocidal monsters alive in a position of power over themselves (how is Boomer STILL ALIVE?!?!). It's total rubbish. Every time the humans decide to be 'morally superior' (merciful) to the Cylons it only makes them seem stupid and the Cylons weaker because the humans can AFFORD to appease them.

No. Cylons eradicated twelve planets of human life. It went from BILLIONS to a couple of thousand. You do not negotiate. You run the **** away and if they come after you, you pull their ****ing eyes out. Especially if you live in a refugee camp led by a MILITARY COMMANDER WHOSE LAST MILITARY ASSIGNMENT WAS FIGHTING THE CYLONS. *pant pant pant*

It's so fundamentally flawed and contrived it pisses me off. Because in the first season, there's HINTS of this hack stupidity, but it's slight. As the show continues, this becomes more and more so until you realise your watching VOYAGER. It's the same ******* show. It just has better SFX.

You make many good points, as always, except for your last.

So in your opinion it'd have been better for the last 40,000 people alive in the universe (as far as they or we as the audience know) to have gone out in a tragically short-sighted blaze of glory? That plot-line was put to bed in the ****ing MINI-SERIES! The mission of Galactica was no longer war on the Cylons (they already lost it), but to keeping those last 40,000 or so humans alive. Its something Adama has wrestled with through the series because of the fact he's a military commander through and through, but Roslin as his counter balance has continued to drive home the point that his one and only mission is getting as many surviving humans to Earth as possible.

So, if negotiation, or even alliance with a rebel faction of Cylons, or acceptance of one who has repeatedly proven herself in carrying out the mission of helping humanity survive (Athena), are required to survive, it makes sense as far as I'm concerned. Could it have been done better? Absolutely. But in the end, I still think you're being overly critical.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. How isn't that being held up in the show?

Sorry, but to me, in three seasons, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA went from FIREFLY-good to VOYAGER/ENTERPRISE-bad. All those mistakes STAR TREK spin-offs do - it's guilty of them all.

Fair enough. But you and I both know once Season 4 is done, you'll give it a watch.

 

[Bass]

You make many good points, as always, except for your last.

So in your opinion it'd have been better for the last 40,000 people alive in the universe (as far as they or we as the audience know) to have gone out in a tragically short-sighted blaze of glory? That plot-line was put to bed in the ****ing MINI-SERIES! The mission of Galactica was no longer war on the Cylons (they already lost it), but to keeping those last 40,000 or so humans alive. Its something Adama has wrestled with through the series because of the fact he's a military commander through and through, but Roslin as his counter balance has continued to drive home the point that his one and only mission is getting as many surviving humans to Earth as possible.

So, if negotiation, or even alliance with a rebel faction of Cylons, or acceptance of one who has repeatedly proven herself in carrying out the mission of helping humanity survive (Athena), are required to survive, it makes sense as far as I'm concerned. Could it have been done better? Absolutely. But in the end, I still think you're being overly critical.

You misunderstood - I don't think they should necessarily go attacking Cylons (like the crew of the Pegasus or early-Adama did) - what I mean is that when you stumble upon a virus that will kill ALL THE CYLONS you don't NOT use it. You don't marry them and promote them to high-ranking positions on your sole battleship. Baltar got a huge trial thing - regular humans who HELPED Cylons got spaced - Boomer got promoted and Six was allowed to wear a cocktail dress in prison. Totally contradictory and it makes no sense.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. How isn't that being held up in the show?

My point was that they don't take desperate measures. Tigh and the rest of the secret tribunal didn't kill Boomer/Athena. They don't use the virus to kill the Cylons. Sometimes they'd do something awesome like water-board a cylon, but then they'd be all upset about it afterwards. Maybe I'm being overly critical - but the show, at the beginning, WAS really desperate. But when they went to the stupid destiny storyline, suddenly, the humans stopped doing desperate things and just confusedly stumbled through the episodes.

Fair enough. But you and I both know once Season 4 is done, you'll give it a watch.

I doubt it...

 

[DIrishB]

You misunderstood - I don't think they should necessarily go attacking Cylons (like the crew of the Pegasus or early-Adama did) - what I mean is that when you stumble upon a virus that will kill ALL THE CYLONS you don't NOT use it. You don't marry them and promote them to high-ranking positions on your sole battleship. Baltar got a huge trial thing - regular humans who HELPED Cylons got spaced - Boomer got promoted and Six was allowed to wear a cocktail dress in prison. Totally contradictory and it makes no sense.

I did misunderstand and completely agree. I'm not claiming the show is perfect, far from it. But it does have those occasional almost perfect episodes that for me forgive the terrible inconsistencies of the overall plot.

My point was that they don't take desperate measures. Tigh and the rest of the secret tribunal didn't kill Boomer/Athena. They don't use the virus to kill the Cylons. Sometimes they'd do something awesome like water-board a cylon, but then they'd be all upset about it afterwards. Maybe I'm being overly critical - but the show, at the beginning, WAS really desperate. But when they went to the stupid destiny storyline, suddenly, the humans stopped doing desperate things and just confusedly stumbled through the episodes.

This is something that Season 4 is solving though. It the most recent episode the Resurrection Hub for all Cylons was destroyed. This makes them mortal, unable to download into new bodies, etc. Of course, it is getting towards the end of the show, so its impact overall is definitly lessened. I don't know. I completely agree with what you're saying, but as I said, the good aspects the show has keep me watching. Even if the best aspect of a particular episode is the special effects/space battles.

As I said before, Battlestar Galactica has the best space battles of any TV or movie I've ever seen. ZOIC knows their craft, and "wow" me almost every week with their computer effects. The space effects of the season openers and finales are on par with big budget movies...or at least made to look that way. I'm entertained.

Yes, I have my issues with how the mythology/characters were handled at certain points, but I'm not going to give up completely on the show when I've enjoyed more of it than I've disliked.

I doubt it...

Seriously? You don't forgive easily, huh?

 

[Bass]

As I said before, Battlestar Galactica has the best space battles of any TV or movie I've ever seen. ZOIC knows their craft, and "wow" me almost every week with their computer effects. The space effects of the season openers and finales are on par with big budget movies...or at least made to look that way. I'm entertained.

That's cool that you're entertained - but I think FIREFLY had better effects (same guys I think) because it was in the daylight and you could see everything. And because I cared more. Good SFX is fine, but I find it a lot easier to forgive bad SFX than ****ty writing (hence, why I like TOS).

Seriously? You don't forgive easily, huh?

It's not a matter of 'forgiving' - I don't owe it to myself or the show to give it another shot. You get shows like FIREFLY and CRUSADE and DEADWOOD which barely get three seasons and work super-hard for each episode they do get - and then you get this show where they go, "okay, season 3 was crappy, but 4 is turning out okay". FIREFLY has fewer episodes than any one of Galactica's seasons. It's had it's fair chance with me. I'm done.

 

[DIrishB]

I disliked the "mid-season finale" that just aired. Spoilers abound, so if you're new to the show (DSF, Moony), I'd advise you don't click the spoilers.

Spoiler

So, the tenth episode of season 4 aired. They've spent the past several episodes tying up plot-lines that have been dangling since the beginning of the show. And they tied up the biggest one of all in this episode: it ended with them finding Earth, and landing on the planet (with the Cylons after a cheesy "truce"). The only problem is, its an Earth of an indeterminate future of our own, and the planet is devastated and irradiated. Earth has apparently been destroyed by nuclear war. At least, the city-like region they main characters landed by has been. I'm guessing they either discover portions of the planet that are safe and habitable in the remaining ten episodes airing next year, or spend those episodes searching for another habitable planet. Perhaps one that the surviving Earthlings themselves escaped to? Maybe...Earth 2!

DUN DUNN DUNNNNNN!!!!

But yeah, I was unimpressed. Very disappointing, as I had enjoyed the majority of this season so far. And now we have to wait at least 6 months to see the remaining ten episodes. I hate Sci-Fi Channel's mini-seasons. Well, not really, just right now, as I was extremely let down by the ending I was given that has to tide me over to 2009. Grrrrrrr.

 

[Jaggyd]

I disliked the "mid-season finale" that just aired. Spoilers abound, so if you're new to the show (DSF, Moony), I'd advise you don't click the spoilers.

Spoiler

So, the tenth episode of season 4 aired. They've spent the past several episodes tying up plot-lines that have been dangling since the beginning of the show. And they tied up the biggest one of all in this episode: it ended with them finding Earth, and landing on the planet (with the Cylons after a cheesy "truce"). The only problem is, its an Earth of an indeterminate future of our own, and the planet is devastated and irradiated. Earth has apparently been destroyed by nuclear war. At least, the city-like region they main characters landed by has been. I'm guessing they either discover portions of the planet that are safe and habitable in the remaining ten episodes airing next year, or spend those episodes searching for another habitable planet. Perhaps one that the surviving Earthlings themselves escaped to? Maybe...Earth 2!

DUN DUNN DUNNNNNN!!!!

But yeah, I was unimpressed. Very disappointing, as I had enjoyed the majority of this season so far. And now we have to wait at least 6 months to see the remaining ten episodes. I hate Sci-Fi Channel's mini-seasons. Well, not really, just right now, as I was extremely let down by the ending I was given that has to tide me over to 2009. Grrrrrrr.

HAHAHAHA!!!!


Stupidest show.... ever....


I swear to god, they're humping their M. Night Shamylan dolls going "oh... gods... twist!!"

 

[DIrishB]

HAHAHAHA!!!!


Stupidest show.... ever....


I swear to god, they're humping their M. Night Shamylan dolls going "oh... gods... twist!!"

The entire goal of the show, up in an atom bomb. I have zero hope they can pull off a suitable ending now.


And stupidest show ever...no, no way. Just from previews alone that goes to the new 90210.

This episode definitly qualifies, though.

 

[ProjectX2]

I have started watching this after skipping the mini-series. It is intriguing.

I have read some of the stuff that has been posted in this thread and have no idea what's going on. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

 

[Foolsfolly]

First half of it was awesome. The last half not so much.

 

[DIrishB]

I have started watching this after skipping the mini-series. It is intriguing.

I suggest watching the mini-series. It really helps establish the characters and explains a lot about why they are the way they are, as well as covers the Cylon annihilation of the Colonies...really good stuff.

I have read some of the stuff that has been posted in this thread and have no idea what's going on. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.

Probably good. Just watch the show and formulate your own opinion.

 

[Jaggyd]

First half of it was awesome. The last half not so much.

I have to admit, it helped me understand and actually feel sympathy for Tigh.


Then Edward James Olmos promptly hammed it up, and that kinda killed the moment for me.

 

[moonmaster]

I didn't think last night's episode was that bad.

Spoiler

The ending certainly had a big 'WTF' quality to it, (Moreso because of how quickly they find Earth rather than what Earth is like.) but the end of Season 2, with the one year later thing, had me just about as surprised.

And I've been predicting that there would be something wrong with Earth since I started watching the show. This is the "kill of thousands of people a week" show. They're not going to just find Earth and everything is going to be dandy.

 

[DIrishB]

I didn't think last night's episode was that bad.

Spoiler

The ending certainly had a big 'WTF' quality to it, (Moreso because of how quickly they find Earth rather than what Earth is like.) but the end of Season 2, with the one year later thing, had me just about as surprised.

And I've been predicting that there would be something wrong with Earth since I started watching the show. This is the "kill of thousands of people a week" show. They're not going to just find Earth and everything is going to be dandy.

I never expected Earth to be ok when they arrived. I expected something like this honestly. I think I just expected it to be handled differently in terms of how they got there. We get a deus ex machina moment with the Viper 3/4 of the way into the show pointing the way to Earth, and them landing on Earth. It just seemed last-minute and forced in terms of trying to tie in the Final Five...er, Four...or in the case of discovering the Viper, Three at the last minute.

I am interested to see how they approach finding a new planet in the remaining ten episodes. Wondering if they'll find portions of Earth that are habitable (unlikely given the nature of the show) or if they'll leave Earth to search for another habitable planet (possibly one the survivors of Earth, if there were any, might have fled to). I'm thinking they'll discover markers pointing the way, and we'll get a re-hash of them following those to their new home. It just seems like an unimaginative way of prolonging the story.



Didn't you just start watching the show? I remember you saying you had just started checking it out a little while ago. Did you already tear through all the seasons, or are you just glossing over them (watching certain episodes, ignoring others)?

 

[ProjectX2]

I did three Sudokus while watching an episode last night. It was definitely a boring one. I'll probably keep up with this series on DVD just because everyone says it's great, but I don't think I'll actively hunt down the rest of the episodes because I'm not that interested.

 

[moonmaster]

I never expected Earth to be ok when they arrived. I expected something like this honestly. I think I just expected it to be handled differently in terms of how they got there. We get a deus ex machina moment with the Viper 3/4 of the way into the show pointing the way to Earth, and them landing on Earth. It just seemed last-minute and forced in terms of trying to tie in the Final Five...er, Four...or in the case of discovering the Viper, Three at the last minute.

I am interested to see how they approach finding a new planet in the remaining ten episodes. Wondering if they'll find portions of Earth that are habitable (unlikely given the nature of the show) or if they'll leave Earth to search for another habitable planet (possibly one the survivors of Earth, if there were any, might have fled to). I'm thinking they'll discover markers pointing the way, and we'll get a re-hash of them following those to their new home. It just seems like an unimaginative way of prolonging the story.

They need some more cylon drama.

It would suck if everyone just hugs and makes up and that's it. I bet finding Earth as a big ****hole is going to cause them to turn back against each other.

I can't imagine how else anything interesting will happen in those last few episodes.

Didn't you just start watching the show? I remember you saying you had just started checking it out a little while ago. Did you already tear through all the seasons, or are you just glossing over them (watching certain episodes, ignoring others)?

Nope, I caught up on the whole show before Season 4 started.