Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Not Wiccan. Hulking.DIrishB said:
Avengers Young Avengers series discussion (spoilers)
- Thread starter Fredrik Martinsson
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Doc Comic
Well-Known Member
Anybody else think "Wiccan" sounds like a codename a 40-year-old guy would think up for a teenager? It's like "Oh, all teenagers are wiccans, so we're call him Wiccan to be hip and with it!"
And yes, it was a dare.
And yes, it was a dare.
compound
Well-Known Member
I see the logic in your reasoning, but so far, I'm willing to give Heinberg the benefit of the doubt, for the first year or so.Doc Comic said:
As it is, character development on the title has been generally slow-burn (especially in comparison with the multi-faceted and well-developed personalities of the Runaways), so if their "gayness" seems superficial or tacked-on, it's only because EVERYBODY has been framed in terms of one or two defining lifestyle characteristics. We just choose to focus on this angle more because it focuses on a group that's marginalized and/or under-represented in mainstream comics.
Give it a little time, I say, before we write it off altogether.
Yes, Marvel editorial just killed off Northstar (thrice in 2005, if you count alternate realities), so it does seem like fulfilling a quota. That's inevitable, when the small numbers of homosexual characters are so apparent.
But if we get dismissive every time a writer attempts to do address the variety of sexual orientations outside of a Vertigo or black-and-white independent title, nothing will ever change.
Doc Comic
Well-Known Member
Not just the gay members, but the whole title comes off as a huge PC comic. One black member, two gay members, and two women screams "We did this to be politically correct." It's like the Global Guardians or Planeteers all over again.
MoS
Well-Known Member
Doc Comic said:
Right, because the REAL world is only made up of straight white young males.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Doc Comic said:
I hated the homosexual conversation before but as long as Doc Comic includes the fact that other minorities are involved... I'm gonna definitely agree with him on this point.
Doc Comic
Well-Known Member
I never said that. (Boy, people love to put words in my mouth.)Rhyo said:
The whole thing comes off as a gigantic, generic, PC comic. The rich yuppie girl, the girl whose father was a hero, a gay alien, an outcasted (and slightly gothic) wiccan, and a black boy who lives in poverty (and is hinted at hating white people). I bet the next member will be a lesbian robot who wishes she could be human.
MoS
Well-Known Member
Doc Comic said:
Obviously I don't agree with you.
Statistically, we have three men and two women (and, umm, Vision, who doesn't count at this point). ONE of the 5 characters is non white. Two of them are gay. That's completely reasonable.
selfproclaimed
Well-Known Member
Doc Comic said:
ultimate vision perhaps?? (i haven't read any of the vision backstories...i just hate how she now looks)
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Doc Comic said:
It's worse than that.
Kate Bishop is the Michelle Rodriguez of the group. And automatically hooks up with the black guy. And I'm not racist but this obviously is gonna lead into the whole Rich White Girl/Poor Black Guy relationship (that's a stereotype in itself)
Teddy "The gay alien" - we just had it done in Runaways. What's it with aliens being gay? Where's doctor strangefate? My question is do you think it's symbolic of how homosexuals feel "alienated". Dead serious too.
Wiccan - I don't even know anything about him yet to comment. But is he asian or is that just lee's handywork.
Patriot - if anything isn't forced at all when by himself because his history is perfectly placed as the grandson of a former Prototype Captain America.
Cassie - Wouldn't change and/or question her in anyway either. She's pretty legit. Being pro-Avengers.
Vision/Iron Lad - Vision Jr. SUCKS!!! Don't forget about him either. They purposely made a junior version of Vision.
compound
Well-Known Member
Just because it seems like by-the-numbers diversity, that just underscores how StraightWhiteMale-oriented the rest of mainstream comics are. Of course it will stand out.
I'll be the first to admit that it feel less 'natural' here than it does in Runaways, because it hasn't been well-integrated into the storyline as seamlessly and subtly as it is in Vaughn's book.
Honestly, officially "outing" two gay teenage aliens in the span of three months does make me question what kind of editorial policy Marvel has in place.
But if they're given time to develop into two distinct characters -- Karolina already has a unique enough personality -- then I don't mind the demographic similarities, as it were, if it eventually means a long-term move from "diverse" characters being given special treatment, to being "just the way people are".
I'll be the first to admit that it feel less 'natural' here than it does in Runaways, because it hasn't been well-integrated into the storyline as seamlessly and subtly as it is in Vaughn's book.
Honestly, officially "outing" two gay teenage aliens in the span of three months does make me question what kind of editorial policy Marvel has in place.
But if they're given time to develop into two distinct characters -- Karolina already has a unique enough personality -- then I don't mind the demographic similarities, as it were, if it eventually means a long-term move from "diverse" characters being given special treatment, to being "just the way people are".
Guijllons
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, how many oriental male characters in comics don't know kung-fu?
We know that mainstream comics are set in America, but for all the attempts at widening the spectrum of ethnicities and cultures over the years it is, as compound said, white straight males. It's about time people stopped discussing it and accepting it as normal, because it's been around for long enough.
Perhaps though, the first exposure to aspects of society that is not this white straight whatever is through comics, so it does warrant question. But that's an individual matter, not a fault in the comic world.
Maybe.
We know that mainstream comics are set in America, but for all the attempts at widening the spectrum of ethnicities and cultures over the years it is, as compound said, white straight males. It's about time people stopped discussing it and accepting it as normal, because it's been around for long enough.
Perhaps though, the first exposure to aspects of society that is not this white straight whatever is through comics, so it does warrant question. But that's an individual matter, not a fault in the comic world.
Maybe.
compound
Well-Known Member
Every one that's written by Adrian Tomine, whose Optic Nerve absolutely ****ing rocks, and has the most brilliant, youthful inter-character dynamics (as nuanced as anything Vaughn has written), and pretty, clean linework, and spare, beautiful vignettes, and yeah, he draws pretty cute girls of the punk and indie rawkish variety. [/fanboy gushing]Guijllons said:
Damn, I've just been waiting for the right excuse to shamlessly plug Optic Nerve on a high-volume thread here, since I joined this site!
Seriously, folks, look him up. I mean it.
Guijllons
Well-Known Member
Now that's a recommendation and a half. I'm popping to the local (or not so local) comic shop this weekend. I intend to pick up at least 4 books I've never read as testers. This could well be one of them.compound said:
MoS
Well-Known Member
The only problem finding Tomine's Optic Nerve is that it isn't actually called Optic Nerve - not in the collections, anyway. 32 Stories, Sleepwalk and Other Stories and Summer Blonde are the major trades. Buy them in trades, because the issues come out MAYBE once a year, on no schedule at all.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
icemastertron said:
Ah ok. See what happens when you try to keep up with a title you don't actually read? Its tough. Ok, so Hulkling might be somehow related to Rick Jones/Genis?
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Not Rick Jones, or Genis. Mar-Vhel. But even than, can't say for sure. It was Fuzzybirds who said he does. We're just speculating on that, since it makes so much sense.DIrishB said:
Teddy's not a Skrull. Neither is Mar-Vhel.
Teddy's father died from cancer. Mar-Vhel died from cancer.
Teddy's "mom" said the queen told her to protect him. From the hatred of the Skrulls and the Kree, we can see why.
Skrull mom was called a traitor. Protecting a Kree, and taking orders from them is being a 'traitor' in the Skrull's eyes.
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DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
icemastertron said:
Aha, ok. Now I'm much less confused.
UltimateE said:
I agree.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Young Avengers Special #1 (OCT051998D; FOC 12/08/05) will now contain 48 pages instead of 32 pages, will retail for $3.99 instead of $2.99, and has an adjusted ship date of December 28 instead of December 21.
