Why I Hate Superman

That article doesn't work because it's trying to argue about whether the concept of Superman works or not. The concept of "Superman" is ridiculously broad--it's like trying to argue about whether or not King Arthur is a good character. Any concept or character can be a good or bad story depending on who's producing it.

For every point in that article, for every example, there's an equally valid counterpoint, and a counter-counterpoint, and so on. That's because Superman has been interpreted and reinterpreted and turned inside out and upside down. Imagine arguing about whether or not Hercules is a good character. Not Marvel Herc, not myth Herc, just every story and character called "Hercules". It's insane.

Superman isn't a character. If you're feeling generous, he's a myth. If you're not, he's a brand name.

You have to judge Superman on an interpretation-to-interpretation basis. Morrison and Quitely's interpretation is brilliant. The interpretation of some others, isn't.
 
Of course he has physical faults. They're limited, but they're there.

And as far as serious psychological or emotional faults go, name one big fault that Spider-Man or Batman are portrayed as having. The only time they're given any real faults is when Spider-Man is being written all emo and when Batman is being written by Frank Miller or some Frank Miller rip-off. And they usually suck in those situations. Because they're ****ing superheroes and superheroes aren't real people. You don't have to identify with a superhero as some deeply flawed and troubled human being.
 
moonmaster said:
Of course he has physical faults. They're limited, but they're there.

And as far as serious psychological or emotional faults go, name one big fault that Spider-Man or Batman are portrayed as having. The only time they're given any real faults is when Spider-Man is being written all emo and when Batman is being written by Frank Miller or some Frank Miller rip-off. And they usually suck in those situations. Because they're ****ing superheroes and superheroes aren't real people. You don't have to identify with a superhero as some deeply flawed and troubled human being.
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I would say that guilt is a huge emotional and psychological fault that spider-man has. He has had numerous battles where he has gotten is butt kicked and he though about hanging up his tights, but he doesn't. Why, because of some sense of duty? no, because he is still plagued by guilt, as he utters over and over, "with great blah blah blah."

batman was scarred for life due to the killing of his parents in front of him, that is by all means a psychological and emotional crutch that he hobbles with every day of his life.

For the most part, they dont fall into these pits, but every once and a while, you see they both have the faults that run continuously, its part of who they are

and batman isnt a superhero, he has no superpowers, just money, karate, and gadgets, but thats another thread for another day. He is by all means a hero though
 
Mattimeo84 said:
I would say that guilt is a huge emotional and psychological fault that spider-man has. He has had numerous battles where he has gotten is butt kicked and he though about hanging up his tights, but he doesn't. Why, because of some sense of duty? no, because he is still plagued by guilt, as he utters over and over, "with great blah blah blah."
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But it's still not really a fault. It's just a motivation. Superman does what he does because he understands that it would be selfish not too, given the gifts he has. It's just a motivation.
batman was scarred for life due to the killing of his parents in front of him, that is by all means a psychological and emotional crutch that he hobbles with every day of his life.
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And Batman does what he does because otherwise he wouldn't be sane. I've always disliked the tendency to portray Batman as mentally off-balance, that he's living under the crushing weight of his parents' death.

Batman is far saner than any normal person.
and batman isnt a superhero, he has no superpowers, just money, karate, and gadgets, but thats another thread for another day. He is by all means a hero though
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Yes, he is a superhero.

He's in the Justice League.
 
moonmaster said:
Of course he has physical faults. They're limited, but they're there.
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You're right. He's so invincible and unstoppable that...

No wait. He doesn't have any.
And as far as serious psychological or emotional faults go, name one big fault that Spider-Man or Batman are portrayed as having. The only time they're given any real faults is when Spider-Man is being written all emo and when Batman is being written by Frank Miller or some Frank Miller rip-off. And they usually suck in those situations. Because they're ****ing superheroes and superheroes aren't real people. You don't have to identify with a superhero as some deeply flawed and troubled human being.
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Batman doesn't have emotional issues? He has abandonment issues stemming from his parent's death, he is completely unable to maintain any emotional bonds to the point that he's driven away everyone that's ever tried to get close to him with the exception of his elderly butler and the current Robin (matter of time), and his crusade to avenge his parent's death borders on the psychotic.

Spider-man has a massive guilt trip that constantly hovers over his head.
 
moonmaster said:
But it's still not really a fault. It's just a motivation. Superman does what he does because he understands that it would be selfish not too, given the gifts he has. It's just a motivation.
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its a negative motivation for spider-man, he doesnt do it for a sense of right and wrong, he does it cause he screwed up with uncle ben. Hes not reminded of the good he did, hes reminded of when he screwed up. Thats a very bad psychological disorder.

And Batman does what he does because otherwise he wouldn't be sane. I've always disliked the tendency to portray Batman as mentally off-balance, that he's living under the crushing weight of his parents' death.

Batman is far saner than any normal person.
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He fights to prove he isn't insane? thats like someone drinking to prove they aren't an alcoholic.

Yes, he is a superhero.

He's in the Justice League.
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Jarvis is an Avenger, but he has no powers. belonging to a super-hero team does not in fact grant "super" status (there are many other heroes that could fit under this banner, batman is just the most obvious)

McCheese said:
You're right. He's so invincible and unstoppable that...

No wait. He doesn't have any.

Batman doesn't have emotional issues? He has abandonment issues stemming from his parent's death, he is completely unable to maintain any emotional bonds to the point that he's driven away everyone that's ever tried to get close to him with the exception of his elderly butler and the current Robin (matter of time), and his crusade to avenge his parent's death borders on the psychotic.

Spider-man has a massive guilt trip that constantly hovers over his head.
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i agree with all points, just got them in before i did
 
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You know, the SUPER-HERO is always going to win in the end anyway, so in essence every single one of them is unstoppable and invulnerable.

Superman gets his *** handed to him and he comes back in the end and wins just like everyone else.
 
McCheese said:
You're right. He's so invincible and unstoppable that...

No wait. He doesn't have any.
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KRYPTONITE.

MAGIC.

PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST ****ING STRONGER THAN HE IS.

I'm starting to think you've never read a Superman story.
Batman doesn't have emotional issues? He has abandonment issues stemming from his parent's death, he is completely unable to maintain any emotional bonds to the point that he's driven away everyone that's ever tried to get close to him with the exception of his elderly butler and the current Robin (matter of time), and his crusade to avenge his parent's death borders on the psychotic.
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When he's being written that way. And I, personally, think Batman sucks when he's being written that way.

Dark/tortured/psychotic Batman is stupid, pointless, and tired.
Mattimeo84 said:
He fights to prove he isn't insane? thats like someone drinking to prove they aren't an alcoholic.
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No, he fights because it's the only thing that keeps him sane.

For Batman, dressing up in a funny costume and beating people up is fulfilling. Batman, when written well, is a fairly close realization of what psychologists call self-actualization: someone who's living to their full personal potential.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
You know, the SUPER-HERO is always going to win in the end anyway, so in essence every single one of them is unstoppable and invulnerable.

Superman gets his *** handed to him and he comes back in the end and wins just like everyone else.
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while i agree on a basic level, i disagree that every single one of them is unstoppable and invulnerable. put up spider-man vs galactus...

they arent perfect, unstoppable or invulnerable, they are flawed; they all bleed, fail and get hurt. they just keep pushing on when the world tells them no. It's their perseverance and team work that wins out in the end...or the ultimate nullifier

i've got this book entitled "Superheroes and Philosophy"; its a great read, very helpful on this front.
 
Mattimeo84 said:
while i agree on a basic level, i disagree that every single one of them is unstoppable and invulnerable. put up spider-man vs galactus...

they arent perfect, unstoppable or invulnerable, they are flawed; they all bleed, fail and get hurt. they just keep pushing on when the world tells them no. It's their perseverance and team work that wins out in the end...or the ultimate nullifier

i've got this book entitled "Superheroes and Philosophy"; its a great read, very helpful on this front.
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Superman bleeds, fails, and gets hurt too.

In a Spider-Man comic book, Spider-Man would beat Galactus somehow.

Aunt May beat Galactus.
 
moonmaster said:
No, he fights because it's the only thing that keeps him sane.

For Batman, dressing up in a funny costume and beating people up is fulfilling. Batman, when written well, is a fairly close realization of what psychologists call self-actualization: someone who's living to their full personal potential.
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The sane argument is a cyclical argument, its flawed in its very nature. He does a questionable act to justify his own sanity. The drinks to keep sober is the exact same justification, its flawed.

Self-actualization is also defined as "They feel a closeness to other people, and generally appreciate life." Batman doesn't have this, as stated in previous posts.
 
moonmaster said:
KRYPTONITE.

MAGIC.

PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST ****ING STRONGER THAN HE IS.
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3 things.

Well that certainly makes for 80+ years of good stories.
I'm starting to think you've never read a Superman story.
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I've never read a Superman story that didn't suck. That's my complaint.
When he's being written that way. And I, personally, think Batman sucks when he's being written that way.

Dark/tortured/psychotic Batman is stupid, pointless, and tired.
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How else do you write someone who wears a cape and throws boomerangs at people?

He's insane. No matter how you write it, on some level, he's insane.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
Superman bleeds, fails, and gets hurt too.

In a Spider-Man comic book, Spider-Man would beat Galactus somehow.

Aunt May beat Galactus.
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Im not denying that superman bleeds, fails or gets hurt. I just stating that hero's aren't perfect.

The very nature of the avengers or the justice leauge is a group coming together to take down someone that an individual is not powerful enough to do alone. They are not perfect, no man is an island.

She did? when?
 
Mattimeo84 said:
Im not denying that superman bleeds, fails or gets hurt. I just stating that hero's aren't perfect.

The very nature of the avengers or the justice leauge is a group coming together to take down someone that an individual is not powerful enough to do alone. They are not perfect, no man is an island.

She did? when?
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Superman isn't perfect, though! And he's in the Justice League, which just goes to show he can't beat everything and he needs help sometimes.


I think it was a Marvel Team-Up issue or something during Assistant Editors Month when all kinds of whacky things happened. (apparently it was a dream, but Dazzler did beat Galactus in continuity)
 
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I didn't used to like Superman but it depends on who is writing him. For those who don't like him, which comics have you read?
 
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