Who makes for a better nemesis for Cap, Kleiser or the Red Skull?

[Random]

People thought it was him because Mark Millar said he was using Red Skull in the second arc of the series before it came out.

Does anybody know where the sources are for these comments, I remember reading something on Ultimates 3 and Millar saying he would of had either Red Skull or Doom. I'm getting tired of this back and forth of "I think" and I recall hearing"

 

[Ice]

Does anybody know where the sources are for these comments, I remember reading something on Ultimates 3 and Millar saying he would of had either Red Skull or Doom. I'm getting tired of this back and forth of "I think" and I recall hearing"

It was an interview he did with Wizard.

 

[The Overlord]

I'd never even heard of him.



You just wiki'd that, huh?



You said that already. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done.



Communism was also supposed to solve all the world's problems (social, economic, political, etc), yet failed to do so. Does this mean there's never been a Communist...EVER?]

Bt that's not the purpose of the red skull, the idea of the character is he supposed to be pure evil, he isn't some misguided guy who proves to improve things, but gets corrupted along the way, he is supposed to an evil SOB who takes delight in ruining people's lives and has no desire to improve the world. he is supposed to be pure evil, trather are a millin other commie villains who could fit the role you propose, why not use them and let the Skull remain evil, without any sort of idealism?

I
You have to apply a certain amount of realism to real life, man.




No, that'd mean ONE was on the team. And since that character's political views were not addressed, you're only assuming.



He fought one guy who was. The others were pretty much mindless beasts.



POINT...



SET...



MATCH.

Look, I just don't care for your idea, there are already a million other communist villains in the 616 universe who could serve that role, I would rather they do something a little more creative that honours the spirit of the character. The spirit of the character is that he is pure evil, so making a "misguided communist" kinda ignores that spirit, there are already a million other characters like that in the 616 universe.

 

[Bass]

While I've missed the discussion up to this point, I agree with The Overlord.

Red Skull shouldn't be "misguided" or "tragic" or anything. Which is why I think he works better as a Nazi. Nazis are almost a mythological boogeyman now, whereas you make him an Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist someone will compel you to make him "realistic" by explaining his "motivation" for being a terrorist so that non-terrorist Muslims (because they need to be coddled and are so few - apparently) don't become terrorists (which they do all the time).

So, because propaganda doesn't work like it used to due to global communication and the political hogwash crap that an Al-Qaeda Red Skull would create, I think Red Skull should be a Nazi.

Or like... a Caesar or Mongolian warlord.

Or... as Hitllar did - a LIGHTSABER wielding terrorist. When the villain is wielding a lightsaber and going, "The Great White Satan is dead" I got that pulp action feel-good feeling of the **** going down. It was like a Mingola Nazi. It was great.

 

[ourchair]

While I've missed the discussion up to this point, I agree with The Overlord.

Red Skull shouldn't be "misguided" or "tragic" or anything. Which is why I think he works better as a Nazi. Nazis are almost a mythological boogeyman now, whereas you make him an Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist someone will compel you to make him "realistic" by explaining his "motivation" for being a terrorist so that non-terrorist Muslims (because they need to be coddled and are so few - apparently) don't become terrorists (which they do all the time).

I too agree with this. I merely disagree with The Overlord SOLELY on the premise that somehow Communist villains are inherently of less storytelling value than Nazis.

That said, I've NEVER wanted Red Skull to be anything BUT a Nazi and I still fail to understand why WANTING Nazi villains should be somehow mutually exclusive of wanting Communist villains too.

Or... as Hitllar did - a LIGHTSABER wielding terrorist. When the villain is wielding a lightsaber and going, "The Great White Satan is dead" I got that pulp action feel-good feeling of the **** going down. It was like a Mingola Nazi. It was great.

Mignola Nazis are the best comic book Nazis.

 

[The Overlord]

I too agree with this. I merely disagree with The Overlord SOLELY on the premise that somehow Communist villains are inherently of less storytelling value than Nazis.

That said, I've NEVER wanted Red Skull to be anything BUT a Nazi and I still fail to understand why WANTING Nazi villains should be somehow mutually exclusive of wanting Communist villains too.

Mignola Nazis are the best comic book Nazis.

In never said, don't use any communist villains, I just said I wouldn't the Red Skull to be a communist. As I have pointed out there are other communists villains in 616 marvel who could be used for that purpose, so why change the Skull into one of those villains?

The skull doesn't have to be nazi, he has to be pure evil though, the Skull doesn't work as sympathetic charadcter, he is not the kind of guy wo just needs a hug. The Skull truly evil nature is core to his concept, so making him a misguided communist would be a mistkae, IMO.

Why not just use Ultimate Titanium Man or something, as a communist villain?

 

[Hellharlequin]

Personal ideas about the Red skull :

remember this

...we see two persons one person with a face like Kroenen unmasked(NOT showing his uniform)
and a guy in plain black uniform(whose face is not shown). the scarred guy says:
"baron don't let the weapons get into enemy hands.
give code: mornig star to our wonders."
"general new orders :Mornig star. Commander Skull should we not leave now?"
"Of course.Computer :formate all harddrives exept drive A."
suddenly all monitors show a multiheaded serpent. the scared guy leaves showing his red uniform followed by the baron (again not showing his face). ...

my idea is that The ultimate red skull shares some traits with one of his more unwillingMinions the Flag-smaher
to make it short: he is a disfigured, anarchistic(more the take-what-you.want one), sociopath who is also one of the heads of a secretive whom noone known their goals