Watchmen film discussion (Spoilers!)

[Doublehex]

AMERICA!!! :rockon:

This.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

This.

Does that have sort of secret meaning I don't know about, or are you just trying to confuse me? That's just one word, not a actual thought or sentence...

 

[Iceshadow]

This.

Does that have sort of secret meaning I don't know about, or are you just trying to confuse me? That's just one word, not a actual thought or sentence...

Wait that was it? I spent five minutes waiting for a picture to load when there wasn't one!?

 

[Doublehex]

Wait that was it? I spent five minutes waiting for a picture to load when there wasn't one!?

That.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

That.

:sure:

 

[J. Agamemnon]

well i finally saw it today and i gotta say im pretty pleased with the movie. granted nowhere near as good as the novel but as a movie it held it's own. i don't think silk spectre is as bad as most people think, but she is hugely overshadowed by better artists of the craft. Rorscach was frikkin intense.

"You forget! I'm not in here with you! You're in here with ME!"

I loved that part. I think if there were an extra thirty minutes to elaborate on the characters, that might have helped the movie out a little more. maybe flesh out some more details. And the ending, it kinda left a sour taste in my mouth.

Still, i felt like wasn't as easily accessible to non-comic goers as it was to us comic nerds. i mean we know exactly what's going to happen before it does so we have expectations going in whether we know it or not, let alone willing to admit it. It's hard to really express but i feel if i hadn't read the book, i might not have been able to follow the story as well and know where it's taking me. but having read the book, you've pretty much spoiled the ending for yourself anyhow.

it was awesome. the ending blew. The bullet catch was lackluster when in the book, he was amazed at his own feat. you don't get that in the movie. it's like he's just so calm about it and i felt let down by that because you can't sympathize with that and veidt had a redeeming characteristic at the end of the book. he had like an almost naivete feeling after he saved the world and had no idea where to go from there. in the movie it's like he keeps proving how awesome he is and seems pretty unremarkable about it. his scrawniness annoyed me as well. his voice was good however and that saved him to an extent. I didn't mind the blue penis...up until i noticed how often i caught myself staring at it. then it annoyed me. the owl ship sex scene was hot and made me want to hump something. i hit it when i got home. and i hit it hard. HARD!

It wasn't the Dark Knight, but it's pretty close. Fun movie, but nowhere near as good as the comic.

 

[Gemini]

I think this film could have benefitted from the Kill Bill treatment, split the story in half to give the ending proper room to breath.

Then they could have a sequel, without actually having a sequel. Get more $$.

Everybody wins.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

"I DID IT!"
-- Ozymandias


"I DID IT!........Kinda."
-- Zack Snyder


And it's true. Other than giving us fanboys a 12-episode miniseries on HBO, with verbatim script, plot, and details…this is the best onscreen Watchmen we're ever gonna see in our lifetime. For good or for bad.

Zack Snyder DID deliver to us Watchmen…but it was not Alan Moore's Watchmen. Instead, it was Zack Snyder's "homage", if you will, to Alan Moore's Watchmen. Yes he changed the opening. Yes he changed the ending. Yes he changed some things in the middle. But you know what…with the exception of a few minor quibbles I had, I loved it.

At times it felt like I was watching Watchmen come to life, and at times I felt like I was watching Zack Snyder do a repeat of 300 and The Matrix. I mean for anyone to say they hated the opening credits, is just plain stupid. I mean that. Whether you liked the film or hated it, I know blatant name-calling and whatnot is prohibited here…but if you can stand here and say you didn't like the opening credits, well then….**** you retard! Yeah, I said it. And I meant it.

On one hand you have the beautiful creation of Dr. Manhattan reassembling himself for the first time after the accident…….and on the other hand you have Silk Spectre kicking a thug clear across an alley just by kicking him in the calf. Sometimes you gotta take the good with the bad.

Everyone here has valid points and opinions, but one I'd like to specifically call out is MWOF's statement that Alan Moore should bow down and kiss Snyder's feet.

People-----MWOF has a point. Seriously.

Alan Moore should thank Snyder for not completely ruining his work like they did with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Granted, Moore has every right to say that he wants nothing to do with the perversion of his work. He's entitled to that thought. But with that same understanding, Moore should thank Snyder for presenting his creation in a "respectable" light that not only sticks closely too, but pays tribute to Moore's work, all while adapting it the best he could keeping the average film-going audience in mind. Snyder could've easily taken the characters and run rampant with them by creating another Batman and Robin. But he didn't. He created a worthy adaptation of Alan Moore's Watchmen. Not a perfect adaptation…but a worthy one.

Proj, Bass and Shadow pretty much said everything worth saying. So I'll just move onto my few ideas.



The Good
The opening credits, first and foremost. They were nothing short of beautiful. From the still frames, to the slow motion captures, to the secret reveals and twists of real history.

The treatment of Dr. Manhattan. He was just great all around. I can't count on one hand where I thought to myself, "He really looks too CGI right now." A few facial expressions seemed a little off….but nothing too major.

Rorschach and Nite Owl. Their respective performances were outstanding. Wilson really did bring Nite Owl to life. Rorschach was great too…but I can't help but feel that Haley put too much emotion in him. I've always saw Rorschach as pretty much void of human emotion (save a few outbursts). Haley just mad Rorschach seem angry all the time instead of stoic.

There's more but too many to mention.



The Bad
A lot of the fighting. Other than a few parts in the film like the Prison Riot and a Rorschach's capture, the fighting seemed to be completely unnecessary and too over the top. None of these people had superpowers…so why do they all hit like The Hulk? I can see The Comedian (one of the world's best killing machines) punching thru a drywall-based wall once or twice. I've done it myself. But breaking concrete mantles? Ozymandias gorilla-pressing Comedian up over his head and over the couch and thru the window? Come on Snyder. Really. This isn't an action film. There's a reason there was practically no fighting in the book.

Silk Specter. Meh. She wasn't horrible. But she wasn't good either.

A lot of small but important details in each character. Snyder seemed to gloss over certain key points. I understand the time constraints might not allow for repeated psych sessions with Rorschach in prison…but you shouldn't have changed Rorschach's origin. He did not cleave the killer quickly and repeatedly. He gave him what he deserved. He watched the killer and his Kovac's persona burn away in the fire. THAT is when he became Rorschach. Snyder also downplayed the fact that Ozy was the "perfect human" to the point where he could catch a bullet. Instead we got that slo-mo scene of him dodging bullets in the lobby…and then that brief shot at the end with Silk Specter. That was a key moment for the character as far as proving to the others that he IS far superior to them.



The Ugly
Matthew Goode's portrayal of Ozymandias. Just poor all around. I can buy Goode as Mothman maybe…but not Ozy.

The soundtrack. It just didn't fit with the film. I know it's kind of a period piece so certain songs and sounds will help immerse the viewer into the time. But that wasn't the case here. I mean Jimi Hendrix on the way to Karnak? No. They should've just kept the score instead. If they were gonna have a soundtrack, then it should've been instrumentals to ominous sounding songs much like the previews. Sorry Snyder….fail.

The gratuitous sex scenes. Not needed. We already knew that Watchmen was rated R for giant blue penis. We knew that Nite Owl and Silk Specter get busy in Archie….but we didn't need to see it. It was wasted screen time that could've been used for something else important that got cut.






All in all…I loved it. Not as much as I could've loved it. But I love it anyways. It's like Proj said. There is Alan Moore's Watchmen…and there is Zack Snyder's Watchmen. Both great. Both with flaws. Both are a must have for any comic fan's collection.




I say we have a Watchmen Dreamcasting Round again in honor of the film's release.

Mostly cause I missed out on the last one.

I think this film could have benefitted from the Kill Bill treatment, split the story in half to give the ending proper room to breath.

I'm gonna have to say no.

Kinda.

I do think Snyder should've taken a cue from Kill Bill and actually had chapters in the film along with the respective culminating quotes....but not split the story in 2.

 

[mike3717]

Other than giving us fanboys a 12-episode miniseries on HBO, with verbatim script, plot, and details

Great Idea. Even tho it is too late to do this for Watchmen I could see this being a very cool way to do something like Preacher.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

I think this film could have benefitted from the Kill Bill treatment, split the story in half to give the ending proper room to breath.

Then they could have a sequel, without actually having a sequel. Get more $$.

Everybody wins.

I can kind of see that. I don't know what would be a good place to split the movies though. When Manhattan goes to Mars? When Rorschach gets arrested? I dunno. Interesting idea though.

The soundtrack. It just didn't fit with the film. I know it's kind of a period piece so certain songs and sounds will help immerse the viewer into the time. But that wasn't the case here. I mean Jimi Hendrix on the way to Karnak? No. They should've just kept the score instead. If they were gonna have a soundtrack, then it should've been instrumentals to ominous sounding songs much like the previews. Sorry Snyder….fail.

I have to admit I kind of liked the song choices, with the exception of the song that played when they show Manhattan and the Comedian in Vietnam.

I say we have a Watchmen Dreamcasting Round again in honor of the film's release.

With the exception of Silk Spectre and Ozymandias I don't know who I would change from the cast though. I thought the casting was pretty solid on this with the exception of Ozymandias. I thought that Silk Spectre was good enough for what she has to do.

 

[Planet-man]

VVD's review is now the best to date, and I would totally be in for an HBO Presents: Watchmen dreamcasting round.

In other news, I got the Doctor Manhattan action figure and it is awesome.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I have to admit I kind of liked the song choices, with the exception of the song that played when they show Manhattan and the Comedian in Vietnam.

It wasn't that they were bad song choices, it's the fact that the film itself didn't warrant any kind of official soundtrack.

It should've been completely void of recognizable songs and stuck to score only.

With the exception of Silk Spectre and Ozymandias I don't know who I would change from the cast though. I thought the casting was pretty solid on this with the exception of Ozymandias. I thought that Silk Spectre was good enough for what she has to do.

It was a great cast overall and very smart on Snyder's part for castig relative unknowns. But I can't help but wanting to use other people for personal creations.

In other news, I got the Doctor Manhattan action figure and it is awesome.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a figure or 2. The local comic shop here is selling a few of the variant statues like Comedian without the mask.

I'd obviously get Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan. And I'd display them on my desk at work. As conversation pieces.

 

[Doublehex]

If I ever saw a Rorscach action figure, I would buy it in a heart beat.

 

[Planet-man]

They sell out the Rorschachs as soon as they get them, but I am determined to get one. The Dr. Manhattan I got was the last one in the store.

 

[Random]

"I DID IT!"
-- Ozymandias

I'm am a little piss they didn't have him shout that

Everyone here has valid points and opinions, but one I'd like to specifically call out is MWOF's statement that Alan Moore should bow down and kiss Snyder's feet.

People-----MWOF has a point. Seriously.

Alan Moore should thank Snyder for not completely ruining his work like they did with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Granted, Moore has every right to say that he wants nothing to do with the perversion of his work. He's entitled to that thought. But with that same understanding, Moore should thank Snyder for presenting his creation in a "respectable" light that not only sticks closely too, but pays tribute to Moore's work, all while adapting it the best he could keeping the average film-going audience in mind. Snyder could've easily taken the characters and run rampant with them by creating another Batman and Robin. But he didn't. He created a worthy adaptation of Alan Moore's Watchmen. Not a perfect adaptation…but a worthy one.

Definitely if Moore goes out and says this was horrible it will pretty much validate the idea that he hates movie not on good they are but from his stubborn gripes about the movie industry.

Silk Specter. Meh. She wasn't horrible. But she wasn't good either.

Matthew Goode's portrayal of Ozymandias. Just poor all around. I can buy Goode as Mothman maybe…but not Ozy.

I actually that Scepter was great and Ozy was okay, considering the roles. I'm mean she could have play Silk much worse but she actually nailed the part. Any problem I had with her would be more the character than herself. And for Adrian I think that was the toughest role to pull off. I mean Rorshack all you need is a grimy voice, Manhattan just a monotone voice with good facial expression (Nite Owl did go above and beyond, was just superb). Really look at the role, the character thinks of himself as the perfect man who has the all answers to life's problems. And arrogant, self absorbed individual. That's a tough role to pull off. Maybe it would have been better with a more mature actor, but he did fine.

I do think Snyder should've taken a cue from Kill Bill and actually had chapters in the film along with the respective culminating quotes....but not split the story in 2.

I wished they would have placed them subtly like the Ozymandias one

 

[Victor Von Doom]

They sell out the Rorschachs as soon as they get them, but I am determined to get one. The Dr. Manhattan I got was the last one in the store.

I saw one at the book store and passed.

Probably won't do that again.





I need to see this film again to try and catch all the things I didn't before.

On a sidenote, for all of you have not seen the motion comic----YOU NEED TO!!! It is Watchmen...animated...verbatim. The only thing missing is the between chapter excerpts. But it still has the Black Freighter and all that. I love it so much.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

I don't get why people are so upset at the surreal violence and fighting in the movie but no one bats an eye at ozy catching a bullet. Yea sure it happens in the comic but it's so played down in the movie that really none of the fight scenes should really be any more off beat than the bullet catch.

 

[Planet-man]

Adrian I think that was the toughest role to pull off. I mean Rorshack all you need is a grimy voice,

Okay.... no. There's much more to Rorschach than that, and I think at least Doom might agree that you could(and maybe should) play Rorschach brilliantly without even using a grimy voice at all.

Really look at the role, the character thinks of himself as the perfect man who has the all answers to life's problems. And arrogant, self absorbed individual. That's a tough role to pull off. Maybe it would have been better with a more mature actor, but he did fine.

I completely disagree. First in that I don't think he did fine at all, and second in that there are literally hundreds of actors out there for whom the part wouldn't be tough to pull off. Plenty of which actually look right for the part too. I can't understand how he got the part and made it past the first day of shooting.

I saw one at the book store and passed.

Probably won't do that again.

You sire.... are a FOOL.

I need to see this film again to try and catch all the things I didn't before.

On a sidenote, for all of you have not seen the motion comic----YOU NEED TO!!! It is Watchmen...animated...verbatim. The only thing missing is the between chapter excerpts. But it still has the Black Freighter and all that. I love it so much.

I'm really interested in that, but the between-chapter excerpts are so good I'd probably just read them in between every part anyway. Are there different people doing voices, or is it all one guy like a book-on-tape?

I don't get why people are so upset at the surreal violence and fighting in the movie but no one bats an eye at ozy catching a bullet. Yea sure it happens in the comic but it's so played down in the movie that really none of the fight scenes should really be any more off beat than the bullet catch.

People are upset at that because the bullet-catching thing is supposed to be a definitive, unparalleled act of super-human skill, proof that Veidt may have actually reached the peak of human potential. Having normal, if learned, vigilantes displaying what looks like superhuman power on a regular basis is a completely different story.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Okay.... no. There's much more to Rorschach than that, and I think at least Doom might agree that you could(and maybe should) play Rorschach brilliantly without even using a grimy voice at all.



I completely disagree. First in that I don't think he did fine at all, and second in that there are literally hundreds of actors out there for whom the part wouldn't be tough to pull off. Plenty of which actually look right for the part too. I can't understand how he got the part and made it past the first day of shooting.



You sire.... are a FOOL.



I'm really interested in that, but the between-chapter excerpts are so good I'd probably just read them in between every part anyway. Are there different people doing voices, or is it all one guy like a book-on-tape?



People are upset at that because the bullet-catching thing is supposed to be a definitive, unparalleled act of super-human skill, proof that Veidt may have actually reached the peak of human potential. Having normal, if learned, vigilantes displaying what looks like superhuman power on a regular basis is a completely different story.

but that's my point, the bullet catch is so played down in the movie like he already knew how to do it which was not so in the comic.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

I completely disagree. First in that I don't think he did fine at all, and second in that there are literally hundreds of actors out there for whom the part wouldn't be tough to pull off. Plenty of which actually look right for the part too. I can't understand how he got the part and made it past the first day of shooting.

While he was no means my preferred choice, he wasn't God-awful. Most of my complaints about the interpretation of the character in the movie weren't due to the actor. I think the costume would have been better if you would have used the purple from the comic instead of the black....etc. A different actor would have been better, but he wasn't horrible. I actually thought that Carla Gugino was the worst of the main cast...but maybe it was just the horrible old makeup.

People are upset at that because the bullet-catching thing is supposed to be a definitive, unparalleled act of super-human skill, proof that Veidt may have actually reached the peak of human potential. Having normal, if learned, vigilantes displaying what looks like superhuman power on a regular basis is a completely different story.

Agreed.