Was Millar's X-Men Too Over the Top?

Effect said:
Was Millar's X-men too over the top?

Most certainly yes. I feel that Ultimate X-men's first arc is the reason why I couldn't and still can't get into Ultimate X-men. I understand trying to get across just how much mutants were feared and hated but the presentation was bad I felt. It was so overtop that it simply became silly and totally unbelieveable. Yes I know this is a comic but you need a certain amount of believeablity in a story unless it's high magic fantasy or a cartoon. The whole story just left a serious bad taste in my mouth. This situation and the whole Logan/Jean sleeping together. It just served to make her come off as seriously skanky and slutty. As a 616 Jean fan it just really turned me off to the characters completely with how it was presented.

Perhaps if Millar's first two arcs didn't have this really choppy feeling to it in it's story progression things might have felt better. There was no build up to these characters. I was given no reason at all as for why I should care about them. It's as if he was expecting the fans like of their 616 versions to fill that void but their actions weren't too appealing. I was more frustrated and annoyed by the entire thing.

Scott: We see him looking at Jean and Logan kissing. We are suppose to know he could be jealous but why should we care?

Jean: Has no trouble jumping into bed with Logan after one kiss. Then she gets angry when he tells her he was going to kill Xavier but isn't now. Sure she gets made but is that even really the main focus or is that she is pretty much a slut (I feel this image of her has pretty much ruined my opinion of the Ultiamte version of the character has really be a big problem for me, combined with the skankish apperance I feel she had and most likely still does since I haven't read any recent issues). Yet tries to be morally right by being angry that he was going to kill Prof. X and wanting nothing to do with him every again. The whole thing was a WTF? situation, not in a good way.

There was no flow to those arcs. Things just jumped around I felt. To much trying to be done, to many characters attempting to be used that seemed like they were there just for the sake of being there.

First impressions are everything they say. Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimate Fantastic Four gave great first impressions I felt. You were introduced to the cast, they were developed and then eased into fighting. Ultimate X-men just seem to throw you into the deep end of the pool for no real reason. Did Millar think that people wouldn't be interested in the title or story if he didn't start right away with the killing, sex, big explosions. It's almost as if it was writen around those three things instead of them just being apart of a story.
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WELCOME TO ULIMATE CENTRAL EFFECT!

And I completely agree with you, Jean is a bit sluttier but its working out better later one when characters are actually developed.

jeremiahvedder said:
Some girls **** on the first date.

I, personally, don't see a real big problem with that.
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Okay who are these girls and can I have their numbers?


TheManWithoutFear said:
Ultimates has nothing to do with George Bush.
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Sorry to disappoint but it kinda does. And I really hate that they used Bush in this comic. I would prefer a fake president, that way you can make up policies and personality. Seeing Bush there kinda ruins it for me a seems really out of place. I cant imagine him in this world (I also dont want to) I also really hate the use of celebrity guesses and references, it just seems really out of place and doesnt work at all. Just because the UU is grounded in reality doesnt mean we should see all these real celebrities and politicians just for the hell of it.
 
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Random said:
Sorry to disappoint but it kinda does.
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I think it's more than a little. And I agree with the sentiment on Bush, but not because of the real world aspect. We don't need Bush there, because Fury IS Bush. The egotistical, all-knowing, "my way or the highway" leader... that's Fury.

Most of Ultimates was spent building up the American super-soldier program, albeit with a set back or two (Hulk), and their first successful operation (the Chitauri). Then we get into Ultimates 2, with things like the big pre-emptive strike (Iraq much?) that then outrages the world and pushes the world to form the Liberators. It's basically a "if Bush keeps going as he is, this is what'll happen" disguised as entertainment.
 
I don't think Fury is Bush... I think Fury knows what he's doing and Bush does not. My two cents, but I'll stay away from the politics bit because I'm only 18 and my opinion doesn't really matter right now...
 
Goodwill said:
I don't think Fury is Bush... I think Fury knows what he's doing and Bush does not. My two cents, but I'll stay away from the politics bit because I'm only 18 and my opinion doesn't really matter right now...
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I havent read any of Ultimates 2 vol2, Im waiting for the TPB, so I'm not sure of the situation but it could be that Bush ordered Fury to do it. Crap your 18 and staying away for politics! Dont you know P Diddy will pop a cap in your ***? Hey this is America your opinion matters, it just nobody listens.
 
Goodwill said:
I don't think Fury is Bush... I think Fury knows what he's doing and Bush does not. My two cents, but I'll stay away from the politics bit because I'm only 18 and my opinion doesn't really matter right now...
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He uses the Ultimates for pre-emptive strikes against foreign countries and ends up getting betrayed and invaded? Wonder what would happen if he didn't know what he was doing... o_O
 
Goodwill said:
I don't think Fury is Bush... I think Fury knows what he's doing and Bush does not. My two cents, but I'll stay away from the politics bit because I'm only 18 and my opinion doesn't really matter right now...
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Don't say that. You'd be surprised about how little some people know about politics. Whether someone's opinion is important is never a question of age, it is one of experience. The only reason age is valued at all is because it implies the person has more experience. Without knowledge and wisdom, an old person is just a child, sans youthful body or the promise of life.

I'm 19, yet I still know a decent amount of politics. It hasn't come from me aging, it came from me reading the paper, specifically the editorials and opinions, every day since I was 14. Watching the news... listening to speeches, and caring about it is what makes one know politics enought to really speak about it, not age. That said, if you don't know politics because you don't pay attention to it, then yeah, your voice means NOTHING! heh... kidding. you should still voice your opinion. I would just not care as much.

As far as the usage of Bush in Millar's books and Millar's attacks on Bush, I think the following:

- I think that Millar quite obviously doesn't like George Bush, and Ultimates is, to an extent, an attack on his policies.
- I think that the usage of President Bush in the Ultimates is good. It is supposed to be the most real life of the books, and real life figures help that. Also, these are Fury's decisions for the most part, so Bush does not have to take center stage as a hero or villain (in the comic book. Bush is Darth Vader to Millar in the real world). I think it works.
- I think that Bush's usage in Ultimate X-men was bad. The whole naked president thing and kidnapped daughter were a little too gratuitous to use real-life figures. However, I think Millar handled this enough by having it be somewhat artistically vague. Kubert did not draw the President to be a spitting image of Bush. In fact, I think the only reason one would know it is indeed Bush would be because it is clearly Bush inthe Ultimates, and they are the same universe.


-
 
jtg3885 said:
He uses the Ultimates for pre-emptive strikes against foreign countries and ends up getting betrayed and invaded? Wonder what would happen if he didn't know what he was doing... o_O
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Keep in mind this is comic books... I'm not trying to cut you down or anything, so please do not interpret this that way... Ok, so based on the actions Nick Fury has taken, he's selfish and power hungry, but so far there seems to have been a motive behind it... A greater good, if you will. I'm not quite sure, from what I've seen, Bush knows what's up. First, he promised us weapons of mass destruction... Couldn't find them. He said the reason behind the Iraq invasion was to fight the war on terror... It's hard to believe when the real problems seem to be developing in Iran and North Korea. Hmm... Now, bear in mind, the reason why I mentioned the fact that we were drawing comparisons from a comic was that it's one thing to have all this happen to Fury and there's a good story.
 
Super_Human said:
The first arc was the best.But other than that,it was okay at best.Nothing close to Millar's best stuff however.
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your exactly right the art was good too
 
Well, I just reread Millar's Ultimate X-Men since I saw X-Men 3, and yes, it is over the top.

But it is still awesome. :rockon:
 
I really liked it and I think you gotta remember that as far as we know there are only 2 full Adult Mutants in the world. Charles Xavier and Magneto. You have some more grown up mutants like the young 20 something Emma Frost but overall Mutants have just sort of exploded on the scene. Most of them are immature kids, whose parents don't know what to do with them, some of them are scared of their own children. I think the public's potrayal was over the top but at the same time accurate I mean you really don't know if someone has the power to shoot fire from their hands and can't control it you could just be walking along and suddenly burned people are gonna be scare. It was definetly over the top but I think it hit the mark.
 
erm... Arent wolverine and sabertooth both like 100 years old? And juggernaut?

But yeah, it does seem like the vast majority of mutants are younger.
 
Ultimate MJ said:
erm... Arent wolverine and sabertooth both like 100 years old? And juggernaut?
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Wolverine age is unknown in UU, Cap says he recognize him from air drops in WW2 but other than that nothing. And Juggernaunt appeared to be young
 
Over the top? Sometimes...most times. But when you get those once a month you truely had something to READ!

Worst arc so far in Ultimate X-Men was Date Night. Sure everyone was out of the manson...but why do I care? Coolest thing was Sabretooth taking a sample of Wolverine at the end. Otherwise nothing too important or big to not be done in 1 issue or mentioned as happening between issues. It was also BORING!

Millar's arcs were never boring. And Miller's characters although over the top were fun to watch. I loved his take on Beast. Not so much Jean but writers since have built on Jean and she's...almost a younger clone of Jean in 616...if that's what you want by calling her a slut in this universe.

The first arc was better than Ultimate Spider-Man which went ON AND ON AND ON!

As for Bush in Ultimate Universe. It works. IMO. It fits in better than vampires but Bendis put vampires into the "realistic" Ultimate Universe.
 
Sorry for bumping this thread, and before you read my post I'd like to say that I only read the first five pages of this thread before I decided to post, sorry again :?

Anyway, I know everyone will hate me forever for saying this, but I didn't like Millars first arc on UXM so much that I gave up on the title for quite awhile. It wasn't until much later someone convinced me to come back and read Vaughan's stuff which made me the UXM fan that I am today, (except for Kirkman's run, but that's a discussion for another thread.)

Sure, I can except that people are willing to kill mutants, maybe even that we'd build giant robots to do so, (though, why exactly do they have to be giant? Just wondering…) But I want some sort of build-up. I wanted something more like this: People are very wary of mutants, and some people even hate them outright. The X-Men try to protect people from mutants and mutants from people, while trying to help mutants PR. I'm not sure how they'd go about doing this exactly, but we'd have events of mutant/human violence (on a smaller scale) that makes Magneto form the Brotherhood.

And things can go downhill from there: After some humans attack mutants out of hate, Magneto wants to protect mutants, and tries to stop mutant injustice. Then we'd have some major events, like maybe Magneto attacks Genosha or some other mutant-phobic country, and then not only people, but the Government would start turning more and more anti-mutant. Then we can have Magneto turn even more anti-human, and be willing to do stuff like he did in X2. Then in comes the Sentinels. Which, imo, should be special designed to resist magnetic powers, (they're made to battle Magneto, but they're made out of metal... That just doesn't make any sense 0_o) and come in small, medium and large, so as to at least try and avoid human casualties, it'd just be the smart thing to do.

Something like that, anyway. I really liked the slow beginnings we got from Ult. Spider-man and Ult. Fantastic Four, why couldn't Ult. X-Men get this too, when they're definitely the ones that needed it the most?
 
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I agree with the slow beginning part. X-Men really, really needed that.
I also think they did a great job with filling in the gaps with the storylines, especially in "Weapon X" story.
 
BAMF! said:
Sorry for bumping this thread, and before you read my post I'd like to say that I only read the first five pages of this thread before I decided to post, sorry again :?

Anyway, I know everyone will hate me forever for saying this, but I didn't like Millars first arc on UXM so much that I gave up on the title for quite awhile.
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I think more people would agree with you than you'd expect. Including me.

You'd think Millar would have at least tried to read the Morrison Manifesto.
 
BAMF! said:
Sorry for bumping this thread, and before you read my post I'd like to say that I only read the first five pages of this thread before I decided to post, sorry again :?

Anyway, I know everyone will hate me forever for saying this, but I didn't like Millars first arc on UXM so much that I gave up on the title for quite awhile. It wasn't until much later someone convinced me to come back and read Vaughan's stuff which made me the UXM fan that I am today, (except for Kirkman's run, but that's a discussion for another thread.)

Sure, I can except that people are willing to kill mutants, maybe even that we'd build giant robots to do so, (though, why exactly do they have to be giant? Just wondering…) But I want some sort of build-up. I wanted something more like this: People are very wary of mutants, and some people even hate them outright. The X-Men try to protect people from mutants and mutants from people, while trying to help mutants PR. I'm not sure how they'd go about doing this exactly, but we'd have events of mutant/human violence (on a smaller scale) that makes Magneto form the Brotherhood.

And things can go downhill from there: After some humans attack mutants out of hate, Magneto wants to protect mutants, and tries to stop mutant injustice. Then we'd have some major events, like maybe Magneto attacks Genosha or some other mutant-phobic country, and then not only people, but the Government would start turning more and more anti-mutant. Then we can have Magneto turn even more anti-human, and be willing to do stuff like he did in X2. Then in comes the Sentinels. Which, imo, should be special designed to resist magnetic powers, (they're made to battle Magneto, but they're made out of metal... That just doesn't make any sense 0_o) and come in small, medium and large, so as to at least try and avoid human casualties, it'd just be the smart thing to do.

Something like that, anyway. I really liked the slow beginnings we got from Ult. Spider-man and Ult. Fantastic Four, why couldn't Ult. X-Men get this too, when they're definitely the ones that needed it the most?
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No need to apologize. I agree.

I could NOT get into UXM before Bendis took over. And his run wasn't even very good.

I didn't like how the Sentinels were used at all, and the book just seemed to try and cram 35 years of X-Men stories into a few dozen issues. It was all over the place and hard to read.
 
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