Wall*E discussion [spoilers]

God, you guys sound like Rush Limbaugh.

I kinda do see his point of view and all, but I think he's overthinking it too much.

I'm sure it wasn't Pixar's point to do that. I think the fat adults was to show that humans grew too dependent on technology while in space than on themselves.

And I think the machine running the cruiseship had more to do with that than anything the humans did.
 
Overthinking it?

Maybe. I do tend to deeply analyze most everything I read and/or watch in order to find the deeper social commentary within. I even analyzed the deeper meanings that the fact that MJ was playing in The Importance of Being Ernest in the Spider-man movies. That is definitely an allusion made with purpose.

That said, I do think the jab at capitalism at least was fairly obvious with them having a single company ultimately take over the world and be the ones giving the commands that caused the evil robot to take over the ship.

Even if this wasn't a conscious criticism of capitalism and everything else I said in my earlier post, I think these criticisms certainly exist in the writer's mind in some form of fashion.
 
After going to see this film I felt like I was raped by a cute robot's liberal agenda.

The fact that they make all of the perceived evils of the world completely morally equivalent did not sit right with me.

As far as Disney is concerned, Capitalism=Environmental Pollution=Overweight People=Obsessed with Technology=Disconnected from the World=Clueless=Sheep-like enslavement to advertising and media.

These are not all the same social issue, and in fact, I think our society makes a much bigger deal about some of these things than should be made. The idea that all of these things are basically the same big problem makes me want to vomit.

Just because I am overweight, beleive in capitalism, and enjoy technology doesn't mean I'll be an blimp-like imbelcile who disregards his environment and does what he's told before I know it! Had they decided to tackled one or two issues in an honest and meaning ful manner, I'd have liked this film. The fact that they use over-the-top generalizations in the most judgemental ways possible makes this film, for me, the liberal equivalent of a Bible-beating televangalist.

I liked the short with the Rabbit way more.

A CGI cartoon - by Pixar - for kids - with very little dialogue...

And it has enough substance to create political controversy.

This is why I love WALL•E. Not because it's controversial, but because there's just SO MUCH IN IT. Just think about how they did that. Not once in the movie does it say capitalism or being fat... or ANYTHING is bad. It never ONCE makes a comment through dialogue. It's just... there. Permeating it. There's just so much to this cartoon. Awesome.

I felt like it was more about human apathy than anti-captolist.

Yeah - this is the problem with the controversy - people bringing baggage to it. It's more universal than "capitalism" or "globalization" - it's just about laziness. Sloth. Let technology do too much, let it answer too many questions, and we become babies. It's a film about the fear of technology... and it's main story is a love-story between two robots.

I can't get over how sublime this ****ing movie is.
 
What baggage did I bring? There's not one mention of capitalism or globalization in the film. The society in which they live is a homogonized one in which the controlling state weakens them through banal distractions of adverts and trends. They don't BUY anything in the film, and they don't have money. It's not a capitalist society, but one where the citizens are totally ruled by their technological servants.

That's in the film. I didn't bring anything with me, and I didn't look at the film and draw conclusions by extending its purview beyond what is there. So what's my "bit of baggage"?
 
Whatever it is that's accounting for your perception of all these brilliant, never-before-seen levels that make the film this "****ing sublime" masterpiece on fear of technology. I really don't get it. All the film has to say about the issue can be summed up in a generic sentence or two and you're saying the the fact that they didn't actually put it into words in the film makes it the best movie ever. I expect at least that much subtlety from the films I watch, Pixar or otherwise(and I'm not being unfair to judge Pixar as harshly as other films, since they do "kid's movies", because regardless of how far down the appeal reaches, they are still all-ages movie with real, well-defined all-ages issues, always have been).

So I still don't get it. Seriously, what about this movie is so much smarter and more creative than other films? I really want to know. I really want to be more moved by it and another favourite film is always what I'm looking for.
 
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You are looking for something complicated, something that you would expect in a real dystopian future science fiction movie. That's not what Wall-E offers. It's brilliance is in its simplicity, and in the relationship between Wall-E and Eva. It's brilliance is in its exploration of human nature in a way that makes sense to children.

This movie is about how mankind is destined to take initiative, and implies that we ought to take initiative now so to avoid this future. Human Initiative is key, and its something that through complacency we tend to lose track of from time to time. Convenience is nice, but we need to embrace our deeper selves and do the right thing. Not just for today and tomorrow, but for the generations to come. They took that incredibly complicated statement about humanity, and put it in terms of a children's movie.

Furthermore, they used the most realistic and convincing animation ever put on screen, and told a story about two robots who fall in love. With these robots, allegories themselves, they show us the importance of personality. Why we have to be the people we are on the inside on the outside. We shouldn't be mindless robots, we need to embrace our true selves to find true happiness.

The brilliant moment is when these ideas connect. We find true happiness by taking initiative and making a better world for ourselves. That love and happiness for all people doesn't come if you just sit around and wait for the world to change around you. You have to do something. You have to make the choice to stand up and turn off the machines that are keeping us all detached from reality. You have to go for a walk and check out all the things in life that are beautiful, and that should show us why to save our lovely little planet.

That's what the movie is saying. And it's saying it so directly, and yet so indirectly, by showing this beautiful love story, and yet it's telling children the most important message i've seen in a movie in a long time.

That's why it's the best thing that's come out so far this year. If you can't see it for what it is, I feel sorry for you.
 
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Whatever it is that's accounting for your perception of all these brilliant, never-before-seen levels that make the film this "****ing sublime" masterpiece on fear of technology. I really don't get it.

That's not baggage. I didn't blame/praise the film for stuff that ISN'T in there.

What I mean by baggage: Saying "the film hates capitalism", either claiming it's a masterpiece for hating capitalism or a terrible liberal puff piece for hating capitalism when there's nothing about capitalism in the movie. There's consumerism, but nothing about free enterprise at all. That's praising/condemning a movie for something YOU brought to it, and nothing at all wrong or good with the film.

I went to the movie - it had these things in it. It had a very substantive and simple message about apathy and sloth. I did not bring that with me. It's there, it's done well and that's that. I however, think it's sublime and that's an opinion based on what was in the movie. You're more than welcome to not think it's good, but it's not baggage. I'm judging the film based on what's in there, not on baggage I've brought to the cinema with me.

All the film has to say about the issue can be summed up in a generic sentence or two and you're saying the the fact that they didn't actually put it into words in the film makes it the best movie ever. I expect at least that much subtlety from the films I watch, Pixar or otherwise(and I'm not being unfair to judge Pixar as harshly as other films, since they do "kid's movies", because regardless of how far down the appeal reaches, they are still all-ages movie with real, well-defined all-ages issues, always have been).

Lots of terrific movies can be summed up in a generic sentence. Done well, this makes them succinct, developed, and substantive. Done badly, it makes them bland and shallow. I think WALL•E is an example of the former.

And it's not that the film didn't SAY it's message that makes it awesome. It's EVERYTHING that makes it awesome. That subtle substantive element is only part of what makes it awesome. Wall•E himself is awesome. The fire extinguisher is awesome. The "Zarathustra" moment is awesome. The end titles are awesome. The opening short is awesome. The animation is awesome. The voices are awesome. Everything worked brilliantly. No one part is responsible for the whole package working. You're being far too literal.

So I still don't get it. Seriously, what about this movie is so much smarter and more creative than other films? I really want to know. I really want to be more moved by it and another favourite film is always what I'm looking for.

Look - favourite films, films that move you, can be ****. Utterly and totally ****. I'm totally torn apart by THE TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE (1986) every time I see it. It's not because it's good. It's because I saw it when I was 6 and it just blew my mind.

On the other hand, you can see a masterpiece and it doesn't pull at your heartstrings. CASABLANCA I think is a superb film, but it's not in my top 10 movies. It's utterly brilliant, and I see no faults in it BUT it just doesn't grab me. Maybe it's because of something as arbitrary like "I don't like Bergman's hair" but it's just not one of my favourites.

The point is - you can watch WALL•E, see how creative and wonderful it is, and respect it on a craft level without being moved by it. And if you're not moved by it, that's okay. You don't have to be.

You never know, maybe in 10 years you'll watch it again for some odd reason and that's the perfect time for you to see it and you fall in love with it.

Don't try to force yourself to be moved by something if you're not.

All my friends like ZOOLANDER. I don't. I don't like AMERICAN BEAUTY. I saw THE BIG LEBOWSKI and thought it rubbish. I watched it earlier this year for a second time and fell on the floor laughing because it was so funny. I don't know what changed in the years between, but something did it seems.

As for WALL•E - it's a very sophisticated piece of craft. The exposition that tells you who's who and what's what is very deftly given to the point that it's virtually invisible and so you can completely immerse yourself in it. But if you think WALL•E is too cute you'll never immerse yourself and you'll never see what's good.

You are looking for something complicated, something that you would expect in a real dystopian future science fiction movie. That's not what Wall-E offers. It's brilliance is in its simplicity, and in the relationship between Wall-E and Eva. It's brilliance is in its exploration of human nature in a way that makes sense to children.

This movie is about how mankind is destined to take initiative, and implies that we ought to take initiative now so to avoid this future. Human Initiative is key, and its something that through complacency we tend to lose track of from time to time. Convenience is nice, but we need to embrace our deeper selves and do the right thing. Not just for today and tomorrow, but for the generations to come. They took that incredibly complicated statement about humanity, and put it in terms of a children's movie.

Furthermore, they used the most realistic and convincing animation ever put on screen, and told a story about two robots who fall in love. With these robots, allegories themselves, they show us the importance of personality. Why we have to be the people we are on the inside on the outside. We shouldn't be mindless robots, we need to embrace our true selves to find true happiness.

The brilliant moment is when these ideas connect. We find true happiness by taking initiative and making a better world for ourselves. That love and happiness for all people doesn't come if you just sit around and wait for the world to change around you. You have to do something. You have to make the choice to stand up and turn off the machines that are keeping us all detached from reality. You have to go for a walk and check out all the things in life that are beautiful, and that should show us why to save our lovely little planet.

That's what the movie is saying. And it's saying it so directly, and yet so indirectly, by showing this beautiful love story, and yet it's telling children the most important message i've seen in a movie in a long time.

That's why it's the best thing that's come out so far this year. If you can't see it for what it is, I feel sorry for you.

That's pretty much it. However, I don't feel sorry for anyone who doesn't 'get it'. Different folks and different strokes.

Anyhow - I'm sure we'll all be moved by the awesome thing that is THE DARK KNIGHT. (This weekend mutha****as!)

I saw it. I cried.

**** you all.

Yeah - I almost did.

I'm seeing WALL•E again today in like... two hours! :D
 
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I think the message of Wall*E wasn't really about consumerism, so much as consumption. It was criticizing the mindless accumulation of new products and their quick turnover into trash. But that's only part of it.

When Wall*E started thinking outside of the box and collecting items (not for arbitrary economic value, but for the enjoyment he got out of looking at them and thinking about them--tossing the ring and keeping the box), he became a person. The more situations Eve encountered that were outside of her mission parameters, the more choices she made and the more of her personality was revealed (or created). Auto couldn't do it, so he never became a person. The li'l mopbot could, so he did.

Even buried under years of laziness, consumption and unproductivity, the humans on the Axiom were eager to learn, grow and create.

Personhood comes from growth and creation. Growth and creation comes from personhood. It's inevitable. Mindless consumption makes you less of a person. This is the ultimate message.

Also, I'm amazed that beings with synthesized voices that clank when they touch each other can be so damn cute. I just about died every time Wall*E and Eve said each other's name. Love this movie.
 
Wall-E (Three-Disc Special Edition) [Blu-ray] + Digital Copy (2008.)

Nov. 18th.

Booya.

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I'm not seen the 3-disc blu-ray here :( Not seen 2 disck blu-ray just one so I may wait and if it's region free buy Import 3-disc
 
Why on Earth do they need 3 discs when a Blu-Ray disc holds 50gb of info?
 

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