Ultimatum series discussion [spoilers]
- Thread starter Sacred&Profane
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Didn't **** any of those *****es
I'm thinking like a site called WhatWentWrongWithTheUU.com, but a better name, or something like WhyMarvelWhy.com. And just fill it with essays and articles(well written ones) about all this crap, educating the public and getting support. Then spread the word across the internet anyway we can. And maybe fill up Marvel's e-mail inbox with links, full article, and what not. Thing with something like that is you gotta go all in or it's a waste of time.
Wolverines letter was revealed in Ultimate X-men. It was talked about in the issue where Wolverine went to see Peter Parker for some blood analysis or something. They didn't show exactly what it said but it was something along the lines of Kitty being like a daughter to him.
I really thought Rick Jones was going to play a big part in Ultimatum. I can't believe they didn't even bring him up.
I also thought that the real Black Panther (not Cap-Black Panther) would come back to help out. Cap did him a big favor and I thought he was gonna come save the day. It seems like they forgot about him.
Among the other plot holes and things left hanging, I notice they also didn't reveal what was in the box Wolverine gave to Kitty. Maybe it was a piece of his brain so they could regenerate him.... heheh.
Or better yet it will be revealed to be Jeph Loebs severed head in the box. Wolverine saying "you'll know what to do" means burn the fu*%er so he won't regenerate.:twisted:
Or better yet it will be revealed to be Jeph Loebs severed head in the box. Wolverine saying "you'll know what to do" means burn the fu*%er so he won't regenerate.:twisted:
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
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J. Agamemnon
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id be down for something like this.
The Overlord
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Could Ultimates Vol. 4 be even worse then this?
Goodwill
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I'd contribute something for sure. Loeb is the reason I've stopped reading comics. I only read UU titles and now I don't read comics.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Void.M
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Worst than Liefield?
moonmaster
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I haven't kept up on Ultimatum and knew absolutely zero about it besides the fact that it's about Magneto causing Hurricane Katrina or something but I decided to read the Wikipedia entry on this and whaaaaatttt?????
What exactly was the point of all this? Just to kill everybody?
Was the full title Ultimatum: The Book Where We Kill All the Characters?
I em cunfus-ed
What exactly was the point of all this? Just to kill everybody?
Was the full title Ultimatum: The Book Where We Kill All the Characters?
I em cunfus-ed
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You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
I think the point was supposed to overturn the status of mutants in the Ultimate Universe. I guess they thought that either mutants had become too accepted in the universe, or there wasn't a valid enough reason for their persecution. So the idea was to wash away the complacency of the characters, kill off a bunch of mutants, and trigger a mutant/human war.
At least, that's the impression I get.
The Overlord
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What's the point of heighten the mutant/human conflict if they canceled UXM and killed of most of the major X-Men heroes and villains? How are they supposed to follow up on that plot point?
I mean what would you do with an UXM title at this point, introduce Ultimate Thunderbird and have him fight Ultimate Unus the untouchable?
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Sacred&Profane
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Unus was already killed by Loeb in Ultimates 3 #4.
The Overlord
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Well I was just being ironic, but there you go Loeb ensured that it will be almost no way to follow up on the renewed human/mutant conflict.
ultimatedjf
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I think that one of the biggest problems with Ultimatum (and I realize that it had many, large problems) is that an event like that is simply too big for modern comics. We can assume that Ultimatum affected as many people in the UU, if not more, than Hurricane Katrina did in reality. People were still talking about it three years later and it certainly still affects people today. Here is the problem: in order to have the realistic 3 year recovery period (in Ultimate comics time) that Ultimatum ought to have, it would have to influence Ultimate comics for at least the next 48 years (real time), if the same time conversion of 8 years real time = 1/2 year ultimate comics time remains true.
I highly doubt it would even make it past three years in real time because:
1: most of the writers probably want to forget Ultimatum as soon as possible
2: those that don't (otherwise known as Loeb and... uh... Loeb) will probably forget about Ultimatum
3: I know that I, and presumably many other readers would want to hear about Ultimatum for the next three years.
There are, therefore, two options.
1: the UU takes the hit. It would not be the worst thing, after all time is a flexible thing in comics.
2: Ultimatum is retconned. Should this be the case, I think that the most likely scenario is that Loeb will think that the best way to get Giant Man back for one story is to just make Ultimatum go away.
And on an unrelated note: why couldn't Magician just stop it from happening?
I highly doubt it would even make it past three years in real time because:
1: most of the writers probably want to forget Ultimatum as soon as possible
2: those that don't (otherwise known as Loeb and... uh... Loeb) will probably forget about Ultimatum
3: I know that I, and presumably many other readers would want to hear about Ultimatum for the next three years.
There are, therefore, two options.
1: the UU takes the hit. It would not be the worst thing, after all time is a flexible thing in comics.
2: Ultimatum is retconned. Should this be the case, I think that the most likely scenario is that Loeb will think that the best way to get Giant Man back for one story is to just make Ultimatum go away.
And on an unrelated note: why couldn't Magician just stop it from happening?
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moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
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That's actually an interesting point.
When we were asked to bring in an example of a really, really bad comic in my Graphic Forms class, I brought Ultimates 3 #1. There was I think one other guy who had read Millar's Ultimates, and he kept nodding as I was trying to get across how huge of a jump in immaturity and silliness the book had made with this issue. One point I made was that in Ultimates Vol. 1, there is no epic superhero battle until five issues into the series, and it's handled as a strategically planned military operation and the consequences of the battle and 500 people dying is treated as a tragedy and something that has to be recovered from. In Ultimates 3, Venom smashes through a wall a couple of pages into the issue and everyone start punching him.
The idea of writing a relatively grounded take on a superhero universe was such an interesting concept but when you throw around massive tragedies like they're nothing, you completely pull the story out of any semblance of reality. You have to be willing to commit to these kinds of things. In Miracleman, Kid Miracleman murders - often, individually, by hand, and as graphically as you could possibly imagine - 40,000 men, women, and children, and destroys half of London. Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman subsequently treated this unimaginable horror, basically a superhero holocaust that took only a few hours, rightfully as one of the most devastating and important events in the course of human history, because they'd committed to writing a book that had some basis in reality. They were trying to show just how terrible superhuman beings existing in the real world could be. Ultimates seemed to start out with similar intentions but all that's been squandered. It's just more typical superhero books, unnecessary ones at that.
It's depressing that they could take something like the Ultimate Universe and literally strip it of all the things that were supposed to make it unique. They might as well retcon Peter into having been bitten by a radioactive spider and have Tony carry his armor in a briefcase.
When we were asked to bring in an example of a really, really bad comic in my Graphic Forms class, I brought Ultimates 3 #1. There was I think one other guy who had read Millar's Ultimates, and he kept nodding as I was trying to get across how huge of a jump in immaturity and silliness the book had made with this issue. One point I made was that in Ultimates Vol. 1, there is no epic superhero battle until five issues into the series, and it's handled as a strategically planned military operation and the consequences of the battle and 500 people dying is treated as a tragedy and something that has to be recovered from. In Ultimates 3, Venom smashes through a wall a couple of pages into the issue and everyone start punching him.
The idea of writing a relatively grounded take on a superhero universe was such an interesting concept but when you throw around massive tragedies like they're nothing, you completely pull the story out of any semblance of reality. You have to be willing to commit to these kinds of things. In Miracleman, Kid Miracleman murders - often, individually, by hand, and as graphically as you could possibly imagine - 40,000 men, women, and children, and destroys half of London. Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman subsequently treated this unimaginable horror, basically a superhero holocaust that took only a few hours, rightfully as one of the most devastating and important events in the course of human history, because they'd committed to writing a book that had some basis in reality. They were trying to show just how terrible superhuman beings existing in the real world could be. Ultimates seemed to start out with similar intentions but all that's been squandered. It's just more typical superhero books, unnecessary ones at that.
It's depressing that they could take something like the Ultimate Universe and literally strip it of all the things that were supposed to make it unique. They might as well retcon Peter into having been bitten by a radioactive spider and have Tony carry his armor in a briefcase.
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