Ultimatization ideas

compound said:
I'm with MwoF on this one.

In fact, the whole "obsessive stalker takes on increasingly extreme behavior" WAS an attempt to "beef up" Whirlwind's character to tell a more "gritty" story within 616. And it turned out to be one of the most exploitative, sensationalized -- and worst of all -- uninteresting plots, in recent memory:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6010

Some characters just don't need an immediate Ultimization.

Heck, I'm convinced that Bendis used so many fresh approaches to classic DD villains and plot elements during his run on Daredevil, I don't even feel the need for a well-developed version of Ultimate Daredevil -- what more a second-tier also-ran like the ****ing Whirlwind.
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No, you are incorrect the stalker thing existed since at least at the 1970s and 1980s, in Avengers # 139 when he stalked the Wasp as she lay dying in a hospital bed. Also Whirlwind even went so far as to establish a longtime double identity as Van Dyne's chauffeur, Charles to stalk her in the 1970s and
1980s. Face it Whirlwind has been a psycho stalker for most of his career.

As for your other point, I might remind that this sepculation forum, where we speculate on how any character could be Ultimized, so your comments on how Whirlwind should not Ultimatized are itrrelevant because it is just speculation.
 
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TheManWithoutFear said:
People see Wanda and Pietro not being related to Magneto and they're gonna be ticked off a bit. This is a more essential subplot/relation to the character. Magneto's a bigger character.

Whirlwind? Who cares?
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Wasp and Giant Man are second string heroes and they kept the and expanded the whole wife beating from the 616 universe. How is keeping Whirlwind a psycho stalker any different?
 
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The Overlord said:
Face it Whirlwind has been a psycho stalker for most of his career.
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Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was referring specifically to the misguided attempt to make him more "gritty" and "extreme" by having him beat up paid hookers dressed up like Janet, and attempting to rape her while on holiday.

And yes, for those of you who are unfamiliar, those are actual 616 Avengers spoilers... from two whole years ago.

Personally, I'd rather wait until everybody has forgotten that tasteless debacle before attempting to make Whirlwind into a serious character.
 
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compound said:
Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was referring specifically to the misguided attempt to make him more "gritty" and "extreme" by having him beat up paid hookers dressed up like Janet, and attempting to rape her while on holiday.

And yes, for those of you who are unfamiliar, those are actual 616 Avengers spoilers... from two whole years ago.
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Well there is matters of degrees of course, Ultimate Whirlwind can still be a stalker without resorting that kind of really exetreme behaviour.
 
compound said:
Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was referring specifically to the misguided attempt to make him more "gritty" and "extreme" by having him beat up paid hookers dressed up like Janet, and attempting to rape her while on holiday.

And yes, for those of you who are unfamiliar, those are actual 616 Avengers spoilers... from two whole years ago.

Personally, I'd rather wait until everybody has forgotten that tasteless debacle before attempting to make Whirlwind into a serious character.
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Not to mention Hank shrinking down to six inches and going underneath Jan's blanket, which causes her to grab the bedsheet and moan. I wonder what he was doing... ;)
 
Here is another Ultimatization idea:

Ultimate Masters of Evil:

After nearly managing to defeat the Ultimates one time, the Masters of Evil are back. With a new line-up of Baron Zemo, Mad Thinker, Whirlwind, Beetle-Robot, Radioactive Man, Wrecker and Tiger Shark, they intend on breaking up the Ultimates. Whether they are more powerful than the original line-up.... has yet to be seen.

I'll keep contributing my ideas for Ultimate villains and heroes, and Masters of Evil members as well!
 
Ultimate Incredibles said:
Here is another Ultimatization idea:

Ultimate Masters of Evil:

After nearly managing to defeat the Ultimates one time, the Masters of Evil are back. With a new line-up of Baron Zemo, Mad Thinker, Whirlwind, Beetle-Robot, Radioactive Man, Wrecker and Tiger Shark, they intend on breaking up the Ultimates. Whether they are more powerful than the original line-up.... has yet to be seen.

I'll keep contributing my ideas for Ultimate villains and heroes, and Masters of Evil members as well!
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I don't think the name "Masters of Evil" would work in the Ultimate Universe.
 
Hellsbuttmonkey said:
Can you really do that? Is it a magical ***? and more importantly do you sell Bendis the poop? Is that where Geldoff came from?
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Yes, yes, and yes.
 
You know I think Egghead could work in the Ultimates titles, of course you would have to ditch the lame "super villain" name and the egg shaped head. Just introduce him as Dr. Elihas Starr, a SHIELD scientist who secretly sells SHIELD technology to rogue nations and terrorist groups.
 
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The Overlord said:
I don't see why a subplot from the 616 universe should not be carried over to Ultimate Universe if it fits in the tone of the title in question.
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I agree that the subplot can still be carried over, actually. I don't know anything about the Whirlwind. I know I pooh-poohed your Ultimatization, but my problem isn't him being a stalker, it was the logic of the phrase 'stalkers are realistic' that I had a problem with. And I disagree with everyone who is shooting you down saying that fourth-tier characters aren't worth Ultimatizing.

I also don't understand MWOF's logic that just because Wanda and Pietro are BIGGER characters than Whirlwind then elements like their relationship to Magneto should be kept because people are "gonna be ticked off a bit". Instead, Wanda and Pietro's relationship to Magneto should be kept because it's actually INTERESTING and worth developing into something.

Me, I think psycho stalker Whirlwind in the UU won't work in the Ultimates (especially if it retains its geopolitical thematic flavoring). Instead, I'd just let him do his stalker thing in a book like Ultimate X-Men, where it'd work with the sociopoltical themes. Whether or not he actually has any powers or gimmick is something else altogether.
 
The Overlord said:
I don't think the name "Masters of Evil" would work in the Ultimate Universe.
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I said this before, in another thread, and i'll say it again here...

Was it not just as recent as the 2002 State of the Nation Address that a democratically elected President referred to three soveriegn 'rogue' states as the "Axis of Evil". Sure, people mocked him for it. But the fact that it was said at all still means countless speech-writers, advisors, and consultants had no problem with the term.

I, for one, would not find it stupid if we see a news report or press briefing during Grand Theft America in which the President, or even Cap, refers to the invaders as "Masters of Evil hoping to undermine the freedom and liberty of the United States". Or something like that.

If we're willing to accept *either* a lunatic with a hi-tech hammer OR a living, breathing Norse God; if we're willing to accept a chemically enhanced supersoldier emerging from decades of suspended animation; if we're willing to accept a vegetarian scientist turning into a man-eating gray behemoth; if we're willing to accept a billionaire playboy industrialist with BRAIN CELLS ALL OVER HIS BODY, then why is a group dubbed the 'Masters of Evil' really such a dumb idea?
 
compound said:
I said this before, in another thread, and i'll say it again here...

Was it not just as recent as the 2002 State of the Nation Address that a democratically elected President referred to three soveriegn 'rogue' states as the "Axis of Evil". Sure, people mocked him for it. But the fact that it was said at all still means countless speech-writers, advisors, and consultants had no problem with the term.

I, for one, would not find it stupid if we see a news report or press briefing during Grand Theft America in which the President, or even Cap, refers to the invaders as "Masters of Evil hoping to undermine the freedom and liberty of the United States". Or something like that.

If we're willing to accept *either* a lunatic with a hi-tech hammer OR a living, breathing Norse God; if we're willing to accept a chemically enhanced supersoldier emerging from decades of suspended animation; if we're willing to accept a vegetarian scientist turning into a man-eating gray behemoth; if we're willing to accept a billionaire playboy industrialist with BRAIN CELLS ALL OVER HIS BODY, then why is a group dubbed the 'Masters of Evil' really such a dumb idea?
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I suppose Bush or Cap could refer to them as the Masters of Evil, but they shouldn't refer to themselves by that title.
 
ourchair said:
I agree that the subplot can still be carried over, actually. I don't know anything about the Whirlwind. I know I pooh-poohed your Ultimatization, but my problem isn't him being a stalker, it was the logic of the phrase 'stalkers are realistic' that I had a problem with. And I disagree with everyone who is shooting you down saying that fourth-tier characters aren't worth Ultimatizing.

I also don't understand MWOF's logic that just because Wanda and Pietro are BIGGER characters than Whirlwind then elements like their relationship to Magneto should be kept because people are "gonna be ticked off a bit". Instead, Wanda and Pietro's relationship to Magneto should be kept because it's actually INTERESTING and worth developing into something.

Me, I think psycho stalker Whirlwind in the UU won't work in the Ultimates (especially if it retains its geopolitical thematic flavoring). Instead, I'd just let him do his stalker thing in a book like Ultimate X-Men, where it'd work with the sociopoltical themes. Whether or not he actually has any powers or gimmick is something else altogether.
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Alright, I'm reasonable Whirlwind could be a mutant who is stalking one of the X-girls. Wait strach that, they alright did a stalker thing with Juggernaut and Rogue, so that won't work.
 
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The Overlord said:
I don't think the name "Masters of Evil" would work in the Ultimate Universe.
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That was my initial thought, but I recall Bass coming up with an excellent treatment for that. If US TV is calling these 'terrorists' an Axis of evil then why would masters not work also?
 
Guijllons said:
That was my initial thought, but I recall Bass coming up with an excellent treatment for that. If US TV is calling these 'terrorists' an Axis of evil then why would masters not work also?
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Dude, that was me, I believe. And I re-posted my statement about it in this exact thread. Scroll up to Post #53!
 
Here are two "Masters" members profiles:

Ultimate Radioactive Man:

Chen Lu was a Professor in the field of Radioactivity. His colleauges became jealous of him and decided to kill him. Their attempt failed when Lu fell into a testing area, and was seriously injured. A year later, Lu emerged from the accident, and found his body turned into a green substance. He decided to become a "big" supervillain and became the Radioactive Man. One day, the Beetle-Robot witnessed Radioactive Man battle the entire army alone, and won. After this, Radioactive Man became a member of the Masters.

Ultimate Tiger Shark:

Not much is known about Tiger Shark, execpt that he was a mutant who discovered his powers at a young age. He soon decided to use his powers for his own good and became Tiger Shark. Zemo himself witnessed Tiger Shark robbing a jelwery store and made the first member of the Masters.

I'll have more on the Masters of Evil, with profiles on Baron Zemo, the Beetle-Robot and Wrecker.
 
The Overlord said:
Just make David Cannon a mutant who who can spin at super speed, he is obessed with the Wasp and decides to "rescue" her from Captain America, who he sees as a flat scan thug. Whirlwind wears a trench coat filled with throwing knifes, that he throws while spinning.
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I'm sorry, but I don't like the idea that Whilrwind is a mutant. I just gives the character a weak side. Do anything with Whirlwind, execpt make him a mutant.
 
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