Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

On Millarworld, they've got a good list...

Apparently, the Anti-Thor is the Slavic God of Thunder, who weilds a hammer and sickle...
 
Wow, I didn't get to read the issue but checked out the penciled/inked pages on that link and cannot wait to actually read it with some dialogue. What an amazing issue. A Black Widow nipple shot (Doc Comic will be drooling, and probably worse, over this comic for months). Tony and Jarvis each getting a bullet in the head. Black Widow being the traitor (though I honestly saw that coming along with many others). The Triskelion getting destroyed. The Ultimates basically powerless against the onslaught. Nick Friggin' Fury losing an arm (that was very satisfying...now all he needs to do is lose a leg, a testicle, a nipple, and an ***-cheeck and everything he had two of to begin with is gone!). Then the adversaries (I don't know their "official" name yet, so I'll just call them the Commies ;) ) the Commies push the Statue of Liberty into the frigging water! How symbolic is that?!?! We see massive destruction all throughout New York City, and even the Baxter Building appears to be on fire on page 26. The final page was great too, the full page spread of the Anti-Ultimates, er, Commies, complete with Loki there at the front. Man, I really can't wait to read this issue. My preliminary review is a 5/5, doesn't get better than that. While the traitor reveal wasn't necessarily a big surprise, everything else surely was. No one saw Tony or Jarvis getting knocked off. No one saw Loki being a major part of it (so many people thought Loki would have nothing to do with this portion of the story...just didn't understand that at all). No one saw the Statue of Liberty becoming a nicely sculpted piece of coral.

As for timeline placements, I'll be doing some re-arranging of the comics, as an event like this would have to be mentioned, even off-handed, in the other books, especially UFF, as Millar writes that also and he obviously chose to have Hitch show that shot of the Baxter Building on fire on page 26 for some reason, hopefully more than just as a nod. Anyway, check out the timeline for some pretty big changes in terms of placement (at least for the current arcs).
 
implications for Ultimates 3

Incidentally, I doubt Widow would have any reason to use tranq bullets on Tony, since the plan she orchestrated was about to be set into motion.

I guess now would be a good time for Millar to pull out his one allowable suspension-of-disbelief moment for this series, by arbitrarily reminding us about Tony's healing factor from the UIM mini.

I can see Jarvis being left dead, but I'm fairly certain that Loeb has confirmed that he plans to address Tony's tumor as a major plot point in U3, yes? I have no doubt that he'll make it out of GTA alive.

Oh, and one-armed Fury sounds like a horrible lead-in for a kewl Joe-Mad-ified cybernetic replacement. Definitely NOT a good thing.
 
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Another thing I'm wondering is what the heck happened to Jan? I mean, we saw her unconcious right after the Trisk fell, but where was she during the fight? Unless she's suffering from brain damage or something, I would think an all out super-war happening right above her head would have woken her up to at least do something. Pym and his role have yet to be seen, yet he has been meeting with Jan. She was the one who sent Cap basically walking out into an ambush. Is she in on this too? Or, if Hank is planning a double-double cross is she in on THAT end and going to be responsible for turning the tide. By, I don't know, maybe sneaking away during the fracas to release Cap and Thor.
 
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Re: implications for Ultimates 3

Guijllons said:
First thing I thought of was when the troops in Iraq toppled the statue of Saddam Hussain.
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Ooohhh, good point, didn't even think of that. How's that for some ironic symbolism? Admit it Guij, you're giddy as a school-boy to see not only this issue in person, but the rest of this arc as well. And I mean hiccup-inducing giddy. Possibly even vomit-inducing.

compound said:
Incidentally, I doubt Widow would have any reason to use tranq bullets on Tony, since the plan she orchestrated was about to be set into motion.

I guess now would be a good time for Millar to pull out his one allowable suspension-of-disbelief moment for this series, by arbitrarily reminding us about Tony's healing factor from the UIM mini.

I can see Jarvis being left dead, but I'm fairly certain that Loeb has confirmed that he plans to address Tony's tumor as a major plot point in U3, yes? I have no doubt that he'll make it out of GTA alive.

Oh, and one-armed Fury sounds like a horrible lead-in for a kewl Joe-Mad-ified cybernetic replacement. Definitely NOT a good thing.
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I agree on all points. Tony will be left standing (or at least alive) by arc's end, and no doubt Fury will be sporting some type of cybernetic arm in Ultimates 3, maybe designed by either Reed Richards or Sam Wilson (Ultimate Falcon).


As for who the Anti-Ultimates/Ultimate Masters of Evil/"Whatever the hell they're called" are, here's a list someone posted on Millarworld, with a minor adjustment made by me to include Red Skull (for some reason they left out the most obvious member):

1. Loki
2. Red Skull
3. Abomination
4. Crimson Dynamo
5. Vanguard
6. Gargoyle
7. Unknown (possibly original character)
8. Unknown (possibly original character)
 
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Entropy said:
By, I don't know, maybe sneaking away during the fracas to release Cap and Thor.
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You might be on to some thing -- she's obviosuly got the right power for it! The REAL question is, how long will we have to wait to find out? :p
 
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Im at a lost for words. It was so good. Anti ultimates are ****ing awesome. Red Skull has a freaking lightsaber. And Loki and Thor are definately gods. Looks like Loki is trying to get WWIII started

:rockon:
 
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I'm going ignorant first and posting my thoughts then I'll look through what you guys said.

I haven't bought single issues since I moved down here (Philly). I read through this and had to take it home with me. It was just that good. But you all know this already.

The whole Hawkeye interrogation scene just gets better with the rest of the issue. Hawkeye's being tortured and really I would love to see Ultimates 3 open up with a rescue mission. But that's later. There's a lot to discuss.

Jarvis is a great character. Now the art isn't perfect for Black Widow but I'm wondering if she feels guilty about what's about to happen.

Quicksilver has really taken a commanding role since the beginning when they would sit quietly and say nothing. Damn he's so cool. Minimal Jan here just proofs she's really just a drama queen. Which isn't a bad thing I like this Jan just being in it for the celebrity status.

The images of the The Trisk being taken down is awesome. Great work by Hitch.

And the revealation. Black Widow. So let me get this straight. I said Loki didn't leak the info. I said it was Black Widow working for someone else. And I said it something like what? A year ago. I don't want a prize I want an apology from a certain member (don't worry I'll apologize to a different member later). But holy hell, this is how Black Widow should be done topless, hott as hell, on top, and holding a gun to your head. I'm only sad because I don't see any redemption here. She killed Jarvis, she killed Hawkeye's family. Gentlemen meet the Alpha *****. How's Tony gonna survive?

More Wonderful destruction. And Quicksilver kicking ***. And Wanda shows that her powers are not that easy and take more than a snap of the fingers. The calculating was really a nice add. But holy hell Fury lost an arm!!!

The reserves show up and get destoryed. I mean the anti-supersoldiers are flying through Giant-Men! THROUGH THEM!!! I want to note that these guys are wearing green*

Thor... Sweet Odin's Raven, what a moment.

Pure Pietro. No I doubt he's dead just injured.

Enter the Anti-Ultimates. Cool. Red Skull is just a guy with a red helmut and aparently has some morales? Loki is behind it all. I was hopeing he wouldn't be but he's the commanding officer it looks like.

Now I'll apologize to Lynx. It is Crimson Dynamo. But I hate the double Ultimization. I thought the guy in Nightmare was good enough and my deduction's of who they were was justified but I was wrong. Sorry for the debate. Anyway! Loki's whole Norse God speech sort of nails it. Thor's not crazy and he's a god of some sorts. Go on and say that they might be an alien species or something, I don't care they think they're Norse Gods and that's what they are.

The Statue of Liberty falls down and I'm sad :cry:

Big splash of the rest of the Anti-Ultimates. Few things. That's not a hulk ripoff. That's a Green Goblin ripoff. And they go on about all the different countries but there's one that involved the Green Goblin. Latveria is still involved in this. And It's better if they don't seem like they're at the head of it because it's more in their political nature that way. Do you agree?

Second. Tell me Ultron's got roboboobs and horns? What the ****....

Amazing issue. Amazing. 5/5 Easy Now for my political rant which will surprise you.

I have opened my eyes.

For the past few months I have hated Mark Millar for what I thought was anti-american symbolism throughout his Ultimates run.

At first I bought this issue walked out of the LCS and headed back to school in a hurry to get to my class. It's about a 25 minute walk. I'm passing by the skyscrapers of Philadelphia and I'm mixing the imagery Hitch gave us with it. Millar had all of these countries ban together to take down "The Great Satan". Now I was pissed as usual. A great read but I was just downright upset. Why do people pick on America. I'm looking at the decent people on the streets and think that just because of a stupid President people are actually willing to blow buildings up. It's not fair and it's not right and anyone who thinks that that's how it should be is just a ****in' jerk.

Then it hit me...

All of these countries ganged up on America. All of them following Loki. A god who represents chaos and evil. America isn't being portrayed as the bad guys. They're the victims. Captain America was accused as the traitor and he wasn't. He's gonna get out and kick *** eventually. But they won't do it alone. There's countries that didn't side with the Loki's plan. The Union is gonna come into play and help us too. He's depicting America and it's allies as the good guys and the other countries as ignorant. Mark Millar is a goddamn genius. I only feel bad for the other countries that he named because he's making them out to be stupid, naive, and evil. It should never be thought that a country as a whole is bad. That's why Latveria is safe to fall back on they were created to be evil. I apologize to Mark Millar for hateing him so much. I now understand what he's been trying to do here all along and I applaud this comic. It's the reason I signed up for reading them again and for this site. It's pure brilliance incarnated into a comic book.
*Tears of joy*

Other notes. I'm really hopeing Hank Pym steps in as Giant-Man sees what the traitor's plan really is and starts knocking the other Giant-Men down. Along with Vision II.

I'm pretty troubled about how Galactus coming and then this happening without any mention of the former is really taking place. I mean Galactus is a big deal and New York should be getting ripped up for the second time in what months?

again perfect comic 5/5
 
Poor Jarvis.

He died just as he was providing an hilarious gag with his quail's egg and a magnifying glass instead of an Ostrich egg. He actually had a magnifying glass on the platter. This is just great comedy. But instead of a killer joke, he just got a killer. Sniff.

Quicksilver is really in top shape in this issue. I love how he was taking down the giant robots.

The giant men aren't tougher than Hank Pym! You saw how useless they were? Punched through. I was especially amused by the one that got a flyer punching through one ear, the breain and then out from the other ear. And the enemies flyer were a hell of a lot more efficient than SHIELDs. Just more powerful, more trained or both? Personnally, I see it a lot like getting routed by heavy cavalry. Even if you are heavy cavalry yourself, if you are in a defensive stance without defensive structure and they are charching, you are toast.

The devastation inflicted on New York is far worse than during the Hulk rampage. They toppled the Statue of Liberty! Like you would topple a statue of Stalin or Saddam. That was mean!

That red hooded guy looks like a geek, wearing tights, holding a camera and a darth maul replica of a lightsaber.

I guess most of the people speculating on the ID of the guys on issue 10 cover were right. Crimson Dynamo was formerly named and I'm guessing the monster is Abomination. He looks like he could take the Hulk. But he certainly sat on his *** during the invasion though. Not sure who the two girls are supposed to be.

More babble about Loki being a real God but damn it, why is Thor crying in his cell if he really is a God! We just saw a guy wearing Thor's Belt and Hammer doing the full Thor Routine. If Thor has no Power without the belt, and if a nameless dude has all his power with the Belt, than damn it, what's the point of being a god!

Anyway, I was entertained. I want more, more!

Oh yeah, and I am in the club (fairly large) of the people who called Widow as the Traitor. Since I also called the Mystique/Mag swap and that Longshot would save Angel weeks before each of these events, I move to be named President of the "I called it!" club. This position comes with an endless reserve of pat on the back, smirks and "I told you so.

Oh, and Fury and Betty Ross were holding hands when it got scary!

Bendis has a thing for interracial couple + the love triangle if Banner resurface would be great so I expect them to soon be a couple.

4.5/5

Art was great as ever. Characterization was good. Last pages were a little weak.
 
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I so hope that Wasp will say the day by blasting the brain out of loki. I also hope that Hawkeye will put some arrows in the head of Widow. Or well, i know he will.
 
I gotta say it again, I was REALLY pleased with the way Quicksilver (and Scarlet Witch) were portrayed. I wonder if Millar just felt SO bad about the way their 616 counterparts were being treated, he had to show us that these characters are worth a damn and can kick *** and take names. Oh, and I love the way he does Wanda's powers, same as in issue #7. Incredibly powerful but incredibly volatile and she actually has limits and such. That's the way to treat your deus ex machina types. Just had to restate that again, and I'm hoping Hawkeye gets loose in #10 to reshow the fact he probably is THE biggest badass in the world. I also hopes he just tears that Doctor dudes throat out with his bare hands and is like, "Who said I need something in my hands to be dangerous, *****?"
 
slimjim said:
Red Double Bladed Lightsaber!
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Well, when you're up against a guy with an impenatrable shield as a weapon, it makes sense to come prepared ;). Anyways, from the sound of it, Millar is going with a very different characterization of The Red Skull than we're used to, and this pleases me. He sounds alot like, well, Cap. Not the evil, megalomanical, Nazi we're used to, not even as a hardcore commie or something, just a guy who basically seems to be in the same position and maybe even share the same principles as Cap. He's just working for the other side. Personally, I think if this bares out, it's a far better and more interesting route to pursue.
 
Re: implications for Ultimates 3

DIrishB said:
Admit it Guij, you're giddy as a school-boy to see not only this issue in person, but the rest of this arc as well. And I mean hiccup-inducing giddy. Possibly even vomit-inducing.
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Nope, but I did skip a little.
MyWrinkledOldFairy said:
All of these countries ganged up on America. All of them following Loki. A god who represents chaos and evil. America isn't being portrayed as the bad guys. They're the victims. Captain America was accused as the traitor and he wasn't. He's gonna get out and kick *** eventually. But they won't do it alone. There's countries that didn't side with the Loki's plan. The Union is gonna come into play and help us too. He's depicting America and it's allies as the good guys and the other countries as ignorant. Mark Millar is a goddamn genius. I only feel bad for the other countries that he named because he's making them out to be stupid, naive, and evil. It should never be thought that a country as a whole is bad. That's why Latveria is safe to fall back on they were created to be evil. I apologize to Mark Millar for hateing him so much. I now understand what he's been trying to do here all along and I applaud this comic. It's the reason I signed up for reading them again and for this site. It's pure brilliance incarnated into a comic book.
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The countries weren't just getting revenge for acts America has inflicted on them then?
 
Really, dont mark spoilers since its in the thread title. If no one wants to be spoiled, they shouldnt be in this thread in the first place.
 
Re: implications for Ultimates 3

TheManWithoutFear said:
No. What has America done to Russia and China? They attacked because they feared America and that fear was probably a product of Loki's persuasion.
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*sigh* I'm not going to waste my time detailing this. Go to http://www.zmag.org/search/index.cfm and indymedia.org and use 'China' or 'Russia' as search terms. Not the most blanced news sources, I admit, but no less skewed than anyhting you'll find on FOX, in terms of perspective. But I trust they would have their basic facts straight. That's the last i'll say about that.
 
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Red Hood guy is an Arab, maybe?

Great Satan is a pretty distinct terminology not used much outside of muslim fundamentalist.
 
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