Ultimate X-Men #76 Discussion *spoilers*

Ice said:
She didn't come to the school to only control her powers. That's what her MOTHER wanted. She wanted to go on missions and be all superhero.
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Kitty actually did initially come to the school to control her powers only but once the X-men gave her a rundown of the place and what they do, she also wanted to play superhero. But with that said, there's a difference between playing superhero and then getting attacked in your own house seemingly week after week.
 
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you are nit-picking the content of what she said while ignoring the meaning.

"This place sucks. I came here to learn to control my powers--not use them to fight crazy dudes every week. I'm not involuntarily falling through floors like I was. I don't know if I need this place anymore. I certainly don't like it."

She DID join the school to learn to control her powers, the adventure seemed exciting and fun at first, but she was here primarily so she wouldn't accidentally fall through the floor on any given occasion. Once she started to figure out her powers, i'm sure she loved the celebrity of it, but at the same time... Right after she joined the team she was with Wolverine when he left Cyclops to die... her first "mission" was with a known and feared killer who, as she soon found out, actually tried to kill one of her partners. then she became an outlaw, and was hunted down by both Magneto and the Ultimates. Then, one of her teammates died. And unlike in 616, she has no reason to suspect beast will come back to life...Then a Serial Killing scientist broke into the school trying to kill them... They were hunted as prey on a subsaharan african island by a TV mogol...Some crazy twin businessmen tried to abduct one of her teammates...Then Magneto, with his homicidal grudge against the X-Men, almost escaped again (she doesnt know its not the real magneto in captivity)... ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS would be reason enough for a young girl (younger than the rest of her teammates, you have to remember) to decide that DESPITE THE FACT that she wanted some fun superhero adventures at first, that this was far too much for her.

Most of all she's trying to convince herself to leave, and she's rationalizing ths situation, like LOTS of teenagers do. She's loved aspects of the school, but she can't take it anymore

Like, imagine a teenager dropping an ice cream, and then saying to herself, "**** it. I don't even like ice cream all that much anyways."

You are paying too much attention to the wording and not enough to the meaning.

I think this is one of the most interesting things they could have done with Kitty, whom I think many writers didnt know what to do with.

EDIT: Just checked... She was 14 when she joined the team. Somehow I think that needs to be taken into account.
 
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Dr.Strangefate said:
you are nit-picking the content of what she said while ignoring the meaning.

"This place sucks. I came here to learn to control my powers--not use them to fight crazy dudes every week. I'm not involuntarily falling through floors like I was. I don't know if I need this place andymore. I certainly don't like it."

She DID join the school to learn to control her powers, the adventure seemed exciting and fun at first, but she was here primarily so she wouldn't accidentally fall through the floor on any given occasion. Once she started to figure out her powers, i'm sure she loved the celebrity of it, but at the same time... Right after she joined the team she was with Wolverine when he left Cyclops to die... her first "mission" was with a known and feared killer who, as she soon found out, actually tried to kill one of her partners. then she became an outlaw, and was hunted down by both Magneto and the Ultimates. Then, one of her teammates died. And unlike in 616, she has no reason to suspect beast will come back to life...Then a Serial Killing scientist broke into the school trying to kill them... They were hunted as prey on a subsaharan african island by a TV mogol...Some crazy twin businessmen tried to abduct one of her teammates...Then Magneto, with his homicidal grudge against the X-Men, almost escaped again (she doesnt know its not the real magneto in captivity)... ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS would be reason enough for a young girl (younger than the rest of her teammates, you have to remember) to decide that DESPITE THE FACT that she wanted some fun superhero adventures at first, that this was far too much for her.

Most of all she's trying to convince herself to leave, and she's rationalizing ths situation, like LOTS of teenagers do. She's loved aspects of the school, but she can't take it anymore

Like, imagine a teenager dropping an ice cream, and then saying to herself, "**** it. I don't even like ice cream all that much anyways."

You are paying too much attention to the wording and not enough to the meaning.

I think this is one of the most interesting things they could have done with Kitty, whom I think many writers didnt know what to do with.

EDIT: Just checked... She was 14 when she joined the team. Somehow I think that needs to be taken into account.
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Sometimes you make me wish I was gay, Strangefate.
 
I love the arc. I'm fine with the fact that Cable is Wolverine. I also enjoy the Terminator angle with Bishop and Cable.

And Ultimate Six Pack. Awesome.
 
Finally read this today - very good issue. I was pretty leery of Cable and Wolverine being the same person but somehow this works.

X-Force at the end?! Huh - wasn't expecting that.

I thought it was cool that both Bishop and Cable are old and weathered. I like my heroes vulnerable. Good stuff.

4/5
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
her first "mission" was with a known and feared killer who, as she soon found out, actually tried to kill one of her partners. then she became an outlaw, and was hunted down by both Magneto and the Ultimates. Then, one of her teammates died. And unlike in 616, she has no reason to suspect beast will come back to life...Then a Serial Killing scientist broke into the school trying to kill them... They were hunted as prey on a subsaharan african island by a TV mogol...Some crazy twin businessmen tried to abduct one of her teammates...Then Magneto, with his homicidal grudge against the X-Men, almost escaped again (she doesnt know its not the real magneto in captivity)... ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS would be reason enough for a young girl (younger than the rest of her teammates, you have to remember) to decide that DESPITE THE FACT that she wanted some fun superhero adventures at first, that this was far too much for her.
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The reason she never got too freaked until this moment is that in every other nasty situation, she was always as good as invulnerable, and the danger never seemed real to her. Mission 1: Cyclops "dies" and she is sad, but feels it couldn't happen to her. Outlawed? They can't really get to her, and people more powerful than she is are working to fix it. Beast? He didn't have her power, and it's bad for him, but "it won't happen to me." This is how teenagers think. They look at car wrecks, death, and problems their peers get themselves into and think, "It won't happen to me." They rationalize.

I like that she finally has found out her own mortality. That's what teens do: they feel invulnerable until they get way too close to tragedy. I love it.

I don't think Kirkman made a mistake: I think he's spot-on with Kitty in-denial, finally coming to grips with her own mortality.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
you are nit-picking the content of what she said while ignoring the meaning.

"This place sucks. I came here to learn to control my powers--not use them to fight crazy dudes every week. I'm not involuntarily falling through floors like I was. I don't know if I need this place anymore. I certainly don't like it."

She DID join the school to learn to control her powers, the adventure seemed exciting and fun at first, but she was here primarily so she wouldn't accidentally fall through the floor on any given occasion. Once she started to figure out her powers, i'm sure she loved the celebrity of it, but at the same time... Right after she joined the team she was with Wolverine when he left Cyclops to die... her first "mission" was with a known and feared killer who, as she soon found out, actually tried to kill one of her partners. then she became an outlaw, and was hunted down by both Magneto and the Ultimates. Then, one of her teammates died. And unlike in 616, she has no reason to suspect beast will come back to life...Then a Serial Killing scientist broke into the school trying to kill them... They were hunted as prey on a subsaharan african island by a TV mogol...Some crazy twin businessmen tried to abduct one of her teammates...Then Magneto, with his homicidal grudge against the X-Men, almost escaped again (she doesnt know its not the real magneto in captivity)... ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS would be reason enough for a young girl (younger than the rest of her teammates, you have to remember) to decide that DESPITE THE FACT that she wanted some fun superhero adventures at first, that this was far too much for her.

Most of all she's trying to convince herself to leave, and she's rationalizing ths situation, like LOTS of teenagers do. She's loved aspects of the school, but she can't take it anymore

Like, imagine a teenager dropping an ice cream, and then saying to herself, "**** it. I don't even like ice cream all that much anyways."

You are paying too much attention to the wording and not enough to the meaning.

I think this is one of the most interesting things they could have done with Kitty, whom I think many writers didnt know what to do with.

EDIT: Just checked... She was 14 when she joined the team. Somehow I think that needs to be taken into account.
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All I'm saying is that she acted like she never wanted to be in these situations when she did.
 
Ice said:
All I'm saying is that she acted like she never wanted to be in these situations when she did.
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She's just rationalizing. It's like saying "I never wanted to do this ****!" After being hired on to a job you applied for. Of course you did at one time, and now you're rationalizing. It's in character, no flaw on Kirkman. Solid issue, nothing can be nitpick legitly.
 
Foolsfolly said:
She's just rationalizing. It's like saying "I never wanted to do this ****!" After being hired on to a job you applied for. Of course you did at one time, and now you're rationalizing. It's in character, no flaw on Kirkman. Solid issue, nothing can be nitpick legitly.
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But from what it looked like, didn't seem like no rationalizing.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
That was before she's been only inches away from death... and to a degree im sure she thought herself to be invulnerable... but now she's met yet another person who can kill her, and I think there's a point a 16-17 year old girl realizes that she doesn't want to die before adulthood.

Her wanting to quit -is- character development, not bad writing.
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Dr.Strangefate said:
you are nit-picking the content of what she said while ignoring the meaning.

"This place sucks. I came here to learn to control my powers--not use them to fight crazy dudes every week. I'm not involuntarily falling through floors like I was. I don't know if I need this place anymore. I certainly don't like it."

She DID join the school to learn to control her powers, the adventure seemed exciting and fun at first, but she was here primarily so she wouldn't accidentally fall through the floor on any given occasion. Once she started to figure out her powers, i'm sure she loved the celebrity of it, but at the same time... Right after she joined the team she was with Wolverine when he left Cyclops to die... her first "mission" was with a known and feared killer who, as she soon found out, actually tried to kill one of her partners. then she became an outlaw, and was hunted down by both Magneto and the Ultimates. Then, one of her teammates died. And unlike in 616, she has no reason to suspect beast will come back to life...Then a Serial Killing scientist broke into the school trying to kill them... They were hunted as prey on a subsaharan african island by a TV mogol...Some crazy twin businessmen tried to abduct one of her teammates...Then Magneto, with his homicidal grudge against the X-Men, almost escaped again (she doesnt know its not the real magneto in captivity)... ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS would be reason enough for a young girl (younger than the rest of her teammates, you have to remember) to decide that DESPITE THE FACT that she wanted some fun superhero adventures at first, that this was far too much for her.

Most of all she's trying to convince herself to leave, and she's rationalizing ths situation, like LOTS of teenagers do. She's loved aspects of the school, but she can't take it anymore

Like, imagine a teenager dropping an ice cream, and then saying to herself, "**** it. I don't even like ice cream all that much anyways."

You are paying too much attention to the wording and not enough to the meaning.

I think this is one of the most interesting things they could have done with Kitty, whom I think many writers didnt know what to do with.

EDIT: Just checked... She was 14 when she joined the team. Somehow I think that needs to be taken into account.
Click to expand...

Both of these statements are so on the money that there's no need for any kinda witty response.

It's all true.


Ultimate Quicksilver said:
I understand, but she is just a kid, the trauma of almost being killed could have made her realise its not just a game. He wrote her post-surgery, she is scared, maybe she will change her mind. The way she's talking, maybe she just want to make a point to Storm...you know, twist the truth a little so someone don't go all "Hey, you wanted to do this you *****!"
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Exactly.


Zombipanda said:
Sometimes you make me wish I was gay, Strangefate.
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Oh there are so many jokes here that I don't know where to begin. :lol:
 
Ice said:
All I'm saying is that she acted like she never wanted to be in these situations when she did.
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And what I am saying is that the perspective of the girl who wanted to go on the adventures before she knew the troubles they would cause is different from the girl who has been through these adventures at risk of life and limb.

To be more clear, The only time she ever indicated that she was gung-ho about these adventures is when she was first introduced and snuck on the plane with scott and logan. Ever since that plausably traumatic event where one of her teammates was left for dead by another teammate, she hasn't vocalized her content or discontent with the sort of "adventure" she was witnessing week by week.
 
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This is the stupidest argument ever.

Ice, just drop it. Its completely inconsequential either way, and its also entirely possible Kitty was shaken and forgetful, or rationalizing, or any of the other possibilities already mentioned.
 
I'm with Ice.

I still say the wording was flawed. If Kirkman wanted to come off as Kitty rethinking her original stance their should've been some indication or referencing to how she used to want to be a hero. "I thought I wanted this..." or something. This scene was just a straight turnaround on the character.

She might not have said anything recently but it doesn't help she's running around with Spider-Man kicking tail and saying "Beating up badguys is a great time" (Date Night).

You're now getting on Ice's case because the good Doctor who is usually correct and backed up by intelligent responses that I'm gonna say half of you don't actually read to begin with says differently.

Welp, let's just say that it's not an open and shut debate and there's very much two sides to how this can be seen.
 
you wound me, MwoF.

But for serious, I don't see why this is a big deal. It makes sense for her character to feel this way, even if it was poorly worded. Its a far more interesting card for kirkman to play than to just push her aside like she has been recently.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I'm certainly not cutting you down DSF. I'm just saying as good as your argument is, I'm unmoved by it and don't think others should be as easily. I'm pretty shaken up by board members being followers thanks to Bendis Boards and BKV's recent rant. I just don't trust anyone anymore.
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yeah, it sucks that people have opinions.
 
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