Ultimate X-Men #64 (Discussion/spoilers).

[Hawkeye101]

I don't need a reason for them to be in the Triskelion. I'm just pointing out that the none of the "Supers" actually live inside the Triskelion AFAIK and therefore you don't need a convoluted plot to drag them out of the way since they are normally out of the way when there is no crisis to handle.

Instead of inventing a weird machine to scramble Polaris powers, Forge could have simply cracked the frequency used to page the "supers" in case of emergency. Then you patiently wait for them to go do what superheros do when they are not saving the world, infiltrate the Triskelion and jam any call for helps to buy you enough time.

It's even less "super science" than the magnetic gizmo he invented and a lot more efficient. Confusions amongst a dozens of supers near the Triskelion while all the prisoners are about to make an escape is good, but no supers at all while the prisoners run amok is even better.

The more elaborate and complicated the scheme is, the less likely someone is going to take it as a setup.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

The more elaborate and complicated the scheme is, the less likely someone is going to take it as a setup.

Actually, the more elaborate, the more likely you are to screw up since there are so many more variable that can go wrong. For example, if Doug Ramsey had been quicker to find the video footage, Havok wouldn't have charged in blindly and most likely someone would have figured Magneto was attempting to escape.

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

Beside, if SHIELD doesn't hear about a ploy to get Magneto out until after he is already freed, it doesn't really matter whether they believe it's a setup or not.


"Sir, all the metal parts of the building are being ripped off! I think Magneto is escaping!"
"No, it's too simple. It gotta be a setup."

---

As I said, I don't mind to much. This way is more entertaining.

 

[Ultimate Galactus]

would someone please give a summary with so many details it would spoil the entire story?

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

Hi!

New!

I just gotta say, as a Scarlet Witch Fan, I LOVED this issue. However, I don't think that Colossus holding her hands down behind her nack would have stopped her.

 

[DIrishB]

Hi!

New!

I just gotta say, as a Scarlet Witch Fan, I LOVED this issue. However, I don't think that Colossus holding her hands down behind her nack would have stopped her.

Welcome USW! Gotta agree, if she can change reality at her whim, someone pinning her arms behind her probably isn't an effective deterrant.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Ah Ah! I just posted what I believe to be the restrictions to Wanda's power in the Ultimate Scarlet Witch thread.

But in short, we've never seen her to affect anything that she didn't hit with her beam of mystical energy and we've never seen her hit anything that she didn't point at.

So as far as we know, Colossus was really hindering her by holding her arms.

 

[Bass]

Welcome EVforvendettaIL and Ultimate Scarlet Witch.

Anyhow, back to the discussion with a new thing to say: I just thought of something. Forge can build anything, right? Why doesn't he just build a teleporter to "beam" Magneto out of prison?

 

[DIrishB]

Welcome EVforvendettaIL and Ultimate Scarlet Witch.

Anyhow, back to the discussion with a new thing to say: I just thought of something. Forge can build anything, right? Why doesn't he just build a teleporter to "beam" Magneto out of prison?

Because that would've been wholly anti-climactic and the most logical way of doing so.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Which is way I find this arc really not that good. It seems to me like he wanted a box office ending, so he's putting one together

 

[DIrishB]

Which is way I find this arc really not that good. It seems to me like he wanted a box office ending, so he's putting one together

I get that impression also, but its still a substantially better story than most of the comics on the market today, even if it is a bit forced in its plotting.

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

I get that impression also, but its still a substantially better story than most of the comics on the market today, even if it is a bit forced in its plotting.

To be fair, characters like Forge and even Scarlet Witch herself need some kind of restriction. I don't read much of anything from the Old universe, but I do know that some of these characters were made and when presented to editors and such, thw writer was all like: "He can build anything, or she can manipulate anything," just to grab attention. So it is safe to give these characters boundaries, just so you don't have the uber-geekyness of the late sixties and early seventies writers in more conventional stories.

But I still think that Colossus pinning Scarlet Witch's hands behind her back would stop her from using her powers.

 

[DIrishB]

To be fair, characters like Forge and even Scarlet Witch herself need some kind of restriction. I don't read much of anything from the Old universe, but I do know that some of these characters were made and when presented to editors and such, thw writer was all like: "He can build anything, or she can manipulate anything," just to grab attention. So it is safe to give these characters boundaries, just so you don't have the uber-geekyness of the late sixties and early seventies writers in more conventional stories.

Good point.

But I still think that Colossus pinning Scarlet Witch's hands behind her back would stop her from using her powers.

I still agree, I don't think Scarlet Witch necessarily had to "point" or aim at what she's attacking, at least in a physical sense. Mentally, definitly. But then again, that doesn't explain why just pinning her arms behind her to incapacitate her is a viable reason for her not messing with the rest of the team. Just one of those things I guess.

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

Good point.



I still agree, I don't think Scarlet Witch necessarily had to "point" or aim at what she's attacking, at least in a physical sense. Mentally, definitly. But then again, that doesn't explain why just pinning her arms behind her to incapacitate her is a viable reason for her not messing with the rest of the team. Just one of those things I guess.

I mean in all 'reality' could she not turn him back into 'human' form? And then kick his sorry butt with those uber cool moves she used on Longshot?

(and do you seriously agree, or are you flirting with me? :lol: )

 

[Ice]

I still agree, I don't think Scarlet Witch necessarily had to "point" or aim at what she's attacking, at least in a physical sense. Mentally, definitly. But then again, that doesn't explain why just pinning her arms behind her to incapacitate her is a viable reason for her not messing with the rest of the team. Just one of those things I guess.

Now mind you, this is just a guess, but maybe with the pain of her arms being held like that threw off any concentration she had.


Like I said, just a guess I'm throwing out there.

 

[DIrishB]

I mean in all 'reality' could she not turn him back into 'human' form? And then kick his sorry butt with those uber cool moves she used on Longshot?

Very true.

(and do you seriously agree, or are you flirting with me? :lol: )

Both. I'm a multi-tasker. For instance, I can both brush my teeth and look at myself in the mirror at the SAME TIME!!! Seriously, its insane I know.

Now mind you, this is just a guess, but maybe with the pain of her arms being held like that threw off any concentration she had.


Like I said, just a guess I'm throwing out there.

Hey, better than anything I could come up with...as usual.

 

[E]

Aaaaand....we're back on topic.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Now mind you, this is just a guess, but maybe with the pain of her arms being held like that threw off any concentration she had.


Like I said, just a guess I'm throwing out there.

Yeah, I was adressing that issue in between the inane banter that got erased (and I do plead guilty for much of it. ).

So I'll repeat : Having reread some issues, I can't remember having ever seen Wanda affect anything without first pointing her hand in the direction of the target and then fire a red Hex-beam-like thing. And the I've seen her miss a lot.

In Tomorrow people, we see her trying to tag Wolverine fleeing with the president's daughter in a car and she can't manage to hit him.

So, yeah, holding her arms would likely hinder her a lot. Wanda is essentially a lot like cyclop, but with worse aim and much cooler, varied and powerful effects when she does hit a target.

What she could have done, and was likely about to try as we can see from the energy gathering in her hands, was try to hit either Colossus or Havok by firing "from the hip".

 

[E]

So I'll repeat : Having reread some issues, I can't remember having ever seen Wanda affect anything without first pointing her hand in the direction of the target

Good observation.

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

Good observation.

Really? Flip to 'The Tomarrow People' when she's strying to fry Wolverine and Jenna (Barbra?) in the car she's not pointing at them.

Niether is she when she removes the implants in their heads when they're escaping Weapon X all she says is 'Abra Kadbra'.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Really? Flip to 'The Tomarrow People' when she's strying to fry Wolverine and Jenna (Barbra?) in the car she's not pointing at them.

Niether is she when she removes the implants in their heads when they're escaping Weapon X all she says is 'Abra Kadbra'.

In Tomorrow people, we see her gathering energy for more Hexes and presumably about to point as she always does to release more. She is in fact in my opinion in a comic "pitcher" pose, as the drawing imply she is about to throw something toward a target, or at least forcefully turn toward it. Look at the way she holds her body ; Not the posture of choice for someone who doesn't need to use her body to target her attacks as it's rather uncortable. But is a posture that can be used by the artist to convey motion.

But hey, if she doesn't need to point, if she only needs to "think" to make an hex appear anywhere she wants... Then she must be awfully slow witted to keep missing Wolverine! What theory do you prefer?

We don't see her gathering energies and shooting in the same panel in this sequence. In any panel where the effect is immediate (The casting of the hex and the target being hit by it occurs in the same panel) she is always pointing. Like in UXM 62 and 64.

In Weapon X she obviously already did her trick when she reveals the implant. She did it off panel, most likely before the power went down.

EDIT : The fact that she needs to target (and is not that good a shot, btw), explain perfectly why she did squat against Thor. I'm certain that if she had tagged him with an Hex she could have cut the fight short... But she likely would have needed to get closer for that and if even Quicksilver had trouble approaching, what were her chance of getting close enough for an Hex without getting blasted by a lightning bolt? Plus, with all the team mates in the way, risk of friendly fire would have been very high.