Ultimate X (Loeb/Adams)

So, basically Ultimate X is Ultimate X-Men except even more ****ty?
 
Not understanding the hate for this book...its like the ONLY decent Ultimate work Loeb has done, but it is decent, if nothing more. It certainly doesn't deserve the harsh criticisms being thrown at it by some of you.

For instance:

nigma said:
im interested to see where this goes, it looks promising. some of the artwork looks cool in its own little way
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I take it back, it sucked.......what happened to the ultimate universe?
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Um...what? You liked it, then all of a sudden didn't? Why, because others on the board didn't like it?

I'm at a loss as to how you changed your mind so drastically.

And what happened to the Ultimate universe? Well, Ultimatum, which while in and of itself was a terrible mini, it did allow for the Ultimate verse to become its own animal. Its an entirely different universe now, instead of the 616's slightly cooler little brother. We now have a Marvel universe without Wolverine, Magneto, Cyclops, etc, and without just resorting to re-telling a pale comparison of existing 616 stories to interest readers.

The Ultimate universe is now finally accomplishing what it should've been doing from the start: telling DIFFERENT stories in a universe which is drastically (more or less) different than the 616 universe. Granted, so far those stories over all haven't been that great (Ultimate Avengers and Ultimate Enemy have been disappointing, but USM and Ultimate X I enjoy), but there's room to work with.


Point is, this book (so far) is actually ok. Its readable, its relatable (to a point), and the characters are taking center stage (instead of explosions and terrible dialogue being the focus like in Ultimates 3). Granted, some of the dialogue is wince-inducing, but its minimal. The first issue was good, in my opinion, and the second was pretty decent too. I really don't understand the hate, other than its written by Loeb. The name of the writer shouldn't be all that decides whether you like the book or not...


Now, I can't believe I'm defending Loeb, because most of the stuff I've read by him was atrocious, but I am saying this series isn't one of them (so far at least). Its good, character-driven story, nothing more, nothing less. The artwork by Adams is good stuff as well. And, I can honestly say I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. I don't expect much (c'mon, its Loeb!), but I'm staying on board for the ride, at least for the time being.
 
It's not BAD, it's just really really mediocre, and even when he manages to write some good stuff some other part of the book brings it down and makes the good stuff look like he's just trying to sound cool :p
1st issue was ok, 2nd issue was overdramatic and I don't think he portrayed Jean that well. That said, maybe she changed a lot since Ultimatum and Scott's death...
Still, the only lasting impact Ultimatum really had was killing off some of the main heroes from 616 and the mutant hate-parade getting worse.

DIrishB said:
Granted, some of the dialogue is wince-inducing, but its minimal.
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This is what I think just sucks me out of the whole experience and makes the comic just seem dumb. Loeb has an amazing ability to write the most unnatural lines of dialogue a human being can think of sometimes :(
 
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DIrishB said:
The Ultimate universe is now finally accomplishing what it should've been doing from the start: telling DIFFERENT stories in a universe which is drastically (more or less) different than the 616 universe. Granted, so far those stories over all haven't been that great (Ultimate Avengers and Ultimate Enemy have been disappointing, but USM and Ultimate X I enjoy), but there's room to work with.
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I disagree. I always saw the Ultimate Universe as a way to show these characters in a new light while respecting their core concepts. They should just be using original stories not to retell but as a jumping point to something great. I came to the UU to see the character I like in a modern setting in fact that's the purpose of the universe. If you want to make original stories than just make an original story, you don't have to kill off half a universe, many interesting characters, and drop a ton of story lines to do so. I'd rather be reading Ultimate X-men than have it completely kill for this, we had much more potential from great stories before ultimatum than we do now.
 
DIrishB said:
Not understanding the hate for this book...its like the ONLY decent Ultimate work Loeb has done, but it is decent, if nothing more. It certainly doesn't deserve the harsh criticisms being thrown at it by some of you.


Um...what? You liked it, then all of a sudden didn't? Why, because others on the board didn't like it?
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the 1st quote was based on the preview which mostly show cased Jean having a meltdown, which was cool'ish

the 2nd quote was based on after reading the whole issue, which just rubbed me the wrong way, mostly with Mystic and Sabertooth, they looked like children. when there supposed to be some of the baddest of the bad. along with the narrative from the rent-a-cop, i didn't know what the hell was going on till the end including how much actual time had passed since Ultimatum.
 
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While Sabertooth certainly acted weird, as if he was mentally reconditionned or something, I thought Mystic was just the same, if a little purdy because of Adams' art. She didn't come to kill or destroy, but to make an offer. She's the continuation of what we've last seen of her in the Requiem issue of Ultimate X-Men.
 
I actually agree that the writing in this is surprisingly solid. I'm even prepared to say it's good, and MAN have I ever not forgiven Loeb for Ultimatum and Ultimates 3 yet. However, it does have some phenomenally stupid ideas encased within (really? he can cover his claws in adamantium at will? REALLY, Loeb?), he's still trying to pass off old characters with new names and looks as new characters, and Sabertooth looking really effing stupid....so it's a pretty mediocre comic, all told.
 
vmenge said:
It's not BAD, it's just really really mediocre, and even when he manages to write some good stuff some other part of the book brings it down and makes the good stuff look like he's just trying to sound cool :p
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See, this I completely agree with. But I contend its better than mediocre. There's some real emotion to the first issue, obviously stuff Loeb is drawing from what he went through with his son's illness, but nontheless the emotional relationship between a father and son, and a myriad of dynamics based on it, are all presented. Granted, the control of adamantium flowing over his claws was stupid as hell, but I can live with it. The dialogue for the most part was pretty bad, but the narration overall was good, so its an even balance in my mind.

1st issue was ok, 2nd issue was overdramatic and I don't think he portrayed Jean that well. That said, maybe she changed a lot since Ultimatum and Scott's death...
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I think Jean was handled well, considering all she'd been put through in the past few months. After the Phoenix storyline in UXM, and the ensuing Apocaylypse stuff, and Ultimatum, and watching her boyfriend get his brains blown out, etc...how would you expect her to act? Granted, the dyed hair and heavy eye make-up is about 15 years late to be considered trendy, but thats passable.

Still, the only lasting impact Ultimatum really had was killing off some of the main heroes from 616 and the mutant hate-parade getting worse.
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Which in and of themselves are only shallow changes, but in the long run they CAN lead to drastic differences between 616 and the Ultimate verse if handled right.

This is what I think just sucks me out of the whole experience and makes the comic just seem dumb. Loeb has an amazing ability to write the most unnatural lines of dialogue a human being can think of sometimes :(
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You hit the nail on the head there.


Random said:
I disagree. I always saw the Ultimate Universe as a way to show these characters in a new light while respecting their core concepts. They should just be using original stories not to retell but as a jumping point to something great. I came to the UU to see the character I like in a modern setting in fact that's the purpose of the universe. If you want to make original stories than just make an original story, you don't have to kill off half a universe, many interesting characters, and drop a ton of story lines to do so. I'd rather be reading Ultimate X-men than have it completely kill for this, we had much more potential from great stories before ultimatum than we do now.
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Fair enough, but I like where the universe is headed as a concept, in execution I doubt much will be accomplished, but I can hope.

nigma said:
the 1st quote was based on the preview which mostly show cased Jean having a meltdown, which was cool'ish

the 2nd quote was based on after reading the whole issue, which just rubbed me the wrong way, mostly with Mystic and Sabertooth, they looked like children. when there supposed to be some of the baddest of the bad. along with the narrative from the rent-a-cop, i didn't know what the hell was going on till the end including how much actual time had passed since Ultimatum.
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I thought Sabretooth looked pretty badass, can't remember Mystique, but looking like children never came to mind when I read the issue and saw the artwork. To each his own, I guess.

X_Toad said:
While Sabertooth certainly acted weird, as if he was mentally reconditionned or something, I thought Mystic was just the same, if a little purdy because of Adams' art. She didn't come to kill or destroy, but to make an offer. She's the continuation of what we've last seen of her in the Requiem issue of Ultimate X-Men.
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Thats how I saw it.

Zeek said:
I actually agree that the writing in this is surprisingly solid. I'm even prepared to say it's good, and MAN have I ever not forgiven Loeb for Ultimatum and Ultimates 3 yet. However, it does have some phenomenally stupid ideas encased within (really? he can cover his claws in adamantium at will? REALLY, Loeb?), he's still trying to pass off old characters with new names and looks as new characters, and Sabertooth looking really effing stupid....so it's a pretty mediocre comic, all told.
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Again, I thought Sabretooth looked cool, but his look falls more on Adams shoulders, not Loebs. As for the rest, I completely agree. There are some really dumb ideas (mainly the controlling adamantium) and laughable dialogue, but as said, overall the writing is solid.

Ultimate Houde said:
I love how you are all going, "It's not as bad as his previous work."
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We are, but we're also giving other reasons as to why we're liking it, which you've conveniently not mentioned. Said reasons are few and far between, but regardless, there is a MAJOR improvement in Loeb's approach to his writing between this series and say, Ultimatum or Ultimates 3.

Its actually worth checking out, thats all I'm saying. And more power to Loeb for redeeming himself some in the Ultimate 'verse, even if it is only minimal. I'm all about the redemption!
 
DIrishB said:
Fair enough, but I like where the universe is headed as a concept, in execution I doubt much will be accomplished, but I can hope.
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Hm.

Beyond "being different from the mainstream universe", where do you think it's headed as a concept?
 
Zombipanda said:
Hm.

Beyond "being different from the mainstream universe", where do you think it's headed as a concept?
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Nothing more or less than that. It started out as the more "realistic", "edgier" universe, and has definitely lost those elements. I'd like to see those factors become a part of future Ultimate stories again, namely no more magic or mystic stuff, less or NO cosmic stuff, etc. Again, its a shallow request, I know, but I think this approach would serve to help make the verse seem "realistic" again (as far as a comic involving such fantastic elements can be deemed as realistic).

And, I personally like the fact that the Ultimate universe is now probably the ONLY alternate universe in Marvel's history where Wolverine is dead. Again, its a shallow thing, but one which could have noticeable ramifications, especially given how large a part Wolverine is of the 616 verse--he's a recurring member of how many teams, and how many solo books/minis does he get a month?

I'm just throwing optimism where its usually never seen: a comic forum. I'm not expecting much, just hoping for it.
 
Anyone read #3?
I thought it was pretty good :)
I don't like how Loeb writes Jean, but overall I (surprisingly) really liked this issue. Way better than New Ultimates.
 
Wow, for some reason I really thought it was a mini. And I usually have all my comic book facts straight. Hm.

I read the first two issues and really liked them. I borrowed them from a friend at college who is now back home, so I'm waiting for the first trade to read the rest. I'll probably be waiting for a long time.

LLLLOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEBBBBBBB!
 
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