Ultimate Spider-Man # 75 Thoughts (spoilers)
- Thread starter The Captain
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Shihad
Well-Known Member
Confused as anything!!!!1
i haven't got this issue (not til tomorrow) but shaw was in the first arc, he nearly ran Peter over???????? I don't understand whats going on, but thats what i remeber, even Norman was talking to him, saying i want to study him, not kill him!!!!!
i haven't got this issue (not til tomorrow) but shaw was in the first arc, he nearly ran Peter over???????? I don't understand whats going on, but thats what i remeber, even Norman was talking to him, saying i want to study him, not kill him!!!!!
Shihad
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks, i didn't read that post of yours, i thought there could have been some continuy errors, but i'm guessing the shaw thing hasn't been cleared up yet, so there could be still errors still, but hope not!!!!
The Captain
Banned
UltimateE said:OK, first of all, pretty good issue, and I like the couple or revelations.
Yes, it looks like Harry is indeed Hobgoblin, and it looks like yes, Shaw is a figment of Hary's imagination. And yes, it looks like this was the loose end - Hobgoblin has been with us all along. I'm very interested to see if he has been behind or involved in any other events since the explosion that we aren't expecting. Very cool stuff!
And Irish - awesome job and props to you for calling it. :mrgreen:
I don't think he's setting himself on fire as much as he is igniting - there is a difference but I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
The Captain said:could it be that shaw some how gave harry some oz off panel??
Shaw is not real. He has no powers. He is a figment of Harry's imagination, just like Apocolypse is a figment of Sinister's.
How the heck is the guy not real when he was beating the kid up and showing him where the underground mini oz place was??
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
The Captain said:
I'd tell you but the first rule of Fight Club is DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB! :wink:
The Captain
Banned
TheManWithoutFear said:
LOL......you know, i find that funny sense someone on another board said shaw was some tyler guy from that movie...
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
The Captain said:
Some Tyler GUY!!!? Tyler Durden says, USE SOAP.
YEah, but that's why he was able to beat up on the kid, drive the car, etc... same principles.
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Captain, look at that scene more closely... In one of the panels Harry is falling back by himself right after Shaw had been grabbing at his shirt... Spider-Man gives him an odd look and says, "I don't know what to do". I think he's an illusion.
Friday
Well-Known Member
Shaw isn't there. He's a manifistation of the Celler Door trigger that Warren programed into Harry for his father. I wouldn't be supprised to find out that the bunker, while existing, was never visited.
Shaw keeps harping "You were there" to Harry. My money is that he was treated with Oz then too, but his younger metabolism kept it in check, similarly to how Peter survived the spider bite.
I'm still disapointed that Harry is the Hobblegoblin. It just seems so predictable.
Shaw keeps harping "You were there" to Harry. My money is that he was treated with Oz then too, but his younger metabolism kept it in check, similarly to how Peter survived the spider bite.
I'm still disapointed that Harry is the Hobblegoblin. It just seems so predictable.
TheManWithoutFear said:
I could not have said it better. Bravo.
Baxter said:
Understandable. To me, it fits, so I'm not really disappointed. Some things that are predictable are that way for good reason - this is one of them.
Bass
Nexus of the World
I don't think there is no cellar. What I assume is that all the stuff in the flashbacks were actually part of Harry's therapy and this is all just his unconcious or some other nonsense.
I'm just wound up. I said it would start with a flashback and end with Harry turning into Hobby (or being Hobby). While I was wrong about how we got there, I was right - nothing happened.... again.
I'd speculate but it seems the only reason we can't work this out effectively, is that there isn't enough material to work any of it out. I mean, I'm trying to make sense of it and hoping that the next issue will explain things because I'm just spitballing, when, by now, we should get insight.
Remember "Fight Club"? When the 'twist' in that happens - not only does it make perfect sense but we get insight into the truth of the characters. This does not have that insight. It's just confusing.
Though, possibly, I'm wrong and I just don't care enough to think back.
But then, I was thinking "what's the loose end?" and it doesn't seem to be in this issue (Harry being Hobby is not a loose end because we didn't know about it - it would be a loose end if Cellar Door was mentioned in the first issue and we didn't know what it referred to - but it wasn't).
It's probably something to do with Peter's blood killing himself or something (wasn't that the first issue? And wasn't Shaw the guy who got it?).
I dunno. I want to know what happens, but I don't care enough to work it out.
The mystery of Loki this is not.
I'm just wound up. I said it would start with a flashback and end with Harry turning into Hobby (or being Hobby). While I was wrong about how we got there, I was right - nothing happened.... again.
I'd speculate but it seems the only reason we can't work this out effectively, is that there isn't enough material to work any of it out. I mean, I'm trying to make sense of it and hoping that the next issue will explain things because I'm just spitballing, when, by now, we should get insight.
Remember "Fight Club"? When the 'twist' in that happens - not only does it make perfect sense but we get insight into the truth of the characters. This does not have that insight. It's just confusing.
Though, possibly, I'm wrong and I just don't care enough to think back.
But then, I was thinking "what's the loose end?" and it doesn't seem to be in this issue (Harry being Hobby is not a loose end because we didn't know about it - it would be a loose end if Cellar Door was mentioned in the first issue and we didn't know what it referred to - but it wasn't).
It's probably something to do with Peter's blood killing himself or something (wasn't that the first issue? And wasn't Shaw the guy who got it?).
I dunno. I want to know what happens, but I don't care enough to work it out.
The mystery of Loki this is not.
Bass
Nexus of the World
UltimateE said:
Y'know, while it was predictable, I wouldn't mind predictability if y'know, Harry actually turned into the Hobgoblin in the first 4 issues, but he didn't. Four issues and no Hobgoblin. Yet there's supposed to be a sense of shock, mystery, and horror around this turning point.
The Captain
Banned
angry fanboy
we knew harry was in the lab, but didnt know that he could have gained powers from the explosion.....we saw him in the lab, but we didnt know he stayed in there....
so knowing this and no one ever asking about it on paper is a loose end....at this point i dont even care anymore, im going to need a shrink if im going to continue to read this series....im highly ticked off that ive spent jan to april reading about something that could have been told to me in 2 months.....11 pages of flashbacks, like 2 of action.....pete might as well keep the mask off when he goes in public...
the cringe in the back of my neck has gotten larger after reading this issue, i am so close to just not reading comics again man i dont know what to say...
this guy is teasing me with half ***ed stories one month and then a shot of life the next.....its like books are just being made to get in the guiness book or world records....i mean, could they just not bath for 6 years to get the same press??
- thoughts of a ex fanboy turned fanboy about to be ex fanboy again... :x
we knew harry was in the lab, but didnt know that he could have gained powers from the explosion.....we saw him in the lab, but we didnt know he stayed in there....
so knowing this and no one ever asking about it on paper is a loose end....at this point i dont even care anymore, im going to need a shrink if im going to continue to read this series....im highly ticked off that ive spent jan to april reading about something that could have been told to me in 2 months.....11 pages of flashbacks, like 2 of action.....pete might as well keep the mask off when he goes in public...
the cringe in the back of my neck has gotten larger after reading this issue, i am so close to just not reading comics again man i dont know what to say...
this guy is teasing me with half ***ed stories one month and then a shot of life the next.....its like books are just being made to get in the guiness book or world records....i mean, could they just not bath for 6 years to get the same press??
- thoughts of a ex fanboy turned fanboy about to be ex fanboy again... :x
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
The Captain said:
anic: Captain you're the same guy who stuck by this title last time when everyone was bashing it.... what the hell is wrong with you man, pull youself together.The Captain
Banned
F***in' Crystal Ball(predictable)
agreed 200% and yet thats exactly why im pissed....God forbid, something could happen to me in between reading these issues each month and im expecting a quality story to pay off.. back in my prime of comics, issues 25, 50, 75 and 100 usually meant something....instead i get 11 pages of s*** that i could have figured out on my own....
You wait month after month thinking the guy is gonna make the story like a soap opera, instead you get a flat beer....high expectations, but with a watered down taste....and with prices jumping to 2.50, if this is the kind of approach doesnt change, im gone. Dont get me wrong, the stories arent so bad as it is the pacing...this guy {bendis} is milking a story and stretching it out to be longer than it should. How do you go from stan lee telling an origin in 11 pages, to a guy using 7 arcs to tell just about the same thing....
thats not a problem when its done right(as it was) but once you keep rehashing the same stuff (retelling stuff from the last issue) i feel like you are just simply taking my money....
you would think the book that got him a break into big time marvel would be the cornerstone of his work and he goes all out on other books but one the first born its horrible (damn powers doesnt even fall off as much as this does)
* he killed gwen in a predictable manner
* superstars arcs were all stretched out (except for maybe the doc strange)
* dude has his mask off infront of almost everyone (next 50 cent will know)
* the covers arent half as inspiring as the rest of the ultimate covers
(save for the first 50 issues)
* a 75 issue series in a span of 9 months..and yet so much has happened
but at the same time...nothing has really changed.
If i go on this will be moved to the Bendis bashing thread....
Sincerely,
- Robert Kirkman
Bass said:
agreed 200% and yet thats exactly why im pissed....God forbid, something could happen to me in between reading these issues each month and im expecting a quality story to pay off.. back in my prime of comics, issues 25, 50, 75 and 100 usually meant something....instead i get 11 pages of s*** that i could have figured out on my own....
You wait month after month thinking the guy is gonna make the story like a soap opera, instead you get a flat beer....high expectations, but with a watered down taste....and with prices jumping to 2.50, if this is the kind of approach doesnt change, im gone. Dont get me wrong, the stories arent so bad as it is the pacing...this guy {bendis} is milking a story and stretching it out to be longer than it should. How do you go from stan lee telling an origin in 11 pages, to a guy using 7 arcs to tell just about the same thing....
thats not a problem when its done right(as it was) but once you keep rehashing the same stuff (retelling stuff from the last issue) i feel like you are just simply taking my money....
you would think the book that got him a break into big time marvel would be the cornerstone of his work and he goes all out on other books but one the first born its horrible (damn powers doesnt even fall off as much as this does)
* he killed gwen in a predictable manner
* superstars arcs were all stretched out (except for maybe the doc strange)
* dude has his mask off infront of almost everyone (next 50 cent will know)
* the covers arent half as inspiring as the rest of the ultimate covers
(save for the first 50 issues)
* a 75 issue series in a span of 9 months..and yet so much has happened
but at the same time...nothing has really changed.
If i go on this will be moved to the Bendis bashing thread....
Sincerely,
- Robert Kirkman
Something that struck me about this issue was the fact that Shaw said he was invisible to S.H.I.E.L.D., and that he couldn't go and to Peter himself. What if Shaw can actually, turn invisible. He must know about Peter's Spider sense, so he can't go near him. And the reason Nick Fury dosn't know that he exist is because he can't see him. Maybe shaw is Ultimate Mysterio?
Blacksword
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2004
- Messages
- 191
Interesting issue (was enjoying it until the last couple pages), but unless Bendis does some explaining the plot hole that was opened up is gonna be a real problem.
As others have said, Harry being in the explosion should not equal Harry having goblin powers. Norman developed his powers not because of the explosion but because he was mainlining Oz during said explosion and was at its heart. And he went back to normal some time after, when the initial Oz high wore off. He was nutty as a fruit cake after, but Norman's goblin abilities only became permananent after repeated injections of Oz, and the massive ammount he took in Legacy... unless we are to presume he had the ability all along and only needed more Oz to allow his mind to make the transformation. But that's uneccesarily complicated and needlessly confusing. Confusing plots do not equal good suspense by default.
But a few further questions do come to mind. If Shaw is Harry's Tyler Dyrden, then is the underground goblin bunker even real, or is it a psychological equivalent of the cellar of nasty truths hidden behind the cellar door safe word? Given all the stuff in there I'd be tempted to say it's not real. Goblin images, Oz, Doc Ock's arms, all the stuff Harry's been insulated from.
The other option is that the Shaw personality (someone who represents all that's bad about Norman - the guy who did his dirty work) has been causing Harry to inject himself with Oz from the bunker, and that Harry has not had powers from the start... which is more logical as Norman yelling "cellar door" in Legacy didn't cause Harry to turn into a second Goblin then.
I will admit that Harry being alone out of everyone there unaffected by the explosion on reflection at the present time is a bit odd. However, we only were given insight into the Oz related nature of Ock's fusion with his arms in Ultimate Six. We assumed he was the same as in 616 and that the explosion just fused the electronics to his nervous system. So it wasn't evident from the first Arc that Harry would be affected in any special way by the explosion. Only after Ultimate Six could that conclusion be drawn, and even then it's tenuous as Octavius was right next to Osborn while Harry was almost out of the room when the explosion took place. I personally think Bendis is really stretching this one and the plot's starting to tear. Which is a shame since Bendis is a better writer than this.
As others have said, Harry being in the explosion should not equal Harry having goblin powers. Norman developed his powers not because of the explosion but because he was mainlining Oz during said explosion and was at its heart. And he went back to normal some time after, when the initial Oz high wore off. He was nutty as a fruit cake after, but Norman's goblin abilities only became permananent after repeated injections of Oz, and the massive ammount he took in Legacy... unless we are to presume he had the ability all along and only needed more Oz to allow his mind to make the transformation. But that's uneccesarily complicated and needlessly confusing. Confusing plots do not equal good suspense by default.
But a few further questions do come to mind. If Shaw is Harry's Tyler Dyrden, then is the underground goblin bunker even real, or is it a psychological equivalent of the cellar of nasty truths hidden behind the cellar door safe word? Given all the stuff in there I'd be tempted to say it's not real. Goblin images, Oz, Doc Ock's arms, all the stuff Harry's been insulated from.
The other option is that the Shaw personality (someone who represents all that's bad about Norman - the guy who did his dirty work) has been causing Harry to inject himself with Oz from the bunker, and that Harry has not had powers from the start... which is more logical as Norman yelling "cellar door" in Legacy didn't cause Harry to turn into a second Goblin then.
I will admit that Harry being alone out of everyone there unaffected by the explosion on reflection at the present time is a bit odd. However, we only were given insight into the Oz related nature of Ock's fusion with his arms in Ultimate Six. We assumed he was the same as in 616 and that the explosion just fused the electronics to his nervous system. So it wasn't evident from the first Arc that Harry would be affected in any special way by the explosion. Only after Ultimate Six could that conclusion be drawn, and even then it's tenuous as Octavius was right next to Osborn while Harry was almost out of the room when the explosion took place. I personally think Bendis is really stretching this one and the plot's starting to tear. Which is a shame since Bendis is a better writer than this.
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