Ultimate missed opportunities

[The Overlord]

I mean they took a crap 616 character like the Leader and made him cool.

What's wrong with that though? Now 616 Leader has his moments (nuking a small American town is impressive), but he still has some conceptual problems.

Anyway there is no problem with upgrading a B-listers to an A-lister in the UU, because green goblin and Kingpin did not start off as A-listers in the 616 universe. Sometimes a B-lister is an A-lister in the waiting.

I would say The Colonel was a complete waste, while Gwen Stacy had a good death. It was shocking and important, but her legacy lives on in the book.

Gwen wasn't even killed by a character, she was killed by a plot device, there's no drama or tension in that. carnage is like a wild animal, it Gwen because it didn't know any better, Gobby killed Gwen because he was evil person, what sounds more dramatic? There isn't even any drama regarding the question of whether Spidey should kill carnage or not.

The colonel was a plot device, but he was a good one, so I don't have a problem with him dying, actually him staying alive would have been less dramatic.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

The trouble is they killed Leader and he could never be an A-lister in the UU now.

 

[The Overlord]

The trouble is they killed Leader and he could never be an A-lister in the UU now.

True enough, they do kill villains too quickly sometimes, like Leader and abomination (that's most of hulk's rogues gallery right there.)

If they kill villains too quickly, they can run out of them.

 

[Random]

True enough, they do kill villains too quickly sometimes, like Leader and abomination (that's most of hulk's rogues gallery right there.)

If they kill villains too quickly, they can run out of them.

The thing is Hulk doesn't have an ongoing, so it doesn't necessarily matter if they use up his rogues since he mainly fought the heroes

 

[The Overlord]

The thing is Hulk doesn't have an ongoing, so it doesn't necessarily matter if they use up his rogues since he mainly fought the heroes

True again, but Abomination is still a good villain in his own right. There's no need to waste him like that, his death had no real build up. If you are going to kill a character off, give the death some build up first.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Plus, just because he doesn't have a series now doesn't mean he never will, and there's no reason The Leadar can't fight the FF or X-Men either.

 

[Random]

True again, but Abomination is still a good villain in his own right. There's no need to waste him like that, his death had no real build up. If you are going to kill a character off, give the death some build up first.

Again, Blonsky hasn't been thrown away, and he's the actual character, not random chinese person with the same power, you still have potential there.

Plus, just because he doesn't have a series now doesn't mean he never will, and there's no reason The Leadar can't fight the FF or X-Men either.

Yeah but FF and X-men still have a rich rogue gallery to draw upon. Other than personal liking there's no solid reason for an author to have Leader showing up. No Hulk ongoing, the best he could do is get a mini and maybe show up later. Or be a villain in an Ultimates story. Just no solid basis to keep him reoccurring; just "if", "maybe", "wouldn't it be cool".

I don't think he should have died, but he's not terribly great potential reoccurring character maybe three major times at most before getting boring.

 

[The Overlord]

Again, Blonsky hasn't been thrown away, and he's the actual character, not random chinese person with the same power, you still have potential there.

I do think if you have too many versions of one character it makes the character less special sometimes, like Clayface, there are like 6 Clayfaces, so the character is pretty diluted. if they are going to use Blonsky and the Abomination, they have to give him a kick butt story right away, so people will know this version is way tougher than the last one, which was disappointing.

 

[E]

What's wrong with that though?

Nothing at all - that's my point. I just said that it sucks that he's dead since it was the first time the Leader has been interesting in any form.

 

[The Overlord]

Nothing at all - that's my point. I just said that it sucks that he's dead since it was the first time the Leader has been interesting in any form.

Ah I see, just wanted to be sure what you were getting at. Yes it is a shame, now sure Hulk doesn't have ongoing so its harder to fit him in, but I'm sure he could could have been fit into an another Ultimates storyline, it would have been better than what Loeb is doing now.

Anyway I think one of the biggest missed opportunities is the UU had the benefit of hindsight that the 616 universe didn't, the 616 universe had to develop a lot of its concepts from trial and error (they tried to present both Dr. Doom and Stilt-Man as dangerous villains in their first appearance, only one of those stuck). The 616 universe already did a lot of the grunt work for the UU and still they managed to repeat the 616 universe's mistakes.

I do think a lot of characters could have been better in the UU, with the benefit of hindsight. after some characters are because of flaws in their creation (lack of motive,etc). If Timm can improve Clock King, the something could be done with Trapster (who be kinda like the comic version of the jigsaw killer, instead of a mook with a glue gun and no common sense.)

 

[The Overlord]

You what's a missed opportunity, the UU doesn't have villns who are just normal human beings, who are dangerous because they are intelligent and ruthless. There are no villains similar to Lex Luthor, Joker or Red Skull, villlains who rely solely on cunning not powers. Those are some of the best villains around. Villains without powers are treated like jokes, like shocker. But what's more realisitc than a guy who is dangerous and has no powers, there are a lot of people like that in real life. I think the Dark Knight's Joker proves how dangerous a villain with no powers can be.

 

[Random]

You what's a missed opportunity, the UU doesn't have villns who are just normal human beings, who are dangerous because they are intelligent and ruthless. There are no villains similar to Lex Luthor, Joker or Red Skull, villlains who rely solely on cunning not powers. Those are some of the best villains around. Villains without powers are treated like jokes, like shocker. But what's more realisitc than a guy who is dangerous and has no powers, there are a lot of people like that in real life. I think the Dark Knight's Joker proves how dangerous a villain with no powers can be.

Yep, I completely agree, Fisk was really the only one now it seems that Ultimate Origin is taking that away. They kinda went too far sometimes giving people powers

 

[The Overlord]

Yep, I completely agree, Fisk was really the only one now it seems that Ultimate Origin is taking that away. They kinda went too far sometimes giving people powers

Giving Kingpin powers was stupid.

Another problem is almost none of the villains have any pathos. There is no villain like Two-face, who is conflicted or sympathetic.

 

[Random]

Giving Kingpin powers was stupid.

Another problem is almost none of the villains have any pathos. There is no villain like Two-face, who is conflicted or sympathetic.

Oh yeah, they have every villain an irredeemable *******, specially ones done by Bendis

 

[The Overlord]

Oh yeah, they have every villain an irredeemable *******, specially ones done by Bendis

True, Gladiator was a tragic figure in the 616 figure, in the UU he's a joke. I like evil villains, but I also like noble, tragic and sympathetic villains to balance them out. Also frankly at this point the 616 universe has better evil villains then the UU anyway, guys like red Skull and Purple Man blow away most of the evil villains in the UU anyway, mainly because they have less extreme villains to play off. Magneto being the biggest SOB in the UU isn't that impressive, because all the villains are SOB, the Skull being the biggest SOB in the 616 universe is impressive, because he plays off the other more sympathetic villains nicely. Plus Ultimate Magneto doesn't a good back story, like the Skull does, that makes the Skull a deeper character, because they explain why he is an SOB, unlike Ultimate Magneto who is evil for evil sake, with no back story to explain it.

Its not just not, its like they never have subtle villains. every villain is either a thug who knocks over banks and works for other, more intelligent villains or an over the top criminal mastermind, with overly grandiose schemes, I kinda liked the fact that sinister was just a serial killer at first, but now they made him over the top world conquering villain, they hardly have any off beat villains.