Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Any character who dies in his first appearance (Leader, Liberators). . . I hate that.
Ultimate missed opportunities
- Thread starter The Overlord
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Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Character death in my opinion is nothing more than sloppy writing in an effort to create a shock moment.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
No.
I think you're smart enough to figure out the difference between a shock moment death and a well thought out death.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Even if a character does die, there's no reason not to bring them back. A dead characetr is a wasted character.
The Overlord
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To be fair, most of the Liberators were nothing characters in the 616 universe (the only one who was truly wasted was Abomination). So its not like its a huge loss, heck they already have another crimsondynamo running around in the UU, just like they do in the 616 U. Some of characters do work as throwaways. I really like Hurricane's death, that makes like Ultimate Hurrican more interesting than whatever throwaway character Hurricane is in the 616 universe. Plus the Liberators can always be recreated by the people created them, later.
Also I like Gobby's death, that was well handled.
No, but the death should have an impact. Gobby's death was a billion times cooler than Abomination's.
But if you do that too often death becomes a joke. Look at all the Jean Grey jokes.
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Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
They'r eonly wasted character because they died completely undeveloped. Green Goblin had a lot of stories and was well-developed. And he should definitely come back. He's too good a character to waste.
And even if a character doesn't come back, their death should start a legacy, if not with a replacement character, then somehow through the series.
Gwen Stacy is an example of a character's death that meant something and whose presence is still felt in the title.
But, like, The Leader dying is a travesty. Now there's no way for him to develop at all.
The Overlord
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Okay Leader was a waste and so was Abomination, but was Hurricane wasted? I don't think so I liked her death. Sometimes you need a few throwaway characters.
Gwen, yes, her death was lame.
I disagree about Gobby, he is a good character, but he works better as a character arc, his arc is over, his character has been given a proper ending, there is no reason to reverse it. If the death is good, let it stand, that was the problem with brining Gobby back in the 616 universe. Heck instead of brining Norman back, why not introduce ultimate Roderick Kingsley? Or Bendis can focus on other villains instead of just reusing Gobby over and over again.
how times has ultimate Electro been used, yet we know next to nothing about his character? That's a missed opportunity.
Grocer Man
Well-Known Member
What about, say, random passerby who die on the street during a heated battle.
The Overlord
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Those aren't characters, their plot devices, they are killed to make the villain look dangerous or make the hero sad or angry, its not like they are given a personality or traits. You can't compare killing these non entities to killing a villain or a supporting cast member. A villain who kills a hero's loved one will always be more personal nemesis (for the hero and the reader) than some guy wastes a thousands of random civilans that reader will never care about.
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Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
I'm fine with some villains being thrown away if their originally b-listers. But throwing away characters with obviously good potential like Omega Red. Abomination I didn't mind because it wasn't Blonsky so you still have that potential.
There are good Deaths and bad death. The Colonel I thought was a good death, Gwen Stacy was a horrible death. It all depends on how it's done.
There are good Deaths and bad death. The Colonel I thought was a good death, Gwen Stacy was a horrible death. It all depends on how it's done.
Me too, except the problem I'm seeing is that some of these Ultimizations are causing previous b-listers to become decided un-b-listy. Leader is a great example.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Yeah from what I've heard Leader was a great ultimization and I don't think he should have been killed given his potential future. the UU has wasted enough ideas already
The Overlord
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Like who? Besides the leader was a fairly good Ultimatization.
Now what do you mean by acting "un-b-listy"? Do you mean trying to bump up B-list characters to A-list characters or downgrading a B-list character to a C-list character?
But why should a B-list 616 character remain B-list in the UU? Isn't supposed to be different, so making a B-list character better be different?
Besides almost no villain starts out a-list, Gobby and Magneto were b-listers at one point. Bullseye and Kingpin were b-liters till Miller used them. Brubaker was able to use a C-lister to good affect in DD. There are no bad characters, only bad writers.
So really, what is the problem with a B-lister getting an upgrade in the UU? heck it rarely happens. Most of the time b-listers are bumped down to C-listers in the UU. 616 Electro has a way deeper personality than ultimate Electro, ditto with Sandman, Vulture, etc. In terms of characterization of these "B-list" characters, the 616 Universe has the UU beat. There's a missed opportunity
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Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
I would say The Colonel was a complete waste, while Gwen Stacy had a good death. It was shocking and important, but her legacy lives on in the book.
I mean they took a crap 616 character like the Leader and made him cool.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Now I completely disagree with you here. I feel the Colonel's death was perfect for the story. It really helped the story and is really great. Maybe if he had more done with his back story. I really don't think it would have worked if Colonel at the end wave his fist in the air and went "Next time Cap, NEXT TIME!" I think his character really hit home for Cap about being a govt. agent, plus if he stuck around he would have just been raped by Loeb.
Now Gwen was truly a complete waste, it wasn't even shocking, it was more shocking twenty years ago. Now it just seems like Bendis only did it because it happened in 616. Her death was one of the biggest missed opportunity in the UU. She had just learn Peter's secret and we had some REALLY great potential there as a supporting character, she was one of the best characters in the book, and she's thrown away by a clone (Why clones again!?). Now her death could of had a great impacted on Peter, he does the spider-man no more bit (another incredibly predictable turn out) which is immediately reversed the next issue. Peter moops about it for a few issues and that's it. We get an interesting idea of "Parker no more" where Peter gets too distant with his social life but that again GOES NOWHERE. And then we get into the clone saga which is just too retarded for me to talk about again,
So in all Gwen Stacy's death was a failure not on one instance but on three.
Langsta
Well-Known Member
That secret, Illuminati-style group in Ultimates 2, the one that created the Liberators - what ever happened to them? They just disappeared? I would have liked to have seen them in Ultimates 3, maybe with an appearance by Ultimate Masters of Evil (I'm just throwing ideas out)? Who were they, exactly?
They were probably just created by Millar as a plot device for the creation of the Liberators, but we never really found anything else about them.
Vision and Ultron would have been interesting for Ultimates 3. It's kind of lame when
They were probably just created by Millar as a plot device for the creation of the Liberators, but we never really found anything else about them.
Vision and Ultron would have been interesting for Ultimates 3. It's kind of lame when
Iron Man is revealed to be Ultron in disguise.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Well they were shadow organizations acting "without" their government's consent working together to combat the american super power threat. Once they failed they probably split up either were disavowed, secretly executed, etc. But who knows they may pop up again. I see them as the Ultimate Hydra
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Much of Ultimates 2 was a pretty big failure.
