Ultimate Marvel Team-ups

[DIrishB]

But he's super smart! Maybe he went to college when he was 1!!!!!!

Ummmmm....

The fact that Latveria won the bid for reed richards in the last arc has me convinced that Victor Van Damne simply has superty dooper citizenships all over Europe. I'd guess that he set up base in Copenhagen because he knew he had political power there, but his true home is Latveria. I mean, Vlad Dracula wasn't Danish, he lived in Romania. Romania is near Latveria, if i'm correct...

And I mean, how long would it take a Latverian Noble with Mind-controlling devices to take over the Government of a post-USSR eastern european country? Like, ten minutes?

And I suspect a few years have passed since America was pushed out... but is that time enough for one of Latveria's top men to start pushing offers to Tony Stark about his suit?

I don't know. i hope they resolve this soon.

All very good points, you're the man Strangefate!

 

[AngryFlower]

Hey everyone, just signed up

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me wot happens in the spiderman super special. I really wanted to know what the Ultimate take on Blade and vampires was. It's annoying how difficult it is to track down Ultimate Team Up. I've found a few issues but i cant find the trades or the hardback anywhere.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Hey everyone, just signed up

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me wot happens in the spiderman super special. I really wanted to know what the Ultimate take on Blade and vampires was. It's annoying how difficult it is to track down Ultimate Team Up. I've found a few issues but i cant find the trades or the hardback anywhere.

It's a quick cameo the mythology behind Ultimate Vampires and Blade should be delt with in the Morbius/Blade arc coming in the future. BTW Welcome.

 

[AngryFlower]

Theres a Morbius/Blade arc comin up? In what title, Ultimate Spiderman?

 

[E]

Theres a Morbius/Blade arc comin up? In what title, Ultimate Spiderman?

Correct....welcome.

 

[Seldes Katne]

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me wot happens in the spiderman super special. I really wanted to know what the Ultimate take on Blade and vampires was. It's annoying how difficult it is to track down Ultimate Team Up. I've found a few issues but i cant find the trades or the hardback anywhere.

Hello, AngryFlower, and welcome!

The Spider-man Super Special had Spider-man interacting with a number of Marvel heroes and villains, with the over-all theme of Peter questioning whether or not being a superhero was the right thing to do. He foils an assassination attempt by Elektra, only to find that the person she was trying to kill was not a nice man and might have deserved what he got. Peter also has an encounter with Blade, and we discover the existance of vampires in the UU. Peter then goes to Daredevil for advise, and, not liking what he hears, volunteers to join the Fantastic Four. In the end, he pulls his thoughts together for a very touching tribute to someone he considers the best hero of all -- his father.

The trades are increasingly hard to find, but you can try here at these links for Amazon.com:

Ultimate Marvel Team-Up Volume 1

Ultimate Marvel Team-Up Volume 2

Ultimate Marvel Team-Up Volume 3

The Hardcover edition is supposedly here: Ultimate Marvel Team-Up HC

A word of warning: I would contact the sellers listed and make sure you're getting what the solicitations say the book is before buying; I ended up with two copies of Volume 2 because the person advertising didn't list the book's title and ISBN accurately. (I would be happy to send you my extra copy of volume 2, by the way, if you will PM me a mailing address. I really don't need two copies.)

 

[ultimatedjf]

Welcome AF!

 

[thee great one]

Welcome. Flower. May I ask...What are you so angry about?

 

[AngryFlower]

Meh theres always something to be angry at. It gives me a work ethic.

 

[notTHATtodd]

It never said anything about him not recognizing them. He only asked where he was, and they told him. Not to mention when they met up before in UMTU #11 they were all out of costume, whereas every time after they met up they were in costume. Again, the only issue of UMTU which can be "dis-cluded" as you put it, is UMTU #9 (see below).

Even Bendis says this issue isn't in Ultimate continuity, it was a joke issue, i guess an attempt for him to have some fun. There's too much stuff going on for it to be included, besides the ridiculous nature of the story. (thats why I don't include it in the timeline).

My point is, UMTU (all issues but #9) and the Ultimate Spider-Man Super Special still belong in Ultimate continuity. As for the Iron Man origin, I blame the discrepancies on Card, not Bendis. The Iron Man origin (however bland and 616-like it may have been) was written first, and Card decided to further gobbledygook the timeline by ignoring it and writing his own (I expect this might be a result of Card's huge ego). I do find Card's origin much more interesting (at least so far), but he could have made more of an attempt to reconcile the differences between the two. Another thing, Card's origin only comes into conflict with the first few pages of UMTU #4, when Peter is giving the speech about Tony Stark. The rest fits fine. If worse comes to worse, we can assume either Peter's info was faulty for some reason, or Tony made up some fake origin to tell to reporters/the public instead of the one where he had to wear a blue substance on his skin during his childhood. Sounds like something Tony would do just to screw with people, as a sort of joke.

If you want to consider Ultimate Marvel Team-Up not part of the continuity, thats fine, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. But officially its still considered in continuity, and until that changes, it'll stay a part of the timeline.

First, it isn't like the X-Men's costumes obscure their appearance in anyway. By the time USM #44 came out, they would have all appeared in books, television and magazines. Only Beast really looked any different.

As for Iron Man, Card was hired to write his origin, Bendis was hired to do Spiderman's. I don't see how he can be considered screwing up the continuity by doing what he was hired for. And to suggest that the man was even made aware of the UMTU issues with any support seems ridiculous to me. Most likely, he was told to just ignore everything that came before and take his own twist on the story. And he onviously enjoyed it as he stuck around for an additional 5 issues.

Personally, I find the need to cling to each and every comment made as some kind of holy map of continuity odd, and considering that UMTU was a failed title, to hold onto those stories even odder. As has been commented before, the entire series was only made available after the fact once, an odd thing to do for stories that Marvel would hold other writers to (That actualy makes me wonder if there isn't an Ultimate Punisher in the works). Also, I believe that it was the current editor-in-chief of Marvel who said that continuity is second to story, after all, a feeling that I share. That said, going forward, I'll bet that writers to come will use Card's origin as true and ignore any comment that was made offhand in UMTU. That miniseries is the Event while UMTU was the fizzle.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

That actualy makes me wonder if there isn't an Ultimate Punisher in the works

keep in mind that Punisher HAS appeared in mainstream USP.

But i also think that Ultimate Iron Man's origin is being created by Card and Bendis' is moot.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I think it's a lot of crap. Like you can't work a story around what's already been established? Honestly... It's not hard to do. I don't understand why comic book creators and even some fans find it acceptable that continuity can be thrown out the window. It's actually something that gets me really worked up so I'm just gonna say that it's stupid and pointless not to hold on too previous works and there's enough to be said about UIM that Card can work around what was talked about with Korea and college.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I think it's a lot of crap. Like you can't work a story around what's already been established? Honestly... It's not hard to do. I don't understand why comic book creators and even some fans find it acceptable that continuity can be thrown out the window. It's actually something that gets me really worked up so I'm just gonna say that it's stupid and pointless not to hold on too previous works and there's enough to be said about UIM that Card can work around what was talked about with Korea and college.

You know why I can't read 616 Marvel Comics these days without getting a big headache? Because rather than acknlowedge that some writing is just crap, and fixing it by means of a miniseries, or revisiting an earlier comic in the same title years later (like they've done repeatedly in the DC Universe), They try to work everything in to one solid continuity. Thats why bringing Claremont back to the X-men was a bad idea, he is digging up all of the little aspects of continuity that had been dead and buried because they CONFUSED THE HELL OUT OF EVERYONE.

Because of this, the DC Universe is interconnected and far more mature than a Universe where the destruction of New York City by Xorneto goes unnoticed by both the Fantastic Four, and Spider-Man, not to mention all the hundreds of other characters living in NYC. House of M will be interconnect things for a while, but it won't be permanent, and will end up messing up the X-Men continuity even more. The first Secret War didn't bring things together, the second is only being noticed in Bendis titles, and the Infinite Gauntless, and War, and whatever, never had long-lasting effects.


I'd rather a fluid continuity that was refreshed so it stays sensical and enjoyable, than a solid continuity that acknowledges every little thing. Thats where bad stories come from.

That being said, this problem shouldn't exist. If Bendis knew what he was doing, he shouldn't have dealt with Iron Man's origins unless he was willing to do it all. I mean, if they thought that the UU would take off, they should have known not to mess with the backstories of characters who would potentially have their own titles. Now Card gets to write it, and I'm fine writing off the half-assed original story. Maybe Tony was just having a bad dream, and it wasn't a flashback at all. Maybe Tony has screwed with the press into thinking he came from an entirely different background. Who knows what they'll do. But even though I dispise Orson Scott Card as a person, he's putting effort into making an origin that makes more sense to the character he is in Ultimates, and it'll be MUCH better than what Bendis did.

I have a much bigger problem with the Latveria situation, because the situations in those issues have been mentioned in realtime books. Specifically the Black Widow's role.... *shrug*

 

[thee great one]

You know why I can't read 616 Marvel Comics these days without getting a big headache? Because rather than acknlowedge that some writing is just crap, and fixing it by means of a miniseries, or revisiting an earlier comic in the same title years later (like they've done repeatedly in the DC Universe), They try to work everything in to one solid continuity. Thats why bringing Claremont back to the X-men was a bad idea, he is digging up all of the little aspects of continuity that had been dead and buried because they CONFUSED THE HELL OUT OF EVERYONE.

Because of this, the DC Universe is interconnected and far more mature than a Universe where the destruction of New York City by Xorneto goes unnoticed by both the Fantastic Four, and Spider-Man, not to mention all the hundreds of other characters living in NYC. House of M will be interconnect things for a while, but it won't be permanent, and will end up messing up the X-Men continuity even more. The first Secret War didn't bring things together, the second is only being noticed in Bendis titles, and the Infinite Gauntless, and War, and whatever, never had long-lasting effects.


I'd rather a fluid continuity that was refreshed so it stays sensical and enjoyable, than a solid continuity that acknowledges every little thing. Thats where bad stories come from.

That being said, this problem shouldn't exist. If Bendis knew what he was doing, he shouldn't have dealt with Iron Man's origins unless he was willing to do it all. I mean, if they thought that the UU would take off, they should have known not to mess with the backstories of characters who would potentially have their own titles. Now Card gets to write it, and I'm fine writing off the half-assed original story. Maybe Tony was just having a bad dream, and it wasn't a flashback at all. Maybe Tony has screwed with the press into thinking he came from an entirely different background. Who knows what they'll do. But even though I dispise Orson Scott Card as a person, he's putting effort into making an origin that makes more sense to the character he is in Ultimates, and it'll be MUCH better than what Bendis did.

I have a much bigger problem with the Latveria situation, because the situations in those issues have been mentioned in realtime books. Specifically the Black Widow's role.... *shrug*

:rockon:

 

[ourchair]

You know why I can't read 616 Marvel Comics these days without getting a big headache? Because rather than acknlowedge that some writing is just crap, and fixing it by means of a miniseries, or revisiting an earlier comic in the same title years later (like they've done repeatedly in the DC Universe), They try to work everything in to one solid continuity. Thats why bringing Claremont back to the X-men was a bad idea, he is digging up all of the little aspects of continuity that had been dead and buried because they CONFUSED THE HELL OUT OF EVERYONE.

I don't agree with all your points, but I do think that the problem with Claremont rehashing all the little aspects of continuity is that he had written those things somewhere between less than to over a decade prior to his return on the book that NOBODY CARED.

I mean imagine if David Michelinie returned to writing in Amazing Spider-Man with all sorts of references to the fate of Nick Katzenberg. Or if Fabian Nicieza returned to X-Men and started talking about the psychological implications of Jean Grey temporarily storing her brain patterns into Emma Frost.

They're not entirely invalid plot points to pick up on, but they've faded so much into obscurity that they're hardly an issue anyone remembers anymore. Claremont refuses to acknowledge this and I suspect its because he's convinced that people are indiscriminately beholden to EVERYTHING he's done in X-Men.

 

[DIrishB]

First, it isn't like the X-Men's costumes obscure their appearance in anyway. By the time USM #44 came out, they would have all appeared in books, television and magazines. Only Beast really looked any different.

Again, its not really THAT big a deal, chalk it up to another one of those Ultimate things.

As for Iron Man, Card was hired to write his origin, Bendis was hired to do Spiderman's. I don't see how he can be considered screwing up the continuity by doing what he was hired for.

Bendis wrote Ultimate Iron Man's origin first, end of story. If anything, Card could have at least attempted to incorporate this previous story's info on Tony. Point is, he decided to completely ignore all this.

And to suggest that the man was even made aware of the UMTU issues with any support seems ridiculous to me. Most likely, he was told to just ignore everything that came before and take his own twist on the story. And he onviously enjoyed it as he stuck around for an additional 5 issues.

To suggest the man was made aware of the UMTU issues seems ridiculous to you? Ummm, have you ever heard of something called researching the characters you're hired to scribe...especially when in concerns their origin which has already been established (and this shouldn't be too hard considering IM has only appeared in the Ultimates and related minis, with a few notable guest appearances in other titles). Given, I prefer Card's origin so far, its just more interesting. But he and the Ultimate editors obviously made a choice to just ignore this and take their own route. Which is fine, but the last thing the Ultimate Universe needs is more continuity issues, and thats what Card created with his origin. Again, it wouldn't have been difficult to incorporate the UMTU Iron Man origin into the IM mini. In the UMTU issues, Tony wasn't an only child, his mother was a school teacher, and he was a famous child prodigy who appeared on numerous gameshows. In Card's origin, Tony IS an only child, his mother is dead, and he's a child prodigy who is living basically undercover (least for the first couple issues when Stane was hunting him). I mean, the only thing Card could have done to make him more different would be to make him a retarded female hemophiliac.

Personally, I find the need to cling to each and every comment made as some kind of holy map of continuity odd, and considering that UMTU was a failed title, to hold onto those stories even odder.

I disagree. I realize the point of the Ultimate Universe is to tell stories first, but personally, I find it hard to take things seriously when you have all these continuity screw-ups. It makes more sense to me to have a concrete history for your universe to occur in, thereby making it more realistic and believable as opposed to say, having a character with different origins. And even though UMTU didn't last, many of its stories are intrinsic to later events (this is like the eigth time I've listed this, but here goes again: the Spidey/Hulk team-up is directly referenced in Ultimates, Black Widow joining SHIELD, etc).

As has been commented before, the entire series was only made available after the fact once, an odd thing to do for stories that Marvel would hold other writers to (That actualy makes me wonder if there isn't an Ultimate Punisher in the works). Also, I believe that it was the current editor-in-chief of Marvel who said that continuity is second to story, after all, a feeling that I share. That said, going forward, I'll bet that writers to come will use Card's origin as true and ignore any comment that was made offhand in UMTU. That miniseries is the Event while UMTU was the fizzle.

I do agree on these points though. But you aren't going to convince me UMTU isn't in-continuity.

Maybe Tony has screwed with the press into thinking he came from an entirely different background.

This is the approach I'm taking to explaining the difference. Kinda weak, I know, but what can you do?

I think it's a lot of crap. Like you can't work a story around what's already been established? Honestly... It's not hard to do. I don't understand why comic book creators and even some fans find it acceptable that continuity can be thrown out the window. It's actually something that gets me really worked up so I'm just gonna say that it's stupid and pointless not to hold on too previous works and there's enough to be said about UIM that Card can work around what was talked about with Korea and college.

Amen, brother.

 

[Ice]

Bendis wrote Ultimate Iron Man's origin first, end of story. If anything, Card could have at least attempted to incorporate this previous story's info on Tony. Point is, he decided to completely ignore all this.

Not really end of story because remember its not always the writer. The editor's are in part as well. Although it may not have been the greatest of stories, the Wolvie/Spidey team-up was the idea of Nick Lowe and not Bendis, and Bendis went with it. So basically, Im just saying that there IS that chance that the editors had a play in there, too, and not JUST Card.


Think outside the box, dude. Outside the box.

 

[DIrishB]

Not really end of story because remember its not always the writer. The editor's are in part as well. Although it may not have been the greatest of stories, the Wolvie/Spidey team-up was the idea of Nick Lowe and not Bendis, and Bendis went with it. So basically, Im just saying that there IS that chance that the editors had a play in there, too, and not JUST Card.


Think outside the box, dude. Outside the box.

You're absolutely right, which is why Marvel should fire Macchio, Lowe, and company and hire me to edit the Ultimate books.



And I don't think I've ever thought "inside" the box, Ice. Thats why I don't like Justin Timberlake or Vin Diesel.

 

[Ice]

You're absolutely right, which is why Marvel should fire Macchio, Lowe, and company and hire me to edit the Ultimate books.

Hmm...there's an idea.

:lol:

And I don't think I've ever thought "inside" the box, Ice. Thats why I don't like Justin Timberlake or Vin Diesel.

That's cuz you think inside a circle. A crazy cirlcle.

 

[DIrishB]

Hmm...there's an idea.

:lol:



That's cuz you think inside a circle. A crazy cirlcle.

A Perfect Circle.