Ultimate Ages

[compound]

*Insert off-topic debates about the quantifiable difference between "few", "some", "several", "many" and "quite"*

"many" = people who HAVE AN OPINION about Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"some" = people who READ Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"several" = people who BOUGHT Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"few" = people who LIKED Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"quite" = measure of how criminally poor the taste of those "few" must be

 

[Hawkeye101]

And still none of you have refuted my point about Gulf War I with no SHIELD and Hawkeye's comment about being there to bring 'em down. . .

 

[ourchair]

"many" = people who HAVE AN OPINION about Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"some" = people who READ Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"several" = people who BOUGHT Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"few" = people who LIKED Card's Ultimate Iron Man
"quite" = measure of how criminally poor the taste of those "few" must be

I dare you to post that into Wikipedia under an entry for "quantification" as potential 'bad jokes and other deleted nonsense' material.

 

[compound]

And still none of you have refuted my point about Gulf War I with no SHIELD and Hawkeye's comment about being there to bring 'em down. . .

Nothing I hate more than seeing a grown man whine...

I was reading 'Return to Weapon X" and Fury was in Gulf War I. There was no SHIELD mentions or emblems anywhere, implying that SHIELD had yet to be established in 1991 when Gulf War I happened.

It's completely possible that SHIELD existed during Gulf War 1, but it didn't have any emblems. In all likelihood, it probably started as a clandestine black-ops unit primarily engaged in back-office work -- tracing money laundering that funded the Soviets, looking into Communist paper trails, maybe doing psi-ops work, undercover missions. That's certainly the impression I get from the "you, me, and a bar tab" comment.

Thus, I don't see any reason why SHIELD ought to have a formal insignia, or for its operatives to display a symbol identifying them as part of an espionage unit. (That's why, it's, like, espionage. Duh.)

It would make sense that SHIELD only underwent expansion in the wake of the attacks on New York City and Washington. Basically, not long after the resoltion to form the Ultimates was passed, the Trisk' was commissioned, and the Homeland Security Department was established. I doubt they needed any formal insignia, prior to those events.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Nothing I hate more than seeing a grown man whine...


It's completely possible that SHIELD existed during Gulf War 1, but it didn't have any emblems. In all likelihood, it probably started as a clandestine black-ops unit primarily engaged in back-office work -- tracing money laundering that funded the Soviets, looking into Communist paper trails, maybe doing psi-ops work, undercover missions. That's certainly the impression I get from the "you, me, and a bar tab" comment.

Thus, I don't see any reason why SHIELD ought to have a formal insignia, or for its operatives to display a symbol identifying them as part of an espionage unit. (That's why, it's, like, espionage. Duh.)

It would make sense that SHIELD only underwent expansion in the wake of the attacks on New York City and Washington. Basically, not long after the resoltion to form the Ultimates was passed, the Trisk' was commissioned, and the Homeland Security Department was established. I doubt they needed any formal insignia, prior to those events.

Yet, there was no mention of SHIELD anywhere and I have been told by some of you that Nick Fury himself was one of the founders of SHIELD. If he had founded SHIELD, by this point, why is he still a grunt in the US army?

 

[MarvelWarrior]

I like this thread, I've been wondering about ages myself. How old are the Ultimate FF and how old do you think Moonknight, Elektra, Blackcat and DD are?

 

[Pandrio]

I like this thread, I've been wondering about ages myself. How old are the Ultimate FF?

Well, Reed was 21 in the first issue.

 

[ourchair]

It's completely possible that SHIELD existed during Gulf War 1, but it didn't have any emblems. In all likelihood, it probably started as a clandestine black-ops unit primarily engaged in back-office work -- tracing money laundering that funded the Soviets, looking into Communist paper trails, maybe doing psi-ops work, undercover missions. That's certainly the impression I get from the "you, me, and a bar tab" comment.

I've always thought of its pre-Ultimates existence resembling something between the Wildstorm Universe's UN Superhuman Security and Intelligence Advisory Office run by Jackson King or Stormwatch: Team Achilles.

Thus, I don't see any reason why SHIELD ought to have a formal insignia, or for its operatives to display a symbol identifying them as part of an espionage unit. (That's why, it's, like, espionage. Duh.)

It would make sense that SHIELD only underwent expansion in the wake of the attacks on New York City and Washington. Basically, not long after the resoltion to form the Ultimates was passed, the Trisk' was commissioned, and the Homeland Security Department was established. I doubt they needed any formal insignia, prior to those events.

What supports your theory is that the SHIELD logo is prominently advertised in the skyscrapers of New York in Ultimate Spider-Man, almost as if they were trying to be an overbearingly reassuring presence of security against post-human threat.

Whereas if we were talking about other security departments in the government, the advertising wouldn't be necessary as their role is taken for granted almost as if their mindshare value isn't really something they concern themselves with.

 

[E]

I dare you to post that into Wikipedia under an entry for "quantification" as potential 'bad jokes and other deleted nonsense' material.

I double dare you.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Im still waiting for a decent argumanet for my discoveries.

As for the FF, Just before they went public, Johnny Storm was sent to Midtown High, as a senior, hes 18. Reed, Sue, and Ben wer 21 when the first one came out, and by now they are all caught up with the rest of the UU, so their about 22, but I'm willing to go to 23. Daredevil was a sophomore or Junior at Colombia University when he met Elektra who was 17 at the time. To have your own law firm, you'd at least have to be 24 (as stated by a real-life lawyer). Even younger if you took college courses in High School, sa at least 24, and since Matt was always a book worm. . . any way, DD=24 or <, Elektra 21 or <, since we have no idea exactly how much time has surpassed between Devil's Due to the present in the UMU. In UMTU DD tells Spider-Man to 'come back in 10 years, after SM admits to being 16. This really doesn't specify DD's age, but close to 26 I'd imagine to specify ten years.

Shadow Cat-15
Spider-Man-16
Nightcrawler-16
Rogue-16
Iceman-17
Angel-17
Dazzler-18
Human Torch-18
Cyclops-19
Colossus-20
Storm-20
Marvel Girl-20
Mr. Fantastic-23
Invisible Woman-23
Thing-23
Scarlet Witch-25
Quick Silver-25
Wasp-27
Hawkeye-28
Hulk-28
Giant Man-29
Iron Man-32
Black Widow-32
Thor-33
Punisher-35
Fury-55
Captain America-83
Wolverine-125 (under the presumption that he was born in the same year as 616)

(P.S. I did this from memory off of the top of my head. If you see something wrong, let me know.)

 

[ProjectX2]

Iceman is 17? I was thinking 15/16 at the most.

EDIT: And you've got Spider-Man at 16. He only said he was 16 in the Super Special, he's been 15 everywhere else. So it's either a continuity error or it's in the future. Or Pete's joking/lying.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Iceman is 17? I was thinking 15/16 at the most.

EDIT: And you've got Spider-Man at 16. He only said he was 16 in the Super Special, he's been 15 everywhere else. So it's either a continuity error or it's in the future. Or Pete's joking/lying.

Well, he WAS 15 whn the series started, but I'm figuring there has been enough time to be 16 by now, I think he only said 15 at his date with MJ because the whole thing was fake anyway. Iceman too was 15 when UXM started, and I was under the impression that UXM started before USM, so Bobby has had some time to get older.

 

[ProjectX2]

Well, he WAS 15 whn the series started, but I'm figuring there has been enough time to be 16 by now, I think he only said 15 at his date with MJ because the whole thing was fake anyway. Iceman too was 15 when UXM started, and I was under the impression that UXM started before USM, so Bobby has had some time to get older.

I just realised we haven't had any birthday parties in the entire Ultimate Universe.

 

[Doc Comic]

In the Warriors arc, Peter just said that he was fifteen. I remember it.

Iceman is also 15, as he was just recently said to be a freshman along with Kitty at Xavier's.

 

[Pandrio]

Well, he WAS 15 whn the series started, but I'm figuring there has been enough time to be 16 by now, I think he only said 15 at his date with MJ because the whole thing was fake anyway. Iceman too was 15 when UXM started, and I was under the impression that UXM started before USM, so Bobby has had some time to get older.

Well, USM came first, and they already said in Hobgoblin that the whole story took place over 9 months. If Doc Comic is right, I dont know since I read it in trade, then there is still less than a year of time in the whole series.
It is a lot easier to just go by the timeline for when series started anyway.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Well, USM came first, and they already said in Hobgoblin that the whole story took place over 9 months. If Doc Comic is right, I dont know since I read it in trade, then there is still less than a year of time in the whole series.
It is a lot easier to just go by the timeline for when series started anyway.

Roger that.

And to note, I don't think that senior/freshman class at Xaviers has anything to do with age, because, Nightcrawler (who was fourteen at first appearance) is a member of the senior class.

 

[Hawkeye101]

crap, sorry this was an accident.

 

[Entropy]

Im still waiting for a decent argumanet for my discoveries.

Hawkeye-28
Hulk-28
Fury-40

I would make Bruce a little older, probably mid-30s like Tony and Natasha. Thats just personal view, he seemed older than Pym and had been working on the SS project for years. Being 28 is plausible but I think tacking on a few more years sounds better.

As for Fury and Hawkeye though, there's no way those ages could be correct. Fury said outright in Ultimates #10 that he served in Vietnam. American involvement in Vietnam ended in January '73, which would mean Fury would have to have served at the very latest in '72. Unless he was 7 when he signed up, he has to be at least 51. As for Hawkeye, if he's 28 now, then he would have had to have been active and serving at 12 to be in Berlin for the fall of the wall. I'm willing to believe Hawkeye was drafted and training at an earlier age due to his talents, but he still has to be in his 30s and the same age range as Tony and Natasha.

 

[Hawkeye101]

I would make Bruce a little older, probably mid-30s like Tony and Natasha. Thats just personal view, he seemed older than Pym and had been working on the SS project for years. Being 28 is plausible but I think tacking on a few more years sounds better.

As for Fury and Hawkeye though, there's no way those ages could be correct. Fury said outright in Ultimates #10 that he served in Vietnam. American involvement in Vietnam ended in January '73, which would mean Fury would have to have served at the very latest in '72. Unless he was 7 when he signed up, he has to be at least 51. As for Hawkeye, if he's 28 now, then he would have had to have been active and serving at 12 to be in Berlin for the fall of the wall. I'm willing to believe Hawkeye was drafted and training at an earlier age due to his talents, but he still has to be in his 30s and the same age range as Tony and Natasha.

It never said he was serving when the Berlin wall came down. He could have been an exchange student, or the son of a military father stationed in Germany. Never once did it say he was serving in Germany. And thanks for the Fury reminder. As for Banner, he nad Betty went to college together, Betty and Jan were roomies in college, and Jan clearly says that she is 26 in Homeland Security, which means Betty is of Similar age, which means Bruce is of similar age.

 

[DIrishB]

I was reading 'Return to Weapon X" and Fury was in Gulf War I. There was no SHIELD mentions or emblems anywhere, implying that SHIELD had yet to be established in 1991 when Gulf War I happened. The Soviet Union fell, in 1989, officially ending government power in 1990. So, in order for SHIELD it's self to have dealt with the Soviet Union, pockets of it would have had to survive beyond 1991. And thank you Entrophy for correcting me. On that same note, Hawkeye still did say "A few years back. . .". A few at best is three. The Ultimates were formed in 2002, according to 'Super-Human'. If only a year has passed since 'Homeland Security', then hawk is only one year older than what he was in the last bit. If SHIELD brough Hawk in at 18, like my story suggests, and SHIELD had to have been created after 1991, he could very well be 27 in Homeland security, and 28 in 'Gods and Monsters'.

Maybe Fury wasn't the first member of SHIELD, and Hawkeye's membership began earlier on, he just didn't rank as high si had less to do with SHIELD's build-up, something Fury is given credit for. Also, who's to say he didn't start SHIELD in the mid to late 1980's, then went to fight during the Gulf War, then returned to SHIELD once the war was over? You're assuming a lot again.