Ultimate Ages

[Ice]

Right, and unless Valkyrie was underage and in addition to being a wife-beater Hank is also guilty of statutory rape, I think that means he's older than 27 or whatever.

Didn't it say that Valkerie was 19? I know I read that somewhere.

 

[moonmaster]

Didn't it say that Valkerie was 19? I know I read that somewhere.

I'm pretty sure they say she's 19 in U2#6

 

[DIrishB]

Didn't it say that Valkerie was 19? I know I read that somewhere.

I don't remember. So I guess that puts Hank at around 29.

 

[ProjectX2]

Valkyrie was 19, and turning 20 in a couple of weeks. Hank said he was older than her by 10 years, so he would be 29 turning 30.

 

[DIrishB]

Valkyrie was 19, and turning 20 in a couple of weeks. Hank said he was older than her by 10 years, so he would be 29 turning 30.

Gotcha.

 

[E]

This was split off from another thread...I seem to remember another thread about arguing ages but I don't see it...if someone wants to direct me to it or a mod merge it I would appreciate it.

 

[Freeway420]

One: Women are in their prime in their thirties, not men, who are in their prime in mid to late twenties. Two: nine to ten years is pleanty of time to know the ropes about SHIELD. Three: One reason they started the Ultimate Universe was becuase in 616 the characters were getting too old or should be too old. They wanted EVERYONE to be as young as possible in the Ultimate Universe, so they could have another forty years or so with them, which would be like twenty years to those who live int the Ultimate Universe

Cap- 82
Thor- 30
Iron Man- 31
Giant-Man- 27
Wasp- 27
Hulk- 27
Black Widow- 31
Hawkeye- 27
Scarlet Witch & Quick Silver- (not quite sure, since they seemed really young in UXM, but seem older in Ultimates). 25?

Not to add more fuel to the fire, but I recall either Bendis, Jemas or Quesada saying that the point of Ultimate was to ditch the needlessly complicated continuity without losing the essences of the characters. Character ages were never really mentioned as a reason, since Marvel's only aged anybody by 10 years during the last 40+.

 

[compound]

This was split off from another thread...I seem to remember another thread about arguing ages but I don't see it...if someone wants to direct me to it or a mod merge it I would appreciate it.

Perhaps you're referring to this one, which deals exclusively with Ultimate X-Men ages?

 

[E]

Perhaps you're referring to this one, which deals exclusively with Ultimate X-Men ages?

That must be it. Ah well, carry on.

Thanks.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Hawkeye is Under Thirty, Hawkeye101 can proove it

I know there has been some speculation of how old Hawkeye is and Most of you think he's over thirty, I am one of theonly ones who think he's younger than that. Any way I was flipping through my Ultimate Trades and stumbled apon some passages and events that proove my stance.

For starters, I have already stated that I bleieve in the Ultimate Universe, pockets of The Soviet Union survived it's fall in 1990. And that thses pockets were SHIELD's main concern in the 1990's, basically Ultimate Hydra. At the time, it was only speculation, due to Hawkeye's comment "A few years back SHIELD was just you, me and a drinks tab trying to bring down what was left of the Soviet Union."

DIrishB found this hokey at best (no offense buddy). However, I hav found new evidence that supports this theory. In 'Return to Weapon X' the flash back was Nick Fury in Gulf War I, as a soldiger in battle. All of his superiors back at base are wearing standard military out fits with the American Military eagle on them not the SHIELD bird (which I assume is an eagle). Next no one mentions that they are apart of SHIELD, but rather the regular army. And everyone knows that the gulf war was in 1991. AFTER the fall of the Soviet Union. And SHIELD had yet to be established. Which means SHIELD was not around to bring the government of teh Soviet Union down.

Mark Millar wrote both stories. And he even wrote Return to Weapon X as a prelude to the Ultimates. They were shutting down Weapon X to Bring forward the new age of Super-Soldgers. Between Hawkeyes comment : "A few years back SHIELD was just you, me and a drinks tab trying to bring down what was left of the Soviet Union." and the fact that SHIELD had yet to be established during Gulf War I AFTER the events of the fall of the Soviet Union. Which means that There WERE pockets of the Soviet Union left after the fall of the Soviet Union as a government in the UU. And that SHIELD was formed after the gulf war, 1992 or later (presumably before Clinton reached office, since Democrat presidents usually don't do well with military spending).

This only supports my theory that Hawkeye is younger than everyone seems to make him out to be. Between him, Janet, Betty, Hank, and Bruce, they're raning from 27 to 30. No older. Thor, yes now that I've re-read it is about 33, Tony and Natasha can be as old as whatever, since each of them have abilities that slow the aging process. Cap, 82/83 (twenty something mentally). Nick Fury, forty or older. So there you have it Hawkeye younger than 30.

 

[MoS]

What, the sky falls in if Hawkeye is over 30?

You have a nce list of completely circumstantial evidence there - I usually just go by how old Hitch draws him to look, which is usually early- to mid-thirties but occasionally closer to 40. Somehow he looks oldest in full military uniform, youngest in V2 #7, lounging around the house in a tshirt. It's not very consistent, which goes along with how old his kids are - the V1 they all look like they could be somewhere around ten, with the oldest just about to hit the teen years. In V2 #5 they look they are in between about 3 and 7, yet in the latest issue the youngest can be inferred to be either an infant or very young.

Jan looks like she is in her late 20s, the Widow looks somewhere between 25 and 35, Tony is definitely in his early 30s, as is Cap. Hank is another one that changes age, but I'd peg him at least late 20s if not early 30s. Banner always looked younger than the rest and confused, mid 20s at best (which is inconsistent with how old his character HAS to be, but we'll let that slide). Fury is at least in his 40s and maybe late 40s. The twins... mid to late 20s, I'd say. Thor most often looks sort of timeless, that whole "epic hero" thing. He could be 25 or 250.

All of that depends on the issue, the angle and phases of the moon, but there is usually a shot I think of when I think of a certain character.

 

[Pandrio]

Well, I guess if it makes you happy Hawkeye101, I agree.



No I Don't

 

[Fuzzy Birds]

Well, I guess if it makes you happy Hawkeye101, I agree.



No I Don't

:lol:

Personally, ignoring all the 'facts', I'd say he was around Fury's age. He just feels like that from the artwork and the writing really.

 

[Entropy]

I gotta throw my 2¢ in on this. For starters, the line Hawkeye uses at the end of Ultimates #9 was "A few years back, SHIELD was just you, me and a drinks tab trying to bring down the Soviet Union" Not "what was left" he was talking about the USSR itself. I have no further comment on that part of the debate, I just wanted to clarify a misquote.

However, I think I can of conclusive proof that Hawkeye is in his 30s. At the end of Ultimates #13, at the end of the battle with the Chitauri when Jan is standing there with Hawkeye, he specifically states "I was in Germany the night the Berlin Wall came down." Assuming he was speaking of the day Schabowski announced East Berliners would be allowed to cross the border, that would put the date as November 9th, 1989. He spoke of Kosovo and Afghanistan in the same sentence, so its pretty easy to infer that Hawkeye was there in a military capacity. Unless he was an active member of the military at 14, there's no way he can be under 30.

I do think he is still fairly young. I believe its been told to us that Hawkeye was recruited at a young age because of his proficiency and skill and he was training for the Olympics. Quite a number of athletes begin training and even competing in the Olympics in their early teens, and I would be willing to bet thats what Hawkeye was doing. So, even though he might not have been a MEMBER of SHIELD at the time, I don't think its too much of a stretch to believe that the government snagged Hawkeye in his early teens. I mean, the man is quite possibly the most deadly weapons-man on the planet. So they bag him early and put him in training. On those grounds, I wouldn't say it was too much of a stretch to say Hawkeye was possibly 16, more possibly 17 or 18 the night the Wall fell. Tack on the extra years and he falls at roughly 33 which I think is the appropriate age.

He would be an experienced and hardened veteran by that age, he would be in his physical prime (an adult male's physical peak doesn't typically crest until 27 and training and health regimens can stretch it well into their 40s), and he would still be young enough to have a family of the age and size portrayed.

Thats my stance on the matter.

 

[MoS]

The problem I have with trying to use other Ultimate Universe titles for continuity is that no less a person than Joe Quesada, who would only notice Marvel Continuity if it rose from its grave as a zombie and lumbered after him, shouting "brains!", has admitted that there are some "serious continuity issues" within the Ultimate U which will have to be addressed at some point (I think it was one of the Wizard World Cup o' Joe panels).

The great thing about Hawkeye being 35 or so in Ultimates is that by the time YOU are 35, he'll still be 35. Assuming he's still among the living, of course.

 

[Hawkeye101]

I was reading 'Return to Weapon X" and Fury was in Gulf War I. There was no SHIELD mentions or emblems anywhere, implying that SHIELD had yet to be established in 1991 when Gulf War I happened. The Soviet Union fell, in 1989, officially ending government power in 1990. So, in order for SHIELD it's self to have dealt with the Soviet Union, pockets of it would have had to survive beyond 1991. And thank you Entrophy for correcting me. On that same note, Hawkeye still did say "A few years back. . .". A few at best is three. The Ultimates were formed in 2002, according to 'Super-Human'. If only a year has passed since 'Homeland Security', then hawk is only one year older than what he was in the last bit. If SHIELD brough Hawk in at 18, like my story suggests, and SHIELD had to have been created after 1991, he could very well be 27 in Homeland security, and 28 in 'Gods and Monsters'.

 

[ourchair]

What, the sky falls in if Hawkeye is over 30?

You have a nce list of completely circumstantial evidence there - I usually just go by how old Hitch draws him to look, which is usually early- to mid-thirties but occasionally closer to 40. Somehow he looks oldest in full military uniform, youngest in V2 #7, lounging around the house in a tshirt. It's not very consistent, which goes along with how old his kids are - the V1 they all look like they could be somewhere around ten, with the oldest just about to hit the teen years. In V2 #5 they look they are in between about 3 and 7, yet in the latest issue the youngest can be inferred to be either an infant or very young.

Jan looks like she is in her late 20s, the Widow looks somewhere between 25 and 35, Tony is definitely in his early 30s, as is Cap. Hank is another one that changes age, but I'd peg him at least late 20s if not early 30s. Banner always looked younger than the rest and confused, mid 20s at best (which is inconsistent with how old his character HAS to be, but we'll let that slide). Fury is at least in his 40s and maybe late 40s. The twins... mid to late 20s, I'd say. Thor most often looks sort of timeless, that whole "epic hero" thing. He could be 25 or 250.

All of that depends on the issue, the angle and phases of the moon, but there is usually a shot I think of when I think of a certain character.

I like your attention to detail.

My reasoning on how to calculate Hawkeye's age is kind of stupid but simple: Clint Barton to me, is the only character who hasn't endured intensive surgery and steroids, sport cybernetic armor, wield a dimension warping hammer or is dependent on mutant hormones yet is probably one of the toughest guys you'll ever find in the espionage business. But Hawkeye is out of his league, not in terms of abilties, but in the sense that he's gone from the world of cloak and dagger to the insanity of posthumans and global catacylsm.

A sane man in an insane world. Which describes just about half of Kiefer Sutherland's roles.in that in my head, he is voiced by Kiefer Sutherland (who did the English dub of Armitage III: Poly Matrix). And this is how I calculate Hawkeye's age. Kiefer is actually forty plus years old but plays a 35 year old on Fox's 24. Therefore Hawkeye is 35-45 at the convenience of whoever has written him and will be writing him in the future.

 

[E]

On that same note, Hawkeye still did say "A few years back. . .". A few at best is three.

You can't just arbitrarily assign a definite value like that to support your argument.

 

[Entropy]

I like your attention to detail.

My reasoning on how to calculate Hawkeye's age is kind of stupid but simple: Clint Barton to me, is the only character who hasn't endured intensive surgery and steroids, sport cybernetic armor, wield a dimension warping hammer or is dependent on mutant hormones yet is probably one of the toughest guys you'll ever find in the espionage business. But Hawkeye is out of his league, not in terms of abilties, but in the sense that he's gone from the world of cloak and dagger to the insanity of posthumans and global catacylsm.

A sane man in an insane world. Which describes just about half of Kiefer Sutherland's roles.in that in my head, he is voiced by Kiefer Sutherland (who did the English dub of Armitage III: Poly Matrix). And this is how I calculate Hawkeye's age. Kiefer is actually forty plus years old but plays a 35 year old on Fox's 24. Therefore Hawkeye is 35-45 at the convenience of whoever has written him and will be writing him in the future.

You know, I've been trying to figure out forever who Hawkeye reminds me of, and your 100% right, it IS Keifer Sutherland. Thank you.

 

[ourchair]

You can't just arbitrarily assign a definite value like that to support your argument.

*Insert off-topic debates about the quantifiable difference between "few", "some", "several", "many" and "quite"*