The Ultimates 2 #4 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Bass]

Another truly great issue. A few things in support of our pal Thor:

-Gunnar/Loki was also at the riot in Italy, he is in the bottom left of the big panel where the cops are just starting to wail on the protesters. Loki was manipulating the cops to attack the protesters in order to create a situation which he could turn against Thor, just as he has been doing all along.

Oh my god.

You're right.

He IS there.

I'm off to scour the rest of the books to see if I can find him again.

 

[SeAcoW]

Hey all. Glad to have found the ultimate collection of ulti-maniacs.

Loki's weapon- any chance this is the ultimate version of the cosmic cube? I am not that familiar with the original verse Thor. Could Loki change reality in that series? Because I am wondering how he is changing things. After all Fury believes that he already knew about Thorleif. That is a very specific memory to have. How was it implanted? I am guessing the cosmic cube.

Welcome ?

 

[Bass]

*searching frantically through copies of the Ultimates with an electron microscope*

Yeah, yeah, er... welcome, whoever you are.

*searching frantically through copies of the Ultimates with an electron microscope*

 

[Wamu]

non-thor related stuff

Okay, so how long will Cap and Wasp stay together? I am not getting a good vibe from the two. Perhaps they should go on Doctor Phil and get their relationship issues worked out. :wink:

Ironman and Black Window. I got one thing to say. ironclad prenup. :wink:

Pym-Ultron baby, oh yeah ultron.

all right later you all. I have got to see how I am doing in the NCAA pool.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I was trying to look for her in the the last panels but I was wondering if anyone caught if Black Widow was wearing the armor or if she was there at all. I would think that she wouldn't be there at all considering she's on the shadow team or whatever. I was just interested on if she was actually going to use the armor.

 

[Seldes Katne]

It's going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong month.

[snip]

I love how we've been going "Who's Thor?" and then Loki (and it's Loki, we know it) tells this "MiracleMan"-esque story with no awe, no hope and no wonder, and we start going, "No! He is the God of Thunder! He must be!" and our hearts feel for Thor.

Terrific writing. I'm in love.

I have to agree with this. I had remarked on another thread here that I haven't enjoyed comic book characterization like this since ElfQuest 20 years ago. And here I am getting worked up about a fictional character again. I think in many respects Thor appeals to the desire many of us have to experience things that are beyond the material, rational world around us, the hope that there's some greater power that cares about us and will insure that everything works out right in the end.

Oh, and one more thing: Thor as Jesus Christ parallel #732: I wouldn't be surprised if the forest that Thor is waiting in is called "Gethesemane.

Even if it isn't called that, it's certainly symbolic of Gethsemane.

Thor can teleport anywhere. Possibily within dimensions. And he's kneeling by Mjolnir, the posture of prayer, waiting for the Ultimates and what does he say? "Let my people go."

I tend to associate that last quote with Moses, rather than Jesus, but I agree with your observation. As I recall, Jesus' disciples fled when he was arrested; Thor's had to be sent away. (Perhaps symbolic of humanity wanting to get it right this time?)

Just as an off-the-cuff observation, I think it's interesting that this issue of The Ultimates came out right before Holy Week and Easter.

 

[E]

Oh, and one more thing: Thor as Jesus Christ parallel #732:

AWESOME. Great pickup there.

 

[Bass]

The "let my people go" is a Moses line, I was just taking dramatic license.

I mean, I could've also go one about the imagery of the final battle of Thor: How The Ultimates, deceived by Loki, cannot see the forest for the trees.

I have to agree with this. I had remarked on another thread here that I haven't enjoyed comic book characterization like this since ElfQuest 20 years ago. And here I am getting worked up about a fictional character again.

Fictional? FICTIONAL?! Thor ain't fictional! Loki's gotten to you too, you deceitful cow!

Aaah! Don't restrain me!

I have proof!

Thor will save us all from L...... :crazy:

This message has been interrupted by the police. Please continue with your day.

 

[Bass]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned the second leak of Captain Italy, that started the protests, the got Thor in trouble, that ate the cat, the caught the mouse, in the house that Gunnar built.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Was Loki behind both?

With all the stuff going on, how can it all fit into #5?

Find out, same Ultimate-Time, same Ultimate-Channel!

 

[The Captain]

Captain Ultimate

I think in many respects Thor appeals to the desire many of us have to experience things that are beyond the material, rational world around us, the hope that there's some greater power that cares about us and will insure that everything works out right in the end.

May i add that what you wrote was very beautiful.....this was my first issue of the Ultimates (go ahead everyone, i know ive been missing out, ill get the vol 1 tpbs..) I was highly impressed, no fighting and i still felt the story moving along smoothly..a balance of talking, imagery and humanity made this one my book of the week, beating out the almighty ultimate spider-man...

I am left with a lot of questions being as though i dont regularly read this book...

black widow and iron man!? huh!!? i dont think it will last..

cap dating the wasp....thats left field for me....

giant man working on something that appears to make him (turn into ) ant man!!?

Ultimate thor is awesome, i see why a lot of you adore him...hitch makes him look as powers as the characters he drew in the authority I loved the mystique placed on thor...it as if millar is making you question religion as a whole...Im hoping things work out and Thor is proven innocent....Loki needs to be more of a behind the scenes guy PERIOD..

Great observation doc strangefate, i had to reread the issue again (not like it was a problem ) to see what you and seldes were talking about....
see you next issue!

 

[The Captain]

I don't know about you guys, but I believe Thor. But damn, that last scene, the best part I've read in the Ultimates series so far.

that last page was awesome!!!! "sorry chum, your nuts and youre going down!!"
THATS IN YOUR FACE there.....if it wasnt for bendis humor, id love to trade bendis for millar....but that would mean like 6 issues of ultimate spidey a year....

 

[E]

May i add that what you wrote was very beautiful.....this was my first issue of the Ultimates (go ahead everyone, i know ive been missing out, ill get the vol 1 tpbs..) I was highly impressed, no fighting and i still felt the story moving along smoothly..a balance of talking, imagery and humanity made this one my book of the week, beating out the almighty ultimate spider-man...

As much as you enjoyed it, I think your enjoyment will increase a thousand percent once you read the first 3 issues.

 

[The Captain]

Forsooth

As much as you enjoyed it, I think your enjoyment will increase a thousand percent once you read the first 3 issues.

Ill have to read them...eventually.....the premise of thors background was something ive wanted to know waaaay back when i opted not to buy ultimates # 1 (vol 1) upon its release.....he looked so freaking cool and not like a tool as he does in 616...

the premise of the trial of the hulk did not appeal to me in anyway whatsoever, but ill have to read them....at this point i doubt they will be as good as #4, but im keeping an open mind..

So....Who thinks Thor can take the whole team??? i doubt it, but it would be awesome to see...id like to see mjolnir strike caps shield, or even hit him with it....i dont know...cap just seems like stone cold steve austin in a costume and with less no profanity/beer/wife beating....in this issue he sorta came off like a jerk to me...but that i dont mean that in a really bad way either...more like a dark knight returns meets captain america, and my vision of cap is stars and stripes 1940s era....this millar cap is a post 80s cap that is about kicking butt and taking names..

 

[Fredrik Martinsson]

Am I the only one that REEEEAAAALLY wanna see the whole European Super Soldiers team in action (most Captain Sweden of course (I'm Swedish by the way :wink: ))?

 

[jtg3885]

Erm... the other super soldiers aren't ready for deployment. I believe it's only Captain Britain, Spain, Italy, and France, if that. So the rest of the countries are sitting this out, as far as I can see.

 

[DIrishB]

Originally posted by Bass:

Oh, and one more thing: Thor as Jesus Christ parallel #732: I wouldn't be surprised if the forest that Thor is waiting in is called "Gethesemane".

For those who don't know, Jesus, knowing that he's about to condemned and crucified is in Gethsemane. A garden. And he prays to God to spare him the crucifixtion. But Jesus waits at Gethsemane, knowing he will be captured, tortured and killed.

Yeah, I saw that part of "The Passion of the Christ" also. Good movie. Wasn't it based on a book or something? Anyone know what it was called?

WINK WINK

 

[DIrishB]

I think Thor could own the entire team if he wanted. He stood toe to toe with Hulk, something none of the others could even dream of doing (Iron Man lasted maybe a minute). I think Thor will hold his own at the beginning. I like MWoF theory that he'll willingly give up, to further the Christ parallel. Cap and the others could be paralleled as a Roman soldiers, doing the bidding of the Jewish priests (Fury/SHEILD/Loki) who fear Christ's (Thor's) power. This title is getting VERY interesting.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

My cousin is into comics. He's my age he peeks at the site once in awhile (everyone say hi to Chael) but he's too "cool" to join a comic forum...

Anyway I let him read "The Sentry" and then I was talking about The Ultimates. He asked me something interesting. Is the Euro Ultimates expendable characters like those foreign heroes that got killed by the Void in "The Sentry"... what do you think? Any parallels care?

 

[jtg3885]

I don't think they'd introduce characters just to kill them off. Combine that with Thor's dislike of the death penalty, and I doubt that they'll be pushing up daisies at the end of the arc. Might be in full-body casts, but hey, they're coming after him. Self-defense.

 

[Fredrik Martinsson]

Erm... the other super soldiers aren't ready for deployment. I believe it's only Captain Britain, Spain, Italy, and France, if that. So the rest of the countries are sitting this out, as far as I can see.

I understood that. I just meant in a future arc.