The strike is OVER. The S is O!!

[moonmaster]

Re: The strike is on

Well, in the link I provided last page I think said that animated shows were safe because scripts are done way ahead of time. Maybe this is true to South Park, too?

Yeah, but like I said, South Park isn't a typical animated show. The animation is all done on computers and the whole process of making an episode only takes a few weeks. That's why the show has been able to be so timely and relevant in the past.

 

[Ice]

Re: The strike is on

Yeah, but like I said, South Park isn't a typical animated show. The animation is all done on computers and the whole process of making an episode only takes a few weeks. That's why the show has been able to be so timely and relevant in the past.

But if that's all you're worried about, then fret no more. It's only if scripts aren't done entirely for shows that's the actual problem.

If SP has all the scripts they need for the season completed, then the show is safe.

 

[Dancanread]

Re: The strike is on

I didn't think it was because it was fair , Just they agreed it so they need to shut the **** up and just do it. No strikes.






And I understand that but it is a part of life. Is it unfair? Yes. I'm just 100% against the strike. They earned their money , They got more than enough for what they did.

Again I mention doctors and cops. Can a Doctor say "hey I cured that man's cancer , It's not come back now for 5 years I think I should get paid for every year he is alive and if he has kids then I want money for each year they are alive as I saved their father and with out him they wouldn't be borne. I'm not getting it , let's strike"


come on. If you can strike from your job then it's not that important in the first place. I used doctors and cops an example because imagine say for 2 weeks you couldn't get arrested or cured/healed no matter what if they strike. Yeah never going to happen as it's too important.

I live in NY where the transit workers went on strike for more than a week two years ago. The city came to a standstill. I, as well as thousands of others, were unable to get to work. Ambulances had trouble getting to hospitals in a timely fashion due to the glut of auto traffic created. Here, at least, the subways and buses are vitally important.

But that's beside the point. So, you're saying if you have no other recourse to get what you believe is right, do nothing? Just roll over and allow yourself to be exploited? Look, no one is saying that tv and movie writers are curing cancer here. But they have every right to ask for what they deserve. Let's say you write something. You have 100% control over it's creation (unlike your doctor, who is only tertiarilly involved in the birth of his patient's children). You give it to a producer. He says thank you very much, here's your one shot price of $10,000. A fair price, yes, and not very small. The producer then goes and makes 10 million dollars every year for the rest of his life off of your creation. You would be okay with that? You don't value yourself and your contribution enough to fight for what you deserve? You believe that when you take on a job, you should just blindly accept whatever circumstances, forseen or unforseen, are thrown at you by your superiors who don't give a crap about you?

 

[Random]

Re: The strike is on

I live in NY where the transit workers went on strike for more than a week two years ago. The city came to a standstill. I, as well as thousands of others, were unable to get to work. Ambulances had trouble getting to hospitals in a timely fashion due to the glut of auto traffic created. Here, at least, the subways and buses are vitally important.

In Philly I would constantly hear about possible strike in our transit

But that's beside the point. So, you're saying if you have no other recourse to get what you believe is right, do nothing? Just roll over and allow yourself to be exploited? Look, no one is saying that tv and movie writers are curing cancer here. But they have every right to ask for what they deserve. Let's say you write something. You have 100% control over it's creation (unlike your doctor, who is only tertiarilly involved in the birth of his patient's children). You give it to a producer. He says thank you very much, here's your one shot price of $10,000. A fair price, yes, and not very small. The producer then goes and makes 10 million dollars every year for the rest of his life off of your creation. You would be okay with that? You don't value yourself and your contribution enough to fight for what you deserve? You believe that when you take on a job, you should just blindly accept whatever circumstances, forseen or unforseen, are thrown at you by your superiors who don't give a crap about you?

Which is why I hate Producers

 

[SSJmole]

Re: The strike is on

But that's beside the point. So, you're saying if you have no other recourse to get what you believe is right, do nothing? Just roll over and allow yourself to be exploited? Look, no one is saying that tv and movie writers are curing cancer here. But they have every right to ask for what they deserve. Let's say you write something. You have 100% control over it's creation (unlike your doctor, who is only tertiarilly involved in the birth of his patient's children). You give it to a producer. He says thank you very much, here's your one shot price of $10,000. A fair price, yes, and not very small. The producer then goes and makes 10 million dollars every year for the rest of his life off of your creation. You would be okay with that? You don't value yourself and your contribution enough to fight for what you deserve? You believe that when you take on a job, you should just blindly accept whatever circumstances, forseen or unforseen, are thrown at you by your superiors who don't give a crap about you?

Actually yes I would accept it , Sorry dude but I would. Would I be happy about it? Probably not. BUT I agreed to it so I wouldn't say no. I do get where you and the others are coming from.

I disagree with it BUT I understand it. And honestly in that case that you mentioned I would also be happy that my work was been enjoyed enough to make that money. Sure it sucks they get more but oh well.


I'm really not trying to turn this in to a huge debate here people I was just stating what I think of this whole thing.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: The strike is on

As someone who aspires to write for television and film one day, everything you're saying in regards to this argument is making my brain hurt.

But hey! Everyone's entitled to their own oppinions.

And Houde, in general, I agree about the state of unions in this day and age (in a very very general sense, Unions might have become corrupt here in the US, but they would solve a whole lot of problems worldwide if corporations didn't keep shutting them down to keep workers on minimum wage), but the entertainment guilds and unions really do make sure that you're not screwed over by the entertainment conglomerates... Particularly so they can't shove writers off shows they created and whatnot.

We'll all see what happens, but with the way things are going, I am betting that it'll only take a month at the most for the companies to cave in... They CAN afford what they're asking for (which is a fair thing to ask for. the current state of things is rediculous, particularly about the DVD stuff), while they can't afford not to run primetime television for months and months.

 

[Lynx]

Re: The strike is on

Actually yes I would accept it , Sorry dude but I would. Would I be happy about it? Probably not. BUT I agreed to it so I wouldn't say no. I do get where you and the others are coming from.

I disagree with it BUT I understand it. And honestly in that case that you mentioned I would also be happy that my work was been enjoyed enough to make that money. Sure it sucks they get more but oh well.


I'm really not trying to turn this in to a huge debate here people I was just stating what I think of this whole thing.

I find that very hard to believe.

And, even if it's true, I would think VERY few people would agree with you.

 

[E]

I find that very hard to believe.

And, even if it's true, I would think VERY few people would agree with you.

I agree with him.

In fact, it's what ALL of us do if you think about it.

I am a graphic designer. I get paid a wage, and my employer marks it up 400% and resells it. All of us do it. It's a fact of life. It doesn't matter if you're writing a TV show or flipping burgers.

And the writers can argue that there is more creative process than flipping burgers, but that really doesn't have anything to do with it. And is it that much more than me creating a web page? No.

I live in NY where the transit workers went on strike for more than a week two years ago. The city came to a standstill. I, as well as thousands of others, were unable to get to work. Ambulances had trouble getting to hospitals in a timely fashion due to the glut of auto traffic created. Here, at least, the subways and buses are vitally important.

But that's beside the point.

That's not at all beside the point. In fact it brings up another excellent point. How many camera operators, costume designers, etc are going to be out of work - perhaps many of them unpaid - because of this?

Like I said - greed and shortsightedness. Only caring about themselves.

 

[Iceshadow]

Re: The strike is on

I have to support the writers in this situation, but damn does it suck.

Heroes wrapping up early, new shows probably getting canceled entirely.

One thing I'd like to know is if the new season of South Park is going to continue. Unlike traditional animated shows, the complete process behind an episode of South Park is about 1-2 weeks. Meaning that, unless they've got a few scripts written, they're gonna run out of episodes very fast.

Yeah, but like I said, South Park isn't a typical animated show. The animation is all done on computers and the whole process of making an episode only takes a few weeks. That's why the show has been able to be so timely and relevant in the past.

Actually, South Park could be fairly safe since Trey and Matt do the majority of the work, but I don't know the details of their contract. In any case this season is probably already done.

Also, I believe that the fastest they ever did an episode was in 3 days.

 

[moonmaster]

Re: The strike is on

Actually, South Park could be fairly safe since Trey and Matt do the majority of the work, but I don't know the details of their contract. In any case this season is probably already done.

Also, I believe that the fastest they ever did an episode was in 3 days.

But are Trey and Matt in the Writer's Guild?

I'd be willing to bet that they are.

 

[Iceshadow]

Re: The strike is on

But are Trey and Matt in the Writer's Guild?

I'd be willing to bet that they are.

Don't know, most likely. What would happen if they didn't strike I wonder?

 

[mulesandmud]

Re: The strike is on

Like I said - greed and shortsightedness. Only caring about themselves.

Bear in mind, though, that we're talking about greed and self-interest within an industry founded on those exact principles, so it's very much a case of fire fighting fire. There's no high ground in this territory.

Union lameness is well documented, as is corporate lameness, but there's no use comparing wage labor, creative or not, with creative rights - the last 25 years of copyright law have made it very clear that the two are totally distinct issues. The guilds want their new contracts to reflect modern legal conceptions of their degree of ownership, and the studios just need a little while to get used to the idea.

The underlying issue here is that entertainment industry writers are still seeking a level of creative respect comparable to directors and producers (the kind of respect that writers get in the theatre world, or the comics world), and not so coincidentally, respect in the biz is measured in dollars. Whether they deserve it or not is a longstanding argument, as is the question of whether any of these people deserve to be earning the GDP of botswana for what they do.

Meanwhile, for all of you poor fools with screenplays collecting dust in the bottom drawer of your desks, dust'em off and send'em in - development types will be sweating bullets any day now.

 

[Ice]

Re: The strike is on

Warren Ellis via Bad Signal:


The WGA go out on strike today. If you're in LA, give 'em a wave ifyou see them on picket. Regardless of what you might think oftheir negotiating team and tactics, the WGA are making a stand oversome things that genuinely matter.

And, yes, they did amend their strike rules over animation.

 

[Bass]

Re: The strike is on

Now this is getting into a whole other thing. I don't think that's a very good argument at all. If Joe Blow can't find other work, he should be grateful for ANY job he gets. It's how the market works; if there are more people than there are jobs, the jobs will pay less.

And besides that, if Joe Blow can't find a job that pays what he needs, he needs to look for a different type of job.

They do. A lot of writers (and actors, artists, etc) hold down more than one job because the only contracts available for their chosen field are so completely ****ty.

They take the job that pays **** because they can do the job they want to do - and to finance it, they take another job.

When an employer giving you a ****ty contract tries to make it even more worthless, it's a problem.

You have to remember that the job contracts expired and so they're trying to renegotiate a new contract that gives them a small increase on DVD sales, whereas the producers want to eliminate their earnings.

Writers wan't to get more on royalties on DVD sales than they have been - and what they want is STILL a smaller percentage than what novelists get on books.

The executives want them to get NO residuals, a one-time fee and that's it.

Just as you're against strikers for trying to increase their wage through strike actions, the executives are trying to reduce their wage through litigation.

I didn't think it was because it was fair , Just they agreed it so they need to shut the **** up and just do it. No strikes.

And I understand that but it is a part of life. Is it unfair? Yes. I'm just 100% against the strike. They earned their money , They got more than enough for what they did.

Again I mention doctors and cops. Can a Doctor say "hey I cured that man's cancer , It's not come back now for 5 years I think I should get paid for every year he is alive and if he has kids then I want money for each year they are alive as I saved their father and with out him they wouldn't be borne. I'm not getting it , let's strike"

That's not entirely accurate.

It would be more accurate to have your same Doctor say, "Hey I cured cancer using the patented Moleification method. Every time someone cures cancer with it, I should get paid. If I don't, I'm going on strike."

But it would be even more accurate to have the Doctor say, "Hey, I cured cancer using the patented Moleification method that I invented 20 years ago. I've been earning a small residual every time someone uses that method and that's been a lot. Hey, I've not earned nearly as much as the hospital's owner, but I'm doing okay. However, it's now time to renegotiate my contract and I'd like a little more. Not a huge amount, not the same as policemen get for using the Bassiant restrainment method, but a little increase... what's this? My new contract is saying I don't get any residuals because people now use Randominum scalpels instead of the same stainless steel scalpels I used to patent the method 20 years ago?"

Really look at this situation. The doctor doesn't demand a wage increase then strikes because he doesn't get it. The doctor demands a wage increase then is told he's getting less money because they changed the name of a tool he uses.

The strike, according to what I've read, is about that - The writers do want more money - but what they want is still less than what novelists get for books; it's not an unreasonable amount at all, but they're striking because the executives are trying to pay them less - NOT because the executives won't pay them more.

come on. If you can strike from your job then it's not that important in the first place. I used doctors and cops an example because imagine say for 2 weeks you couldn't get arrested or cured/healed no matter what if they strike. Yeah never going to happen as it's too important.

Exactly.

I agree with you - I think striking is stupid. I don't think it's a particularly good form of getting what you want, especially since it got neutered. When strikes first happened, they were illegal, violent, and terrifying. Now that they're legal and all polite and such, I feel their effectiveness is less yet they're still as annoying.

That said - I also think murder is a despicable act. But I can understand someone coming home and cutting the head off a guy who's raping their six-year old daughter.

In principle - striking is a bad thing. But the world is never in such absolutes. Just as you can have justifiable homicide, there can be times where strikes can be justifiable. Yes, it's a shame that the situation has eroded to such a point where someone has to kill/strike, but sometimes it's the best course of action.

Also "MOLE'S WONDER PARK" would be the best movie ever

I think it would be. It would be PAN'S LABYRINTH + WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY.

I find that very hard to believe.

And, even if it's true, I would think VERY few people would agree with you.

The WGA strike went through on a 90% approval vote - which is completely unheard of. It's never been that high. It's possible people are more sheep like than before (or greedy or what-have-you) or it could be that maybe this strike really needs to happen. I dunno.

What is interesting is that 10% of the WGA didn't go for it. So that 10% - some agree with Mole and E; striking is bad no matter what you do and contracts shouldn't be renegotiated. Some writers, maybe finally getting their pet tv show produced see the strike as the possible death knell for their show and do not want their show to stop for any reason (maybe the actors are only available for a short window or something).

But 10% agree. And that is VERY few in the WGA. So I guess everyone is right!

 

[Hibiki]

Re: The strike is on

I wonder if this means Ultimate hulk vs. wolverine will finally be finished. Also, does this means Young Avengers will start it's second season?

 

[Ice]

Re: The strike is on

I wonder if this means Ultimate hulk vs. wolverine will finally be finished.

:lol:

Give it up to Hibiki! She'll be here all week!

 

[Bass]

Re: The strike is on

:lol: Probably... maybe for the big two, the strike is the bestest thing ever.

You always have the cutest avatars.

 

[Hibiki]

Re: The strike is on

:lol:

Give it up to Hibiki! She'll be here all week!

*bows*

:lol: Probably... maybe for the big two, the strike is the bestest thing ever.

You always have the cutest avatars.

ahh there is hope!

 

[Ice]

Re: The strike is on

Probably... maybe for the big two, the strike is the bestest thing ever.

Guggenheim certainly thinks so. And I agree with him.

More time to work on comic projects, but that doesn't mean to take on new ones.

 

[Dancanread]

Re: The strike is on

I am a graphic designer. I get paid a wage, and my employer marks it up 400% and resells it. All of us do it. It's a fact of life. It doesn't matter if you're writing a TV show or flipping burgers.

And the writers can argue that there is more creative process than flipping burgers, but that really doesn't have anything to do with it. And is it that much more than me creating a web page? No.

It does have something to do with it. Creative writing is a much harder, more specialized skill than flipping burgers. These people are at the top of their field. Let's say you designed a new web page for a new app for Google. It's wildly popular and gets them millions more in traffic and as a result more ad revenue. Would you accept the same pay as if you designed a page for a pizza store in Queens?

That's not at all beside the point. In fact it brings up another excellent point. How many camera operators, costume designers, etc are going to be out of work - perhaps many of them unpaid - because of this?

Like I said - greed and shortsightedness. Only caring about themselves.

You're right. All these people are unfortunately out of work. Including actors like myself. And all our respective unions and members are unanimously in full support of the work stoppage, because we are all in the business together and we respect each other's contributions and we understand the need to have each other's help.