Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
I still think my suggestion is genius!
I still think my suggestion is genius!
The [irrational & annoying] price of comics.
- Thread starter Ice
- Start date
-
- Tags
- comic prices
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Just to put it out there, as a colorist I've made about $50/page. If i decide to go into pencilling, I'll make about $80/page, and including thumbnails, ink-able pencils, and inevitable editorial revisions, I'm looking at 6-8 hours o work, per page. So, I'd be making about; $10-12/hour, which is quite a bit less than I make doing prepress work (which is fully grunt work at a print shop. Master designers make in the vicinity of $76,000 annually). Granted, people like Greg Land, JH Williams III, Jim Lee, etc make considerably more, but the average for pencillers is only about $125/pg. Inkers make considerably less, last I heard, about $50 - 75/pg, Colorists only make about $50/pg, and they have to eventually share that with "flatters" who do the fill work.
With 24 pages as the average content length of a comic. We're looking at a total unit cost of;
$7500 on the creator costs,
publishing costs are about $6 per unit with an average print run of 100,000 units (the big companies get sweet publishing deals, if you are a small company [less than 100,000 units per order] you're looking at $11 per unit)
Advertising/licensing costs, this is remarkably negligible, making a few thousand promotional posters, ashcans, etc is only about $.50 per title.
When all is said and done, comics cost about $19 a unit to produce. So licensing out their characters to clothing, toys, memorabilia, TV/Film, and taking on ads help pay for the costs, so they can pull a profit.
As to quality, the problem, especially at Marvel is the nepotism. Guys like Land and Hitch, who openly trace, get a pass when people call them on it because they're besties with Quesada and Bendis. So they pay out the ass to those guys, and that leads them to have less to pay for quality on other books. So then they turn to the Brazilian and Filipino art factories.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to clear up some misconceptions when it comes to comic book prices.
Just to put it out there, as a colorist I've made about $50/page. If i decide to go into pencilling, I'll make about $80/page, and including thumbnails, ink-able pencils, and inevitable editorial revisions, I'm looking at 6-8 hours o work, per page. So, I'd be making about; $10-12/hour, which is quite a bit less than I make doing prepress work (which is fully grunt work at a print shop. Master designers make in the vicinity of $76,000 annually). Granted, people like Greg Land, JH Williams III, Jim Lee, etc make considerably more, but the average for pencillers is only about $125/pg. Inkers make considerably less, last I heard, about $50 - 75/pg, Colorists only make about $50/pg, and they have to eventually share that with "flatters" who do the fill work.
With 24 pages as the average content length of a comic. We're looking at a total unit cost of;
$7500 on the creator costs,
publishing costs are about $6 per unit with an average print run of 100,000 units (the big companies get sweet publishing deals, if you are a small company [less than 100,000 units per order] you're looking at $11 per unit)
Advertising/licensing costs, this is remarkably negligible, making a few thousand promotional posters, ashcans, etc is only about $.50 per title.
When all is said and done, comics cost about $19 a unit to produce. So licensing out their characters to clothing, toys, memorabilia, TV/Film, and taking on ads help pay for the costs, so they can pull a profit.
As to quality, the problem, especially at Marvel is the nepotism. Guys like Land and Hitch, who openly trace, get a pass when people call them on it because they're besties with Quesada and Bendis. So they pay out the ass to those guys, and that leads them to have less to pay for quality on other books. So then they turn to the Brazilian and Filipino art factories.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to clear up some misconceptions when it comes to comic book prices.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
The solution is self-publication. and guess what! The digital market is making that a possible venue.
The solution is self-publication. and guess what! The digital market is making that a possible venue.
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
I don't understand the math here (i'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand what you're saying - I know nothing about the costs in the comic industry).
$7500 in creator costs divided by 100,000 comics is $0.075 per comic in creator costs. Plus publishing costs is $6.075 per comic. Does the advertising (which you said is negligible) make up the almost $13 per comic that's unaccounted for in the $19/comic figure? Or is there something else that I'm missing?
I don't understand the math here (i'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand what you're saying - I know nothing about the costs in the comic industry).
$7500 in creator costs divided by 100,000 comics is $0.075 per comic in creator costs. Plus publishing costs is $6.075 per comic. Does the advertising (which you said is negligible) make up the almost $13 per comic that's unaccounted for in the $19/comic figure? Or is there something else that I'm missing?
Last edited:
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Sorry, left out distribution costs. With shipping, storage, etc. being the most expensive of the actual process, the shipping being not just shipping the final product, but the shipping in of comic pages, etc. This also don't include the costs of the day to day running of a multinational company. If you figure that in, it's considerably higher.
Sorry, left out distribution costs. With shipping, storage, etc. being the most expensive of the actual process, the shipping being not just shipping the final product, but the shipping in of comic pages, etc. This also don't include the costs of the day to day running of a multinational company. If you figure that in, it's considerably higher.
Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Makes a lot of sense.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Makes a lot of sense.
JoeMD
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 19
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
I'd just like to note that I haven't read ALL of this thread, as it's long and I'm tired. :roll:
Anyway, for those of us not living in the US, this price rise is even more damaging. While US readers are only paying an extra dollar, for readers in Australia we are paying an extra $1.50-$4 depending on where you buy your comics. For example, my LCS charges $8.80 for a $3.99US title. While I know that is more expensive than other stores in Australia (the reason being that my LCS is a small, independently owned one and thus needs to charge more as it's got a smaller customer base) the next cheapest store - which is THREE HOURS away - charges $4.50AU for a $3.99US book. Other stores I've seen are in the middle of the two somewhere.
Now, of course you could say "well, you can just mail-order from the cheaper store." While that's true, I still need to pay shipping. Also, for reasons I go into HERE, I don't like to buy from a store that I don't know well. While that is purely personal preference, it is something that comes into the equation for me.
Given this, trade and HC collections are much more affordable for Australian readers when bought online. For example, the HC collection of Amazinf Spider-Man: Flying High is $14.15AU on BookDepository. If I bought each issue individually from the cheaper store, that would be a total of $27. The store itself would probably charge around $30-40 for the HC (based on others I've bought there that are similar).
I've no idea what importance intonational sales are to Marvel, but the message they are giving is "not much". So, as explained in the tumblr post I linked to above, I'm making the switch from floppies to collections. It's just silly not to do so in my situation.
Marvel - and DC - need to really look at their pricing or it's going to put them out of business.
I'd just like to note that I haven't read ALL of this thread, as it's long and I'm tired. :roll:
Anyway, for those of us not living in the US, this price rise is even more damaging. While US readers are only paying an extra dollar, for readers in Australia we are paying an extra $1.50-$4 depending on where you buy your comics. For example, my LCS charges $8.80 for a $3.99US title. While I know that is more expensive than other stores in Australia (the reason being that my LCS is a small, independently owned one and thus needs to charge more as it's got a smaller customer base) the next cheapest store - which is THREE HOURS away - charges $4.50AU for a $3.99US book. Other stores I've seen are in the middle of the two somewhere.
Now, of course you could say "well, you can just mail-order from the cheaper store." While that's true, I still need to pay shipping. Also, for reasons I go into HERE, I don't like to buy from a store that I don't know well. While that is purely personal preference, it is something that comes into the equation for me.
Given this, trade and HC collections are much more affordable for Australian readers when bought online. For example, the HC collection of Amazinf Spider-Man: Flying High is $14.15AU on BookDepository. If I bought each issue individually from the cheaper store, that would be a total of $27. The store itself would probably charge around $30-40 for the HC (based on others I've bought there that are similar).
I've no idea what importance intonational sales are to Marvel, but the message they are giving is "not much". So, as explained in the tumblr post I linked to above, I'm making the switch from floppies to collections. It's just silly not to do so in my situation.
Marvel - and DC - need to really look at their pricing or it's going to put them out of business.
Friday
Well-Known Member
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Well, I'd say they did and come up with 2 very different solutions. DC decided to cut 2 pages and, for the most part, stay at the $2.99 price point. Marvel on the other hand has moved the vast majority of their books to $3.99, but has also moved to a roughly 20 page standard. I think that this shows the fundementaly different philosophies in the companies. Marvel seems to think they have a set number of readers and are going to be albe to sell to them no matter what, hence the higher price point. DC seems to be set on making their product more acessable, hence the lower price point and projects with high media interest that don't involve falsely killing a major character.
Well, I'd say they did and come up with 2 very different solutions. DC decided to cut 2 pages and, for the most part, stay at the $2.99 price point. Marvel on the other hand has moved the vast majority of their books to $3.99, but has also moved to a roughly 20 page standard. I think that this shows the fundementaly different philosophies in the companies. Marvel seems to think they have a set number of readers and are going to be albe to sell to them no matter what, hence the higher price point. DC seems to be set on making their product more acessable, hence the lower price point and projects with high media interest that don't involve falsely killing a major character.
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Those prices are ridiculous.
And that won't change as long as the readership doesn't change. The readership won't change unless the prices do. They are idiots.
No one at Marvel seems to remember that this is exactly what happened in the 90s and it almost did put them out of business.
The thing is that back then they didn't really have movies to fall back on. Nowadays I think with Disney the comic publishing is pretty unimportant as long as they keep pumping out movies and TV shows (and related merchandise). I don't think they care how many people read the comics in the grand scheme of things; comic readers are a relatively small number and they can reach a lot more people with movies.
Exactly.
If only their stories were better (that is, better than they currently are, not better than Marvel per se).
DC seems to care more about long term sustainability. Marvel cares nothing for long term - you can see it in both their business practices and their writing.
The way Marvel openly and wantonly disregards their customers is astounding.
Those prices are ridiculous.
And that won't change as long as the readership doesn't change. The readership won't change unless the prices do. They are idiots.
No one at Marvel seems to remember that this is exactly what happened in the 90s and it almost did put them out of business.
The thing is that back then they didn't really have movies to fall back on. Nowadays I think with Disney the comic publishing is pretty unimportant as long as they keep pumping out movies and TV shows (and related merchandise). I don't think they care how many people read the comics in the grand scheme of things; comic readers are a relatively small number and they can reach a lot more people with movies.
Exactly.
If only their stories were better (that is, better than they currently are, not better than Marvel per se).
DC seems to care more about long term sustainability. Marvel cares nothing for long term - you can see it in both their business practices and their writing.
The way Marvel openly and wantonly disregards their customers is astounding.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
The readership won't change until they start legitimately targeting new readers with new types of stories, advertised in new markets.
Pricing won't change until they recognize that the direct market isn't a sustainable profit model and pursue a lower-cost digital model more aggressively.
In the meantime, fresh young artists will recognize that the necessity of a publisher is increasingly negligible, and pursue a market where creative talent is the only barrier to entry.
The readership won't change until they start legitimately targeting new readers with new types of stories, advertised in new markets.
Pricing won't change until they recognize that the direct market isn't a sustainable profit model and pursue a lower-cost digital model more aggressively.
In the meantime, fresh young artists will recognize that the necessity of a publisher is increasingly negligible, and pursue a market where creative talent is the only barrier to entry.
Last edited:
JoeMD
Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 19
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
I really don't understand why Marvel/DC don't try to advertise in other avenues. If you've got a movie out of your leading characters, put a quick plug for the comics in before the film. Something like 'Love the movie? Get the whole story at your local comics store!" Something like that. Advertise n magazines, newspapers, others. And try other kinds of books when you do it. Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane was a brilliant title (well, the first two series anyway) but Marvel advertised it to comics readers. That is NOT the audience you need to go after with a book like that. Pu an add in the pages of Dolly or Girlfriend (tween books here in Australia) or similar. I'm not a business man, but Marvel, and DC to a lesser extent, seem to have things backwards. They advertise to those who already buy their product, not the people that they need to pull into stores.
This really makes me sad, but I think you're right. If it wasn't for the comics they'd have no frakking movies to begin with! As much as I've enjoyed the films I really hate that it's at the expense of the source material. The amount of kids who now think that there was only ever Mary Jane and that they are 'changing things' by having Gwen as Peter's girl in the new Spidey film is horrible. I'd prefer them to be ignorant than to be wrong. I think that they REALLY need to set up the comics and movies as separate entities. We all know the films don't bring new readers in, so why bother trying to have the comics reflect the films?
I really don't understand why Marvel/DC don't try to advertise in other avenues. If you've got a movie out of your leading characters, put a quick plug for the comics in before the film. Something like 'Love the movie? Get the whole story at your local comics store!" Something like that. Advertise n magazines, newspapers, others. And try other kinds of books when you do it. Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane was a brilliant title (well, the first two series anyway) but Marvel advertised it to comics readers. That is NOT the audience you need to go after with a book like that. Pu an add in the pages of Dolly or Girlfriend (tween books here in Australia) or similar. I'm not a business man, but Marvel, and DC to a lesser extent, seem to have things backwards. They advertise to those who already buy their product, not the people that they need to pull into stores.
This really makes me sad, but I think you're right. If it wasn't for the comics they'd have no frakking movies to begin with! As much as I've enjoyed the films I really hate that it's at the expense of the source material. The amount of kids who now think that there was only ever Mary Jane and that they are 'changing things' by having Gwen as Peter's girl in the new Spidey film is horrible. I'd prefer them to be ignorant than to be wrong. I think that they REALLY need to set up the comics and movies as separate entities. We all know the films don't bring new readers in, so why bother trying to have the comics reflect the films?
Last edited:
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Hell, put a code to redeem for a few free digital comics with each movie ticket, and DVD or video game case. There's no publishing cost and if it's a new reader, they wouldn't be buying comics anyway, so there's no sunk cost.
Hell, put a code to redeem for a few free digital comics with each movie ticket, and DVD or video game case. There's no publishing cost and if it's a new reader, they wouldn't be buying comics anyway, so there's no sunk cost.
Last edited:
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Yeah, this is a great idea. It would reach more people than the comics they give away free on Wednesdays in the Marvel app.
Yeah, this is a great idea. It would reach more people than the comics they give away free on Wednesdays in the Marvel app.
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Marvel SVP David Gabriel to ComicVine:
His wording is interesting there for what he doesn't say vs. what words he chose. To me, that could easily read as "we lost an acceptable number of sales". His statement is not in any way positive.
Such a slippery slope. Keep pushing until it breaks.
Marvel SVP David Gabriel to ComicVine:
His wording is interesting there for what he doesn't say vs. what words he chose. To me, that could easily read as "we lost an acceptable number of sales". His statement is not in any way positive.
Such a slippery slope. Keep pushing until it breaks.
Friday
Well-Known Member
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
So he's saying $3.99 for 20 pages is fine? 'Cuz it's totally not.
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
WHOA - are they seriously charging $3.99 for 20 pages?! I thought all of the $3.99 books had bonus material and were more like 32 or 34 or whatever that next highest level is.
WHOA - are they seriously charging $3.99 for 20 pages?! I thought all of the $3.99 books had bonus material and were more like 32 or 34 or whatever that next highest level is.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Re: The [apparently decreasing] price of comics.
Does the "Previously" or letters pages count?
Because for example, Ultimate Spider-Man is 20 pages of actual story. The rest is ads and those two pages.
Also, Wolverine & The X-Men is also at $3.99 and there was 20 pages of story (plus the previously page, but not letters page this time). There also has not been any bonus material since issue #1.
Does the "Previously" or letters pages count?
Because for example, Ultimate Spider-Man is 20 pages of actual story. The rest is ads and those two pages.
Also, Wolverine & The X-Men is also at $3.99 and there was 20 pages of story (plus the previously page, but not letters page this time). There also has not been any bonus material since issue #1.
Last edited:
