The Amazing Spider-Man (Spoilery discussion)

[mike3717]

I would rather Tobey Maguire get cast as Ben Reilly.

I'd rather they just ignore that whole line of thinking period. Did they say that line tho or am I just not remembering correctly? Because I honestly remember the line "do you think you are an accident?" from previews but not the movie. So if that got axed from the movie perhaps they are dropping that whole direction.

 

[ProjectX2]

The Lizard reminded me of this:

 

[Captain Canuck]

Obviously I'm a huge Spider-Man fan. I knew going into this that I was going to either like this movie more than most people or hate it more than most people. I'm glad I landed on the positive side. That said, I think most of the complaints people have come from expecting it to be like dark knight or avengers. I'm glad it wasn't like those movies b/c, as much as I loved both of them, they weren't the kind of movie a Spider-Man movie needs to be. This movie was about Peter and Gwen. Lizard provided some conflict and action, but he wasn't the story, Peter and Gwen were.

I realize this is my opinion and everyone is equally entitled to their own opinion, but as I see it, that is the dividing issue: did you want a movie that captured the coming of age, romance/melodrama that Spider-Man is, or did you want a popcorn action flick/The Dark Knight as Spider-Man?

(that came off as way more pretentious than I meant...)

It DOES feel incomplete. It makes no sense whatsoever that he shouldn't find the guy that killed Ben. None. There was too much left dangling pointing to a sequel. Maybe it's just me, but the first movie should feel complete. Maybe there are a few questions, but nothing so blatantly unresolved as the killer still on the run or whatever they are going to make happen with Peter's parents.

But the search for the killer was part of his development as a hero. Captain Stacy says to Peter that Spider-Man isn't trying to help, he has some agenda of his own...and he's right. After that he starts focusing on the lizard because he's responsible for him. Having the killer plot tied off wasn't as important for Peter's story as realizing his motivations weren't as pure as he thought.

Too much of this felt like a bad 90s superhero movie. We're supposed to be getting away from this kind of stuff. Gas clouds? A guy who hates humanity so he wants to turn them all into lizards? It's pretty dumb. They don't have to make movies with plot points like that any more. We've moved past that. When the gas cloud went off I just felt...defeated. It's Magneto's magnet transforming thing from X-Men all over again. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO STUFF LIKE THAT ANYMORE, GUYS. WE KNOW BETTER NOW.

Is the gas cloud a worse plot point than an invasion by generic aliens? The lizard wants to turn the world into lizards like him because he thinks people are weak. That's just what he does. Sure, he's not the joker, but if he was the movie would be about him instead of Peter and Gwen, and that would have been worse.

Another thing that really bugged me - between the time that the evacuation of the city is ordered and Peter returns home from saving the city, we see NOTHING of Aunt May. Are we led to believe that in the entire time the ENTIRE CITY OF NEW YORK is evacuating (think of what a huge deal that is) she's just sitting in her kitchen making spaghetti & meatballs? She's not looking for or even calling Peter?

They didn't evacuate the whole city, just several blocks of midtown. Peter Parker and Aunt May live in Queens. And yeah, she definitely knows he's Spider-Man. I kind of like that they alluded to it without spelling it out,

Also - the web shooters. I'm an organic web shooters guy. I prefer them. But the movie would have in no way been ruined by mechanical web shooters. Now, the argument I've always heard against organic web shooters is that it shows Peter's ingenuity. I get that...I don't think it's completely necessary but I certainly get the argument. But while he did invent the shooters themselves, he didn't even invent the webs! He just stole them! That just seems so out of character to me.

That part was a little weird. Did he steal the web cartridges or order them? They didn't really address that. But I'm glad he has web shooters.

 

[Ice]

It seemed like he ordered the web shooters because they came in an addressed package.

 

[ProjectX2]

I realize this is my opinion and everyone is equally entitled to their own opinion, but as I see it, that is the dividing issue: did you want a movie that captured the coming of age, romance/melodrama that Spider-Man is, or did you want a popcorn action flick/The Dark Knight as Spider-Man?

I just wanted a good movie. I could never settle for something so mediocre just because "it's Spider-Man."

 

[the watcher]

I am wondering if Peter's father had experimented on Peter as a child and that explains it. (more of "the untold story" perhaps) Wasn't there a line where Lizard/Conners asks Peter if he thinks he (Peter) is an accident? I seem to remember that line from previews but I don't remember it in the actual movie.

Yeah, I think a lot of sceens end up on the cutting room floor. Or they're saving them for a special Director's Cut.

 

[Friday]

Yikes. I really liked Emma Stone and mostly liked Andrew Garfield but the rest... yikes. The whole movie feels incomplete - you can tell just by watching the 100 trailers they released that a lot has been cut out of the movie. What happened to all the stuff about his father? What about the Indian guy? Was there supposed to be a scene with the lizard SWAT team? What about the "Untold Story"? Something has obviously happened behind the scenes, which has resulted in the movie being quite a mess.

I thought it was strange how they almost went out of their way to try to not repeat bits from the first movie. The "with great power comes great responsibility" line is an example of this - what did he actually say in this movie? "Your father said that if you have great power then it is a moral obligation to be responsible with it." Why not just use the line? It would be so much simpler.

The Lizard was a terrible villain. He's never been particularly great in the comics but I thought with three writers writing this movie they could have given him a bit more development. Curt Connors wants to grow a new arm, tests the serum on himself because he's desperate, turns into a giant lizard monster, becomes crazy (as you do), decides to turn everyone into giant lizard monsters. Rubbish. The whole gas cloud thing at the end makes it seem like this movie should have come out immediately after Batman Begins - but no, it's coming out after The Dark Knight and a couple of weeks before The Dark Knight Rises, which means it should have had a better written villain. You shouldn't be allowed to have villains this **** after the Joker.

There was a lot of stuff that just rubbed me the wrong way: not only is Peter relatively normal, but he's actually kind of cool? Why would he be being bullied in the first place? He even skateboards! And what was with the bizarre skateboarding montage set to Coldplay? Why doesn't Peter find Uncle Ben's killer? That's a strange thing to leave unresolved. I also don't get people preferring these versions of Aunt May and Uncle Ben - May in particular felt like she was barely in it and I thought Ben's death in the original was much more dramatic. I don't want to keep comparing this movie to the originals but it's kind of hard not to, especially when so much of them have been rehashed in this one. "The Untold Story" didn't really offer anything new and what little it did was either boring or unnecessary.

I'm really surprised to see so many people say that not only is this movie better than the entire original trilogy but that it's also one of the best comic book movies ever made. The version of Amazing Spider-Man I saw was so half-assed and so forgettable that I just don't understand what everyone else is seeing in this movie. The original trilogy certainly has its flaws (the third is almost nothing but) but I think those first two Spider-Man movies are still the closest we have come to the perfect Spider-Man movie. If someone doesn't know anything about Spider-Man, I'm going to show them those before I show them this.

But man... Gwen Stacy is the best. One movie of Emma Stone is better than three movies of Kirsten Dunst. I am so glad the Lizard didn't use her as bait. I think I would have walked out of the cinema. I want a Gwen Stacy movie. **** Spider-Man.

EDIT: I meant to give it two stars, not three. This is Spider-Man's fault.

This. A thousand times this.

 

[Captain Canuck]

I just wanted a good movie. I could never settle for something so mediocre just because "it's Spider-Man."

I thought is was a good movie, a really good movie !

I'm not even going to comment on that crane scene, but did anyone else notice the distractingly loud piano notes during the part where Gwen is hiding from the Lizard in that closet in Oscorp?

Yes, to both of those things! I rolled my eyes at the crane scene, especially when he falls but the dad of the kid from the car catches him.

And when the lizard was looking for Gwen, I was thinking, "Did he just step on a piano?"

 

[ProjectX2]

This article discusses a bunch of scenes that were missing from the movie.

 

[mike3717]

It seemed like he ordered the web shooters because they came in an addressed package.

 

[mike3717]

This article discusses a bunch of scenes that were missing from the movie.

I knew I wasn't crazy and there was a bunch of stuff that was in previews but not in the movie. I didn't put it all together that it was the whole "untold story" plot thread that had been sloppily axed.

 

[Bass]

I'm agog at how these criticisms of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN are supposedly destructive to the film when I can think of more egregious examples:

"Lizard is a stupid villain who goes has for no reason" - Green Goblin and Doc Ock both went crazy due to science. Doc Ock wanted to destroy Manhattan too, and Green Goblin just wanted his company back. If Lizard is crappy, so are they.

"Everything is left unresolved" - The burglar plot is resolved; Spidey gets that hunting the burglar is an immature, self-gratifying waste of time and decides to be a hero, not out of guilt over his uncle's death, but because he matures and accepts his responsibility by actually doing something heroic: he saves a kid and "gets" it. The parents are resolved from Peter's point of view: they died in a plane crash. They left him to hide the secret of their formula which is terribly destructive. We know there's more but it's clear those answers are for a sequel not this film and they balance it carefully. Contrast this with THE AVENGERS which put the villain off-screen into the post-credit sequence. The whole film is a trailer for AVENGERS 2: THE THANOSING. But apparently, that's okay to leave unresolved, but not Spidey. What's the whole deal with the tesseract in CAPTAIN AMERICA? It's okay we know little because, hey, it'll be in THE AVENGERS (except it isn't) but Parker's parents can't be held for for a sequel?

Blech.

 

[mike3717]

I'm agog at your agogity.

 

[Bass]

I'm agog at your agogity.

I deleted my post because I can't be bothered to get into these discussions anymore.

 

[E]

I'm agog at your agogity.

Me too.

If Lizard is crappy, so are they.

Yep. Absolutely. No argument there.

"Everything is left unresolved" - The burglar plot is resolved; Spidey gets that hunting the burglar is an immature, self-gratifying waste of time and decides to be a hero, not out of guilt over his uncle's death, but because he matures and accepts his responsibility by actually doing something heroic: he saves a kid and "gets" it. The parents are resolved from Peter's point of view: they died in a plane crash. They left him to hide the secret of their formula which is terribly destructive. We know there's more but it's clear those answers are for a sequel not this film and they balance it carefully. Contrast this with THE AVENGERS which put the villain off-screen into the post-credit sequence. The whole film is a trailer for AVENGERS 2: THE THANOSING. But apparently, that's okay to leave unresolved, but not Spidey. What's the whole deal with the tesseract in CAPTAIN AMERICA? It's okay we know little because, hey, it'll be in THE AVENGERS (except it isn't) but Parker's parents can't be held for for a sequel?

Blech.

But it's not relevant at the time that Thanos is behind it. We are discovering that similar to how the characters might or will discover it. There is never a sense that there is something bigger than what is going on...Loki is bad and he's behind it, and that's all that matters. That there is a deeper level to it is inconsequential at this point.

That is completely different from that lack of closure for both Peter and the viewer of having the killer still on the loose. It's unsettling and not in a profound way. It's like they just forgot to close the story. Same thing with the "great power/great responsibility" line Proj referenced. It is completely baffling that it was left out! That's what Spider-Man is all about; that's his mantra and rallying call. And they just brushed it aside and never gave us that moment to identify with him when he realizes what that really means. It's vital to the story and they just didn't get it. It's like they forgot what the line was so they just paraphrased it.

I'm a little surprised at the comparison; I can't even grasp the concept of Amazing Spider-Man being as or more complete than Avengers. It's not even close.

 

[Bass]

The lesson of all this is that the comic board app does not delete posts.

 

[E]

The lesson of all this is that the comic board app does not delete posts.

Don't delete posts. I hate that. If you don't want to discuss further then fine, whatever. But don't delete posts just because you don't want to talk any more. Gah.

 

[Bass]

But it's not relevant at the time that Thanos is behind it. We are discovering that similar to how the characters might or will discover it. There is never a sense that there is something bigger than what is going on...Loki is bad and he's behind it, and that's all that matters. That there is a deeper level to it is inconsequential at this point.

Loki explains he has borrowed an army. The army's leaders tell him to do as he's told or else their master will be angry. Nick Fury talks about how there are multiple aliens out there and this turns out to be the point of the Avengers: to make every world know it. The tesseract is never explained in terms of its origin or purpose yet it's clearly tied to everything. At the end of the film, we're shown the villain is Thanos.

It is absolutely relevant that Thanos is behind the Chitauri. Everything you just asserted about THE AVENGERS I said is true of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. You're fine with THE AVENGERS doing it, but not THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN.

That is completely different from that lack of closure for both Peter and the viewer of having the killer still on the loose. It's unsettling and not in a profound way. It's like they just forgot to close the story. Same thing with the "great power/great responsibility" line Proj referenced. It is completely baffling that it was left out! That's what Spider-Man is all about; that's his mantra and rallying call. And they just brushed it aside and never gave us that moment to identify with him when he realizes what that really means. It's vital to the story and they just didn't get it. It's like they forgot what the line was so they just paraphrased it.

Peter Parker moves beyond the needs of catching the burglar. The burglar is a distraction to him. He thinks he's trying to do good but Captain Stacey points out he's just wasting his time and powers doing this. Parker drops the burglar because it's unimportant and it is. We know who the burglar is, Parker knows he could've prevented Ben's death, and he gets power and responsibility, so he doesn't need to spend his time hunting down one burglar for revenge when there's other people to save. Secondly, as for him not saying "Great power great responsibility", he doesn't need to say it. It doesn't need to be said. It's done. Webb and the rest replaced that line with, "I'm Spider-Man." That line, when he says that for the first time, encompasses everything you just said and what's more, is that Peter Parker puts it together for himself, he's not just told it, and he gets it. Thirdly, Ben is not the only mentor for him; Stacey teaches him the lesson too, but in an argument, rather than Ben's compassion. The meaning is absolutely clear. It's just not spelled out in the dialogue, instead it's lived through the story.

 

[Bass]

Don't delete posts. I hate that. If you don't want to discuss further then fine, whatever. But don't delete posts just because you don't want to talk any more. Gah.

I meant to delete the post before anyone saw it so there would be no discussion involving me.

 

[mike3717]

I meant to delete the post before anyone saw it so there would be no discussion involving me.

I was just being a smart a** cuz I love when people use words I have to google.