Superman Returns movie discussion *Spoilers*

[Planet-man]

I'd say 2/5. With so many 5 stars, I figured I might as well. What are you guys gonna rate a really great movie if this is a 5 star for you?

What I like : The details around the story. Many of the secondary characters were great. Lex Luthor was very entertaining. The piano scene for example, from the bad guy playing with the kid to him getting killed by the piano, was very good cinema. There was plenty of such small moments that made the movie reasonably entertaining for me.

What was Okay : Routh as Superman wasn't too bad. But he lacked charisma. That was hard, anyway. Superman hardly talks and when he does he has nothing interesting to say. You'd need an actor of great intensity and screen presence to compensate. Routh doesn't manage it but at least he does an honest job.

Kate Bosworth also did an okay job. Well, she looks way too young to be Lois Lane +5 years. And her interaction with Superman made me think Superman didn't show up for one date instead of disappearing for 5 years without even saying goodbye. But she was okay.

The kid was good.

What was Bad : Other have said it, I'll say it too ; we saw that Superman story before. At times it felt as much like a remake as it felt like a continuation.

Very little tension. Most of the action scenes were as exciting as watching me step on an ant. Weee. Superman is omnipotent as long as we don't Deus Ex Machina Kryptonite into the scene. I get it. Move on to a scene with Lex or Jimmy Olsen please. In Superman II he is fighting 3 other Kryptonian and there can be doubt that Superman can win this fight. That's what is needed to make an action sequence relevant : a physical challenge that is, well, a challenge. Superman never has that in this movie. He is omnipotent, then weak as a kitten, then omnipotent again. I don't see how someone could have been on the edge of his seat at any point in this movie.

Too heavy handed with the Jesus metaphor. We get it, really. We're not stupid. The imagery can be used a little more sparingly and the ensemble would look a little less pretentious.

---

Various gripes :

Does Lois Lane have superpowers? She seemed tougher to kill than Wolverine. She gets tossed around like a rag doll in the plane and walks away unhurt. She get her head slammed into a bronze statue by a big goons and doesn't even black out. In the boat scene where she is trying to escape she gets a heavy door brutally slammed directly on her head and she doesn't... well... die.

Oh, and she dives to pick up Superman, a 220 pound man, who was by then at over 10 meter of depth, and drag him to the surface. A feat that would have been hard enough for her fit looking fiancee. But for a 110 pound woman... Who smokes... You know, I think the grrl power movement should back off a little from action movies. Just a little.

You remember the way Superman deposed the plane in the stadium? That would have killed or seriously injured the people sitted near the tail of the plane. Seriously.

Speaking of the plane... Superman can fly near the speed of light, right? It's mentionned by a reporter explaining how he can be almost anywhere on the planet at will. And he can lift an island into space. So... When it looked like he could barely go faster than the falling plane, and when it looked like he was straining to tear the wing and then to stop the fall of the plane... That was for the viewer's sake, right? He could have instantly moved in front of the plane and didn't need to grimace while pushing against the nose of the plane. That was a mere fraction of his speed and strenght. He just did it to give us a show. Good boy.

Superman lost his powers moments after landing on the island. And there wasn't a lot kryptinite to be seen. But when it comes to lifting the island, that's okay. He kept his powers long enough to launch the island into space. Even with kryponite almost poking through his eye. Basically, even Kryptonite can't stop him if it allows him to pull a spectacular stunt and save the day. Good boy.

You suh, have nailed it! Good show old man, good show.:rockon:

And this is a minor gripe of my own but you've got to wonder just how many people or buildings were crushed when he carelessly tossed away the airplane wing after tearing it off.

Edit: Oh...wait, by "nailed it", I meant except for the Lex Luthor being entertaining thing. I was just constantly annnoyed by his presense. Campy Luthor sucks, no matter how evil his plan is in the long run.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

You suh, have nailed it! Good show old man, good show.:rockon:

Thanks.

Edit: Oh...wait, by "nailed it", I meant except for the Lex Luthor being entertaining thing. I was just constantly annnoyed by his presense. Campy Luthor sucks, no matter how evil his plan is in the long run.

Well, I don't read Superman so I'm not attached to one version of Luthor over another one. I was just happy for some comic relief. Like when Lex quietly stepped back from the boiling pool while his henchmen stood fascinated. I found that very funny.

But I guess he could have been better. I really don't know. I just know Hackman's Luthor and now Spacey's.

 

[Planet-man]

Well, I don't read Superman so I'm not attached to one version of Luthor over another one.

Neither do I but I'm a diehard fan of the Superman: The Animated Series/Justice League version of Luthor. John Shea's version on the Lois & Clark tv show was great also.

I was just happy for some comic relief. Like when Lex quietly stepped back from the boiling pool while his henchmen stood fascinated. I found that very funny.

Yeah, that was funny. But in a good, appropriate way, unlike when he was dancing around like an idiot in front of Lois Lane during the "WROOONNNGGG!!" scene.

And I was also dismayed to see that after all these years the greatest criminal mind of our time is still surrounding himself with utter nincompoops!

 

[moonmaster]

Saw it last night. I loved it.

It took awhile before I started to enjoy it, though. The opening sequence got me so excited, but after that things slowed way down. I was starting to feel that the movie was about to disappoint me. Thankfully, the plane sequence got me back into the movie. I noticed that things would occasionally drag. There were scenes where I started to get a little bored, but they were almost always followed by a scene that made me wonder how this movie could ever make me feel anything close to "bored".

I thought the plane sequence was spectacular. It could have been longer, though. I had read in early reports that it was 20-25 minutes long, so I was surprised that it ended so quickly.

I really enjoyed the scene where Lois and Superman fly together. Very well done.

I liked the climax of the movie, and I think people who say it didn't make any sense aren't paying attention. For one thing, the entire island was not made of kryptonite. It was sort of laced with kryptonite. Also, before Supes lifted the island, he flew high into the air and super-charged himself in the sun. And lastly, he didn't throw the island into space and then go out for a cocktail. He almost dies.

Routh did a great job. Superman is a man of few words. That's how it should be. If you don't like that, then maybe he isn't the character for you.

I liked Kate Bosworth. People seem to be forgetting that she's been a mom for five years. Five years of raising a child will definitely change a person. She's a little less spunky, and a lot less risky and that's the way things should be. People tend to change in real life. Why can't characters do the same?

Spacey was great as Luthor. Yeah, he can seem a little too comical, but he keeps on reminding you that behind all that he's really a mean son of a *****.

As for the rest of the cast: Marsden did fine, despite being a little bland. I'd say the same for Frank Langella. Jimmy was great and very entertaining. I also really liked Kitty and I hope they bring her back in the sequels. In some strange way, she reminded me of an alternate universe version of Marla Singer from Fight Club.

Jason was handled so much better than I thought he'd be. The piano scene was actually a great scene and didn't hurt the movie at all. I'm looking forward to how they handle Jason in future movies.

My favorite scene of the movie was probably the last. Superman repeating Jor-El's monologue to Jason was just a great moment. The "fly-by" at the end made me leave the theater in a very happy mood.

5/5

It definitely lived up to my expectations.

On a sidenote, I have never seen such a positive reaction to a movie as I saw at the end of SR. I've only ever heard people applaud a movie two or three times and it's usually just a few people. The whole audience applauded as Superman flew by at the end. And another strange thing I noticed: A lot more people than usual hanging around in the theater in large groups, talking about the movie. I think people are really going to enjoy this.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

On a sidenote, I have never seen such a positive reaction to a movie as I saw at the end of SR. I've only ever heard people applaud a movie two or three times and it's usually just a few people. The whole audience applauded as Superman flew by at the end. And another strange thing I noticed: A lot more people than usual hanging around in the theater in large groups, talking about the movie. I think people are really going to enjoy this.

Depends on the crowd, I guess.

In mine, not one soul aplauded.

As for the Island, there was more kryptonite visible under the island while Superman was lifting it than there was on the island when Superman landed on it and was swiftly stripped of his power. I remember that on the surface we only see little green strands on the side of the kind of staircase where Luthor was standing. Under the Island we could see some large strands almost poking him.

The supercharching explanation is bull. I know that is exactly what the writer and director want to imply, but there was plenty of sun available during the Plane sequence were he appeared almost struggling to stop the plane. There is no logic to be found here. Now we know that if the writer feels like it, Superman can even circumvent his Kryptonite restriction as long as it looks like he's trying real hard.

BTW : Another minor gripe ; Am I crazy or did Superman make a crater when he fell unconscious to the ground? If so we are damn lucky he didn't cause a tsunami when he did the same in water. :lol:

Finally Mooney, how can you rate the movie 5/5 when by your own admission the movie occasionnaly dragged? The way you describe the movie was more 3.5 or 4. What are you gonna rate a movie that you feel is as good in the action and drama department but that doesn't drag, hmm?

 

[Random]

but there was plenty of sun available during the Plane sequence were he appeared almost struggling to stop the plane. There is no logic to be found here. Now we know that if the writer feels like it, Superman can even circumvent his Kryptonite restriction as long as it looks like he's trying real hard.

So what the plane was suppose to stop immediately when he started pushing? It had a HUGE momentum build up, plus he probably should of slowed rather than a complete stop to reduce stress on the plane lowering the chance of it crumbling

Also the kryptonite under didnt reveal itself until he was almost out of the atmosphere, and was also supose to show himself pushing his will to the limit, toward near death

 

[moonmaster]

As for the Island, there was more kryptonite visible under the island while Superman was lifting it than there was on the island when Superman landed on it and was swiftly stripped of his power. I remember that on the surface we only see little green strands on the side of the kind of staircase where Luthor was standing. Under the Island we could see some large strands almost poking him.

The supercharching explanation is bull. I know that is exactly what the writer and director want to imply, but there was plenty of sun available during the Plane sequence were he appeared almost struggling to stop the plane. There is no logic to be found here. Now we know that if the writer feels like it, Superman can even circumvent his Kryptonite restriction as long as it looks like he's trying real hard.

The Plane: He'd been traveling through space for five years. I think it's reasonable to assume that when he returned, his powers were diminished. It may have taken him awhile to come back to full strength.

The Island: Again, he almost died getting rid of the Island. People have been known to gain almost superhuman strength when put under extreme stress and forced to do something bigger than they're body is used to do. Now imagine what happens when that kind of thing happens to someone like Superman. He had to summon everything he had in order to lift the Island.

Finally Mooney, how can you rate the movie 5/5 when by your own admission the movie occasionnaly dragged? The way you describe the movie was more 3.5 or 4. What are you gonna rate a movie that you feel is as good in the action and drama department but that doesn't drag, hmm?

It did drag, but not very much. And like I said, the movie provided a lot of great scenes to make up for the slow bits. I mostly rated it as to how it lived up to my expectations. In general (when compared to other comic book movies), yes, it would be somewhere between a 3.5 and a 4.5

 

[E.Vi.L.]

So what the plane was suppose to stop immediately when he started pushing? It had a HUGE momentum build up, plus he probably should of slowed rather than a complete stop to reduce stress on the plane lowering the chance of it crumbling.

Of course he shouldn't have stopped it dead in its track. But he shoudln't have look like it was straining it either. Even with the momentum, this took a lot less strenght than to lift the island into space. Easily a 1000 time less. He could have been whistling, holding the plane with one hand and waving the crowd with the other when you compare that feat to lifting the Island in orbit.

Hey, another minor gripe ; Superman didn't even nearly clear the island from Earth's gravity field. It should have fell back into Earth. Like the Unconscious Superman did, as a matter of fact. Think about it ; If the moon doesn't leave Earth's orbit, the island sure as hell wouldn't have. And since it had not much speed, it would have fallen back instead of starting orbiting.

I had so many of these thoughts while watching the movie... Collectively they don't amount to much but are still worth a .5 deduction in my book. The other superheros movies I've seen usually don't require as much suspension of disbelief once you have accepted the super power premise.

I mostly rated it as to how it lived up to my expectations. In general (when compared to other comic book movies), yes, it would be somewhere between a 3.5 and a 4.5

Yeah, that'd be more like it. More like 3.5 if we go by Rotten Tomatoes. Plenty of critics who like it even though several S-Hero movies have done better.

As long as you like the basic concept of Superman, it's gotta be a reasonably enjoyable movie. Not quite my case as anybody can tell.

Spider-Man 1 & 2, Hellboy, X2 and Batman Begins are the top 5 for me at this point.

 

[Planet-man]

I thought the plane sequence was spectacular. It could have been longer, though. I had read in early reports that it was 20-25 minutes long, so I was surprised that it ended so quickly.

I was also disappointed by the length, especially since I was never really THAT floored by the plane sequence and was waiting for something really amazing to happen. The Superman Homepage early reviewer who I am good friends with said the plane sequence was around 15-20 minutes long and one of the most incredible action sequences in movie history.

It fell short of both.

I liked the climax of the movie, and I think people who say it didn't make any sense aren't paying attention. For one thing, the entire island was not made of kryptonite. It was sort of laced with kryptonite.

Laced with enough Kryptonite to make him sweat, cut his hands on the rough ground, and let three mortals beat the Krytonian krap out of him.

Also, before Supes lifted the island, he flew high into the air and super-charged himself in the sun.

Super-charged?! He hovered in direct sunlight for a few seconds. By your reckoning Clark's trip to the beach would be super-charging.

If he had flown into the sun, then I'd have believed it.

And the instances of amazing will-power and strength-summoning you're refering to didn't happen while the person in question was succoming to fatal radiation poisoning.:wink:

Routh did a great job. Superman is a man of few words. That's how it should be. If you don't like that, then maybe he isn't the character for you.

Oh yeah, that's how it should be all right. Even though he's never been that way before and I was still a gigantic fan of him.:roll:

Routh was still very good though. He just needed more to do.

I liked Kate Bosworth. People seem to be forgetting that she's been a mom for five years. Five years of raising a child will definitely change a person. She's a little less spunky, and a lot less risky and that's the way things should be. People tend to change in real life. Why can't characters do the same?

She was good but not great. It wasn't her lack of spunk that bothered me so much as her general plainess. She's got dull, expressionless eyes, which is really saying something for someone with eyes as interesting as hers(one blue, one brown).

On a sidenote, I have never seen such a positive reaction to a movie as I saw at the end of SR. I've only ever heard people applaud a movie two or three times and it's usually just a few people. The whole audience applauded as Superman flew by at the end. And another strange thing I noticed: A lot more people than usual hanging around in the theater in large groups, talking about the movie. I think people are really going to enjoy this.

Really? The audience I saw it with (Wednesday night) gave a pretty lukewarm response at the end. The only real applause was when the "Superman Returns" title appeared on the screen as the music climaxed.

A few people clapped at the end, but it was nothing compared to the applause at the end of X-Men 1, 2 and 3 and Batman Begins, the flat out cheering for both Spider-Man movies, or the only standing ovation I've ever seen in a theatre, at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.

To digress, that last one was incredible. Not only was there the standing ovation, but when the the cast credits started, with each actor's name appearing on the screen one at a time, alongside a pencil sketch of them in the role, each name got it's own batch of applause. The response for Sean Astin was deafening.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Anyways.......let me pose to you another question:

Do you think Routh will suffer "The Superman Curse"?




I think he might. I'm sure he'll get other roles as do all actors...but I think he'll end up being another Hugh Jackman. Famous for basically playing one role.

 

[Planet-man]

I think he might. I'm sure he'll get other roles as do all actors...but I think he'll end up being another Hugh Jackman. Famous for basically playing one role.

You know Hugh Jackman is an incredibly successful Broadway actor, right?

 

[Victor Von Doom]

You know Hugh Jackman is an incredibly successful Broadway actor, right?

Yes, I do know. But how much do you think the general non-theater person cares? Not much.

I'm saying there is a heavy possibility that he'll be pigeon-holed as Superman when he goes for other roles. Same thing happened to Christopher Reeve as well.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Yes, I do know. But how much do you think the general non-theater person cares? Not much.

And if half the audience knows you're a respected Broadway Professional and the other half think you're wolverine and you're wallet's getting thicker and thicker... how much do you think Hugh Jackman cares?

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Do you think Routh will suffer "The Superman Curse"?

Yes.

And he'll never make as much money out of his movie Career as Jackman will have when all is said and done. After X-Men, Jackman has done Swordfish, Kate & Leopold and Van Helsing. Not all great movies, but all movies where he was the lead and for which he probably took home nice paycheck. He's in a movie with Scralett Johansson coming out in the next weeks (Scoop). Check his filomography and you'll see he has kept busy with movies.

Superman won't do nearly as much good to Routh, IMO. Even if the following Superman movies do good, he'll do more like Mark Hamil. Or Cristopher Reeves for that matter.

Nothing to be ashamed of, mind you, and I don't think we'll see Brandon Routh reduced to begging and living under the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Yes.

And he'll never make as much money out of his movie Career as Jackman will have when all is said and done. After X-Men, Jackman has done Swordfish, Kate & Leopold and Van Helsing. Not all great movies, but all movies where he was the lead and for which he probably took home nice paycheck. He's in a movie with Scralett Johansson coming out in the next weeks (Scoop). Check his filomography and you'll see he has kept busy with movies.

Superman won't do nearly as much good to Routh, IMO. Even if the following Superman movies do good, he'll do more like Mark Hamil. Or Cristopher Reeves for that matter.

Nothing to be ashamed of, mind you, and I don't think we'll see Brandon Routh reduced to begging and living under the Brooklyn Bridge.

YES!!! Somebody gets what I'm saying!!!

Whew...

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

there are some rumors about Routh being in the closet, and that his publicist is going to wait for him to come out until after the Superman movies are greenlit and in production... In which case he would likely become one of the posterboy actors of the post-Brokeback Mountain gay romance movies that will probably start popping up here and there...

Also, Bryan Singer is openly gay, and Kevin Spacey has gotten a lot of pressure from the gay community (usually Ian McKellan) for publicly staying in the closet even though everyone in hollywood knows he's gay...

...

And the Gay Agenda has just stolen the Great American Super-Hero.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!

 

[ProjectX2]

TRUTH, JUSTICE, and THE AMERICAN GAY!

 

[Planet-man]

there are some rumors about Routh being in the closet, and that his publicist is going to wait for him to come out until after the Superman movies are greenlit and in production... In which case he would likely become one of the posterboy actors of the post-Brokeback Mountain gay romance movies that will probably start popping up here and there...

Also, Bryan Singer is openly gay, and Kevin Spacey has gotten a lot of pressure from the gay community (usually Ian McKellan) for publicly staying in the closet even though everyone in hollywood knows he's gay...

...

And the Gay Agenda has just stolen the Great American Super-Hero.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!

From Friday's IMDb "Studio Briefing" page:

How High Did 'Superman' Really Fly?

Rival studios were claiming Thursday that Warner Bros. overestimated the opening-day gross of Bryan Singer's Superman Returns by more than $2 million, according to L.A. Weekly columnist Nikki Finke. Finke also reported that Warner Bros. is rushing to "retool" its marketing campaign in an effort to "stem the gay buzz surrounding" the movie. "As late as this week," Finke wrote, "new TV ads transformed [star Brandon] Routh from doe-eyed softie to macho techno-man of steel, borrowing heavily from other comic-books successes like Spider-Man and X-Men in its look and feel." In any case, Superman Returns is expected to exceed $100 million by the end of the July 4th holiday.

 

[moonmaster]

From Friday's IMDb "Studio Briefing" page:

Warner Bros. is basing their expectations off of how Batman Begins performed, and I believe SR is already outgrossing it.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

I enjoyed the film, including the romance aspect that every other male friend I know *****ed about.

A minor gripe, Kal "Kumar" Penn was wasted here. From smart-assed stoner to generic quiet henchman, I think he was too stoked to complain about his role in the film since he's in the freakin' Superman movie after all.