Superman Returns movie discussion *Spoilers*

[TheManWithoutFear]

Ahh hell.

Superman was a better movie.

hehehehe.... :twisted:

 

[The Overlord]

I did not care for the kooky Lex Luthor, the best version of Luthor was the one from STAS, who was serious and sinister. That's the Lex I grew up with, not the silly Pre crisis one. They should have made someone else the comic relief. This version of Lex felt like was trying to be funny almost all the time and his plan made no sense (how was he going to terraform that land). Why not make Brainiac a jokester well their at it, he can the comic relief in the next film. :roll:

 

[Planet-man]

I did not care for the kooky Lex Luthor, the best version of Luthor was the one from STAS, who was serious and sinister. That's the Lex I grew up with, not the silly Pre crisis one. They should have made someone else the comic relief. This version of Lex felt like was trying to be funny almost all the time and his plan made no sense (how was he going to terraform that land). Why not make Brainiac a jokester well their at it, he can the comic relief in the next film. :roll:

:rockon:

I love ya, man.

 

[Planet-man]

Hey mods, can we maybe attach a one-to-five-star "How would you rate Superman Returns" poll to this?

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Hey mods, can we maybe attach a one-to-five-star "How would you rate Superman Returns" poll to this?

I would've done it already but last time Ice told me I had no right creating duplicate threads.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I did not care for the kooky Lex Luthor, the best version of Luthor was the one from STAS, who was serious and sinister. That's the Lex I grew up with, not the silly Pre crisis one. They should have made someone else the comic relief. This version of Lex felt like was trying to be funny almost all the time and his plan made no sense (how was he going to terraform that land). Why not make Brainiac a jokester well their at it, he can the comic relief in the next film. :roll:

Well kiddo, this whole movie is a sequel to two films that came out pre-crisis... and frankly, the Luthor as businessman, and Luthor as mad scientist angle have been done again and again. If they had tried to carbon copy what's been done, this story would not have been nearly as interesting, or good, for that matter.

And Spacey's Luthor was not kooky. Hackman did the kooky Luthor... Spacey did the Luthor with no remorse and a dark sense of humor... All paired with an impeccable hatred of superman...

The thing that the Movie Luthor can do that the comic luthor can not is get his hands dirty. Luthor beat the **** out of superman. He was kicking him, and then he stabbed him in the side... All out of sheer and complete hatred. There was NOTHING kooky about that. He is about to wipe out the entire continental US, and he doesn't give a damn! He is smart, He has a plan, and he gets it done. Had they used ANY other version of Luthor, someone else would have fought Superman to the edge of his life, someone else would have stabbed him, because Luthor doesn't get dirty... He's powerful, he can have people do things for him... Spacey's Luthor wants revenge for putting the most intelligent man in the world in the one place where his intellect means precisely Jack Squat. He uses humor as a means to demean the people he surrounds himself with because he likes the fact that he is smart. He shrugs off the death of his men, they are lesser than him and are therefore disposable.

The Kevin Spacey Luthor is a criminal who is trying to make money, and he doesn't give a **** if people know that. He wants power so he gets power, and he gets it completely on his own merit. He doesn't need Metallo or Parasite to keep Supes busy, not at all... He nearly won all on his own merit.

Hell, if it weren't for Lois and her Husband (I discount the son, because if he can fly, he sure as hell doesn't know it yet, and Richard had a plane), Superman would have drowned. Luthor would have won.

If you want the Luthor from Superman: The Animated Series, go pick up any one of the Three volumes of the TV show, or even some of the Justice League Episodes... If you want Luthor from the comics, go pick up the President Lex trade paperback, or Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography... If you want something that stands on its own, and a purely original take on the character that you won't see in next week's issue of 52, watch the movie again.

 

[ProjectX2]

Hey mods, can we maybe attach a one-to-five-star "How would you rate Superman Returns" poll to this?

Done.

I can't wait to see this on Saturday night.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Done.

I can't wait to see this on Saturday night.

First, the movie was good, but it doesn't need two five star options.

Second, how the hell can you wait until Saturday? Kill who ever you have to to see this movie before then.

 

[Planet-man]

Done.

I can't wait to see this on Saturday night.

Thanks. I can tell you're excited, you made two five-star options!

 

[Planet-man]

I'm dying here.

So am I.....because I saw it tonight.

Now I'm just hoping I'll wake up and it will be this morning again. It was all a dream. And we're going to see Superman Returns tonight! And it's not going to end up sucking.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!:cry: :cry: :cry:

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Planet-Man, I feel bad at how wrong you are.

*shakes head pitiously*

 

[Friday]

That was a very good movie, only next time please no Lex Luthor. he has been in 4 of the 5 movies I would love to see Singer's take on braniac

But Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor is perfect. If anything I want to see more of him and Kitty in the next. And remember, the Luthor-Brainiac tem ups were always the best ones.

And the son thing fell apart at the end, When did Superman find out, I dont recall anyone telling him, I feel that it needed more resolution.

Well you remeber the hospital scene. They ever said that some people remember things told to them in comas. Then Lois leans in and whispers in his ear.

I did not care for the kooky Lex Luthor, the best version of Luthor was the one from STAS, who was serious and sinister. That's the Lex I grew up with, not the silly Pre crisis one. They should have made someone else the comic relief. This version of Lex felt like was trying to be funny almost all the time and his plan made no sense (how was he going to terraform that land). Why not make Brainiac a jokester well their at it, he can the comic relief in the next film. :roll:

WEll in the first two films he was a "think big but not logicaly" kind of villian too. He's more concerned with getting the big parts worked out, everything else will be handled later. Remember ,this is the same Luthor who decided to break California off into the ocean so his arizona property values would increase.

And the comedy aspects of him was spot on. Its funny not because he's over the top, but because the character takes himself so seriously he can't see just how goofy he is. The scenes with him and his goons (in wich Kal Penn was severly underused) stole the film.

Hell, if it weren't for Lois and her Husband (I discount the son, because if he can fly, he sure as hell doesn't know it yet, and Richard had a plane), Superman would have drowned. Luthor would have won.

I do believe that was the purpose of the scene with young clark. To show that his powers grew, not just exploded out of him, so that we'd know his boy is too young to be flying just yet.

I'm going to go see it again next week.

In 3-D IMAX.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I'm seeing this tonight.

I'm hoping the "wow" factor and a fun Spacey performance will overcome my dislike for the character of Superman.

Plus, I hope the second movie I'll see for free will be good.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I'm going to have to disagree about wanting a Luthor-Brainiac team up...

I think that to really hit the nail on the head, the next movie should have two major threats... Luthor trying to steal Superman Jr. and Brainiac trying to record all of Human Knowledge before the destruction of the planet.

Hell, maybe even it turns into something like Brainiac's purpose is to record the final hours of a planet... So Superman has to save the planet, and then Brainiac's programming gets ****ed up and he thinks that he must be the one to destroy Earth, so he tries to and Superman kills him.

Basically this would allow for Brainiac to have followed Clark to Earth from the graveyard of Krypton.

...

Who else thinks that Darkseid could also be a very good villain-choice?

 

[The Overlord]

I'm going to have to disagree about wanting a Luthor-Brainiac team up...

I think that to really hit the nail on the head, the next movie should have two major threats... Luthor trying to steal Superman Jr. and Brainiac trying to record all of Human Knowledge before the destruction of the planet.

Hell, maybe even it turns into something like Brainiac's purpose is to record the final hours of a planet... So Superman has to save the planet, and then Brainiac's programming gets ****ed up and he thinks that he must be the one to destroy Earth, so he tries to and Superman kills him.

Basically this would allow for Brainiac to have followed Clark to Earth from the graveyard of Krypton.

...

Who else thinks that Darkseid could also be a very good villain-choice?

Maybe Darkseid could be a jokester. Superman must face the wrath of Shecky "Rimshot" Darkseid, evil galatic dictator and funny man. We have seen too much of that serious Darkseid anyways. :roll:

 

[Victor Von Doom]

There's a reason why I saw this movie twice in a row today, possibly once more tonight and probably another four times while it's showing in theaters.

IT WAS GREAT.

For starters, the opening. First we hear Brando monologue, then we see Krypton die (and was that a sight). Then, when John Williams Superman theme started and the credits were just like the original, all my doubts were erased. It was just a feeling that let you know that THIS was a movie that was going to be right. Was it ever.

Oh dear God....the opening. Brando's voice.....Krypton exploding....the opening score.....and the classic credits. All of it was enough to bring tears to my eyes.

It was just so beautiful. Any fears or reservations I had were gone in that one instant. It was like the entire audience of true fans could actually breathe again. A collective breath exhale just washed over the crowed.

James Marsden was terrific. I loved that they made his character honest, and didn't try to play our sympathies against him. I loved that they did let him rescue Lois, but still showed that he was only human just doing the best he could. I loved that he understood what he was caught in and handled it like a standup guy. It will set a good example for his son.

Totally.

Now, speaking of that... Didn't see it coming. Every ounce of me should have, it should have been plain as day. But I didn't, and for that reason when the piano came flying I was blown out of my seat.

Nobody saw it coming. We all should've....but our logic wouldn't allow us too.

.... and Clark repeating Jor-El's monologue was terrific.

I thought I was the only one who picked up on that. It was so terrific that it defies words.

So am I.....because I saw it tonight.

Now I'm just hoping I'll wake up and it will be this morning again. It was all a dream. And we're going to see Superman Returns tonight! And it's not going to end up sucking.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!:cry: :cry: :cry:

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Take me off of your sig. I can no longer be associated with you and your thoughts.

How can your brain even string those words together???

Planet-Man, I feel bad at how wrong you are.

*shakes head pitiously*

Indeed. Don't worry....Baby Jesus will set him straight.

Who else thinks that Darkseid could also be a very good villain-choice?

He would be a great choice.....as a final villain. That's the big gun you bring out for the epic ending of the films. I mean Superman films can go on forever....but Darkseid is the guy you pull out for the final movie.

But at that point...how well do you think the audience (more specifically the non-comic fans) will accept something on that grand of a scale? A man flying around in blue and red tights from another planet? Sure...ok...I'll bite. But a massive invasion from some guy who looks like he's made of concrete? Hmmmmm....not so much.

I say this because of the casual conversations I have with non-comic readers, they find a lot of the stuff just too unbelievable even by comic standards.

I was thinking more along the lines of say having Metallo as the main villain in #2, while introducing different types of Kryptonite. Then having a super powered Lex w/ the different Kryptonite as a villain in #3. Ya know? Something that'll give the fans the big brawl they want...but keeping it simple for the casual movie-goer.





Here's my review that'll being going in the UC Newsletter that Ice is doing:


Superman Returns
Bryan Singer can do whatever he wants to any comic book film he's making. Doesn't matter what, because it WILL be good. Singer could make Green Lantern Corps with the cast of Jackass and make it a slapstick comedy with the cast spouting Jerry Lewis lines and doing Three Stooges bits and it would still be great.

There are so many things about this movie that fires on all points. From the opening scene, in one line, Singer gives a credible excuse as to what happened to Superman and why he left. Boom—done! Then the credits roll and that trumpet blares. Goosebumps filled my body and the title flashes across the screen and my film/comic fanboy mind screams, "HOLY PISS!!!! HE USED THE SAME OPENING AS THE ORIGINAL FILMS!!!!"

That is just one of the many nods Singer makes to the Donner films.

As any 5 year old knows from watching the trailers and several recent TV spots, the premise of "Superman Returns" is fairly obvious. After 5 years of being gone, Superman returns to Metropolis to discover that the world has moved on from him. Lois Lane is engaged and has a child. Lex Luthor has come up with some maniacally genius plot to further make him richer. Lois and kid wind up in danger and it's up to Superman to save the day. That might not sound like something that can eat up a 2 ½ hour film….but trust me---it does.

As a side note---any reader of the current Superman/Action Comics can see, the plot of "Superman Returns" mirrors the plot of the current arc "Up,Up and Away". Superman returns after a long absence just as Luthor discovers a Kryptonian artifact that could destroy Metropolis. It makes me wonder if the writers of the comic were given a sneak peek at the film during studio premiering and a copy of the script. I mean if you think about it…the "Up, Up and Away" arc ended Wednesday…the exact date of the film's release. Coincidence?

But aside from the plot, the big question on everyone's mind: "Is Routh Superman?" The answer: "Yes. Yes he is." I didn't realize it before but Routh is a huge sumb*tch. The guy's like 6'2-4". Routh can play the physical role of Superman superbly and convincingly. Sadly though, its as Clark Kent where Routh falls short. Christopher Reeve, made Clark as alive and as important as Superman. Routh plays Clark as Superman in glasses. He makes Clark a hollow shell with no identity or history of his own. Almost as if he crash landed only last month and this is how he thinks humans act, instead of the obvious fact that although he's Superman—he was Clark first. But this is a debate that can be quibbled over forever amongst purists.

I'll say it now—I don't care who agrees and who doesn't. Lois Lane was miscast. Bosworth is a cute girl. She is. When she's in roles like "Blue Crush" or playing Sandra Dee in "Beyond the Sea", she's great and believable. But I just don't buy her as the Pulitzer-winning, sharp hard-hitting, investigative journalist. Hell…I don't buy her as a brunette. Sorry Kate…go back to blonde and the beach.

Kevin Spacey as Luthor was so spot on it's scary. With just the right mix of Hackman's camp and the self-viewed, narcissistic savior of humanity against the alien threat version of comic book world Luthor. Personally…I would've loved to Bruce Willis as Lex in a portrayal of the sinister Luthor from the Superman:TAS. But that's neither here nor there. Fact is---Spacey is as much Lex as Routh is Superman. Luthor's plan in the film is also a nod to Luthor's original plan in the first Superman film. But just like in the original, Lex's plan is again foiled by a female. If Lex is truly gonna conquer the world, he's gonna have to take a vow of celibacy.

Another less-acknowledged main character of the film is "Superman In Action" (SIA). While Routh can definitely play Superman in the suit….its when he's SIA that Routh disappears and SIA takes over. The same way Raimi made all the CGI movements of Spidey seem real…is the same way Singer managed to capture the "realistic" nature of Superman's movements. Unlike the Donner films where we had Reeve superimposed into the screen in just one pose…here we have Routh adjusting his body while changing directions, dealing with the physics involved when stopping mid-flight from 200mph, exploring the total freedom of movement from not being subject to the laws of gravity. The end product looks absolutely amazing. Unlike anyone you've ever seen onscreen flying before. The CGI looks as real as Gollum or The Hulk. In certain parts it's hard to distinguish between Routh on green-screen and just CGI. Whatever Singer spent on FX….it was well worth it.

Overall…it's a great shot in the arm of the franchise. And with one small surprise that sure dropped the jaws of all audience members---it'll leave you wanting the sequel more than Spiderman 3. Yeah fanboys….I said it. If you don't have some small level of tears welling up in your eyes at some point of the film…your comic book soul is broken.

I guess now comes the dispute of which is the greater superhero movie: Batman Begins or Superman Returns???



5/5

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I guess now comes the dispute of which is the greater superhero movie: Batman Begins or Superman Returns???

Spider-Man 2

 

[Friday]

Spider-Man 2

Superman Returns dethrones the spider-man movies. Atleast to anyone who grew up watching the original movies on saturday afternoons at grandmas

 

[The Overlord]

Well kiddo, this whole movie is a sequel to two films that came out pre-crisis... and frankly, the Luthor as businessman, and Luthor as mad scientist angle have been done again and again. If they had tried to carbon copy what's been done, this story would not have been nearly as interesting, or good, for that matter.

And Spacey's Luthor was not kooky. Hackman did the kooky Luthor... Spacey did the Luthor with no remorse and a dark sense of humor... All paired with an impeccable hatred of superman...

The thing that the Movie Luthor can do that the comic luthor can not is get his hands dirty. Luthor beat the **** out of superman. He was kicking him, and then he stabbed him in the side... All out of sheer and complete hatred. There was NOTHING kooky about that. He is about to wipe out the entire continental US, and he doesn't give a damn! He is smart, He has a plan, and he gets it done. Had they used ANY other version of Luthor, someone else would have fought Superman to the edge of his life, someone else would have stabbed him, because Luthor doesn't get dirty... He's powerful, he can have people do things for him... Spacey's Luthor wants revenge for putting the most intelligent man in the world in the one place where his intellect means precisely Jack Squat. He uses humor as a means to demean the people he surrounds himself with because he likes the fact that he is smart. He shrugs off the death of his men, they are lesser than him and are therefore disposable.

The Kevin Spacey Luthor is a criminal who is trying to make money, and he doesn't give a **** if people know that. He wants power so he gets power, and he gets it completely on his own merit. He doesn't need Metallo or Parasite to keep Supes busy, not at all... He nearly won all on his own merit.

Hell, if it weren't for Lois and her Husband (I discount the son, because if he can fly, he sure as hell doesn't know it yet, and Richard had a plane), Superman would have drowned. Luthor would have won.

If you want the Luthor from Superman: The Animated Series, go pick up any one of the Three volumes of the TV show, or even some of the Justice League Episodes... If you want Luthor from the comics, go pick up the President Lex trade paperback, or Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography... If you want something that stands on its own, and a purely original take on the character that you won't see in next week's issue of 52, watch the movie again.

Why don't I watch the 1978 film again, because this movie seems like a rethread of that. Superman comes to town, does good deeds, is beloved by the people, takes Lois Lane flying across the city, Lex enacts a real estate scheme that makes no sense, Lex defeats Supes with kryptonite, Superman is saved by a third party. Superman ruins Lex's scheme by moving a large land mass with his strength. The majority movie going audience aren't familar with the comics or STAS, so Post Crisis Lex would have been new to them

I guess Braniac shouldn't be serious either, who needs the cool, Timm version, lets bring back the one from the 50s, the green man, with quaters stuck on his head, running around in a golf shirt and underwear.

Frankly this version of Lex wasn't that clever, his content was just a giant rock, how was he going to terra form the thing? Also his scenes with Lois were over the top and forced, they would have been way cooler if Lex had been calmer and sinister. Frankly him playing a direct role was often stupid, he went a museum and fooled the guards with a wig, that was a stupid risk. I liked the fact that Lex beat up Superman, but since that was in a private setting, the only other people there his goons, by wouldn't Post Crisis or STAS Lex do the same (Lex beat up Question in JLU.) Frankly this Lex was too forgiving, why didn't he throw Kitty off the coppter when she dropped those crystals, that would have been badass. This Lex had his moments (cutting the breaks on Kitty's car and beating up supes) but I think he could have been much cooler.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Brainiac shouldn't be the Timm version.

He should be something new, not an Earth-Made computer, but not Kryptonian either. He should be Coluan, but I would prefer him as the machine rather than the humanoid. Although the best Brainiac is the version in the Alex Ross comic book, Justice.

And yes, I like the Brainiac with the green skin.

Hell, he still has green skin in the comics...

I like the S:TAS version, but that's not the only good version, and its certainly not necessarily going to work with this version of the Superman story. Brainiac would have needed to show up in some capacity by now to be the Supercomputer of Krypton.

And you are definitely wrong about the majority of people seeing this won't be familiar with the movies. The majority of people seeing this are going to ONLY be familiar with the movies... Teenagers are one thing, but they aren't the core demographic.

A complete departure from what came before would just piss people off.

I'm not saying a more serious Luthor would have been bad, but I don't get where you're coming from in saying that a Luthor with a sense of humor is this great atrocity. Luthor does have a sense of humor, in the comics its just a bit more twisted, but this is a step in that direction from what came before... He's becoming more and more like the Luthor you want, but an unexplicable change of character would have been bull****.

This is a Sequel, not a new Franchise.