Secret Invasion discussion [Spoilers]

[E]

I just re-read #7 and I have to say, I am not enjoying this story much at all.

It was the Galactus Skrull really that did it for me.

This is just ridiculous now. It is just gratuitous fight scenes that don't make sense. If skrulls were copying Galactus' power, that fight would be pretty much over right then and there....right? Or can the giant girl from NA punch out Galactus? And honestly, is being Galactus a "duplicatable power set"?

For that matter is being a genuine god of thunder "duplicatable"? I mean, Thor doesn't really have "super powers". His "super power" is that he is A GOD. Yet somehow skrulls are able to duplicate that "ability" and then give him a run for his money in a fight? Even while he has the Odin power on top of it all?

Or is that being copied by skrulls also?

I agree with this 100%.

I re-read the first 7 issues thinking that maybe things would make more sense all taken in at once. Nope. The last 3-4 issues have been a gigantic, poorly written fight scene and it's impossible to tell what's going on. Was Bendis going for that? The reader not being able to understand what's going on because no one in the comic can? That's what is seems like. But it doesn't *read* like that - it reads like he wrote 4 issues worth of script that just said "NY: big fight scene. Switch to Savage Land: big fight scene. Switch back to NY: big fight scene." There's no rhyme or reason or explanation to anything going on. It makes no sense.

And I hate the duplicating of powers. It makes sense for a Skrull to be able to duplicate Reed Richards's elasticity, or Giant Man's giant-y-ness, etc. But Galactus? What is the point?

And I don't have the foggiest idea what is going on with Janet. Is it cosmic power or something? That is seriously the worst cliffhanger I've ever seen. You can't even tell what happened to her.

This sucks. And it's about 5 issues too long.

 

[Bass]

The story would work better if the heroes were using guerrilla tactics to win instead of superhero battle royales.

Totally agree.

I thought this WHOLE idea tanked when the Skrulls show up in Manhattan.

Bendis doesn't know how to end his stories. It's rare when his ending isn't a deus ex machina.

The whole Skrull conspiracy was an interesting one that he supposedly set up way back in Disassembled or something. And he did have some interesting plays throughout, and the growing sense of paranoia wasn't bad at all except for the occasional "Bendis breakdown" (when a character written by Bendis has an inner conflict it leads to him yelling and being absolutely crazy, no matter what the conflict is).

But it seemed to me, this whole story arc was "The enemy can shapeshift to look like anyone and copy their powers." Yes, he had to handwave the whole "Why can't Wolverine detect them" issue (the answer is science!) but that was okay. The whole thing was "SECRET Invasion". The Skrulls were conquering the planet without us even realising they were there.

And it made a lot of sense. The Skrulls WOULD be an invisible controlling force. We know this because Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch already did this in The Ultimates.

So when the cliffhanger of #2 (or #3) has the Skrulls invading Manhattan in brightly coloured costumes, I lost all interest in downloading the comic because for some reason, on the cusp of victory, the Skrulls went, "RAR! NOW WE REVEAL OURSELVES SO YOU CAN BEAT US UP!" It's a SECRET invasion, remember? The only reason the Chitauri had spaceships is because they were losing an intergalactic war and had to blow up the Earth and go to another dimension. They revealed themselves on Earth because they were about to blow it up on their way OUT. Here, the Skrulls reveal themselves as they show up to take over the world. Gone is the interesting paranoia in the wake of Civil War, gone is the "Who do you trust?" element, replaced with a crappy War of the Worlds + Top Trumps = Franchise formula.

Tog, what you're saying about guerrilla warfare... What if Tony Stark discovered that the Initiative is almost nothing but Skrulls? He finds out that, oh I don't know, 90% of the Initiative's heroes are SKRULLS. And NO ONE believes him. He loses SHIELD. The one place to turn? Those New Avengers and their friends he's been hunting. The heroes go underground and have to fight the whole damn world. They don't have to just beat an alien invasion - they have to prove their IS one. The Skrulls actually show up on Earth and ask the UN if they can live on... I dunno, the Moon. Their world has been destroyed, and in exchange for the Moon they'll share technology. Because half the UN are Skrulls the motion is passed. Skrull culture starts to show up in human society (like those ads in the Marvel comics show) and so on and so on. Racism. Paranoia. Who are the heroes?

No. Big battle royales we've seen a thousand times before.

 

[Gemini]

You know what really bugs me about these super-skrulls?

The fact that they feel the need to tip everyone off to their power's by dressing like the person they have the powers of.

Does Kl'rt where a Fantastic Four uniform? Nooooooo.

 

[thee great one]

Totally agree.

I thought this WHOLE idea tanked when the Skrulls show up in Manhattan.

Bendis doesn't know how to end his stories. It's rare when his ending isn't a deus ex machina.

The whole Skrull conspiracy was an interesting one that he supposedly set up way back in Disassembled or something. And he did have some interesting plays throughout, and the growing sense of paranoia wasn't bad at all except for the occasional "Bendis breakdown" (when a character written by Bendis has an inner conflict it leads to him yelling and being absolutely crazy, no matter what the conflict is).

But it seemed to me, this whole story arc was "The enemy can shapeshift to look like anyone and copy their powers." Yes, he had to handwave the whole "Why can't Wolverine detect them" issue (the answer is science!) but that was okay. The whole thing was "SECRET Invasion". The Skrulls were conquering the planet without us even realising they were there.

And it made a lot of sense. The Skrulls WOULD be an invisible controlling force. We know this because Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch already did this in The Ultimates.

So when the cliffhanger of #2 (or #3) has the Skrulls invading Manhattan in brightly coloured costumes, I lost all interest in downloading the comic because for some reason, on the cusp of victory, the Skrulls went, "RAR! NOW WE REVEAL OURSELVES SO YOU CAN BEAT US UP!" It's a SECRET invasion, remember? The only reason the Chitauri had spaceships is because they were losing an intergalactic war and had to blow up the Earth and go to another dimension. They revealed themselves on Earth because they were about to blow it up on their way OUT. Here, the Skrulls reveal themselves as they show up to take over the world. Gone is the interesting paranoia in the wake of Civil War, gone is the "Who do you trust?" element, replaced with a crappy War of the Worlds + Top Trumps = Franchise formula.

Tog, what you're saying about guerrilla warfare... What if Tony Stark discovered that the Initiative is almost nothing but Skrulls? He finds out that, oh I don't know, 90% of the Initiative's heroes are SKRULLS. And NO ONE believes him. He loses SHIELD. The one place to turn? Those New Avengers and their friends he's been hunting. The heroes go underground and have to fight the whole damn world. They don't have to just beat an alien invasion - they have to prove their IS one. The Skrulls actually show up on Earth and ask the UN if they can live on... I dunno, the Moon. Their world has been destroyed, and in exchange for the Moon they'll share technology. Because half the UN are Skrulls the motion is passed. Skrull culture starts to show up in human society (like those ads in the Marvel comics show) and so on and so on. Racism. Paranoia. Who are the heroes?

No. Big battle royales we've seen a thousand times before.

Perfect. The Skrulls' world was destroyed in Annihilation.

I also had the same reaction when they invaded New York. I thought how is this any different?

When I heard that Fury was returning, I was excited. I was looking forward this Spy Nick Fury dealing with this ultimate spy story, but instead he gets a bunch of kids and a giant gun and starts shooting.

 

[mike3717]

And I hate the duplicating of powers. It makes sense for a Skrull to be able to duplicate Reed Richards's elasticity, or Giant Man's giant-y-ness, etc. But Galactus? What is the point?

Exactly. It doesn't make any sense. But if your going to make Galactus's power set one that can be replicated by Skrulls, which is ridiculous, you should at least make the skrull a Galactus level threat. But alas, it appears that the skrulls only copied his purple outfit.

This sucks. And it's about 5 issues too long.

It really does. I used to like Bendis. No more.

 

[mike3717]

Totally agree.

I thought this WHOLE idea tanked when the Skrulls show up in Manhattan.

Bendis doesn't know how to end his stories. It's rare when his ending isn't a deus ex machina.

The whole Skrull conspiracy was an interesting one that he supposedly set up way back in Disassembled or something. And he did have some interesting plays throughout, and the growing sense of paranoia wasn't bad at all except for the occasional "Bendis breakdown" (when a character written by Bendis has an inner conflict it leads to him yelling and being absolutely crazy, no matter what the conflict is).

But it seemed to me, this whole story arc was "The enemy can shapeshift to look like anyone and copy their powers." Yes, he had to handwave the whole "Why can't Wolverine detect them" issue (the answer is science!) but that was okay. The whole thing was "SECRET Invasion". The Skrulls were conquering the planet without us even realising they were there.

And it made a lot of sense. The Skrulls WOULD be an invisible controlling force. We know this because Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch already did this in The Ultimates.

So when the cliffhanger of #2 (or #3) has the Skrulls invading Manhattan in brightly coloured costumes, I lost all interest in downloading the comic because for some reason, on the cusp of victory, the Skrulls went, "RAR! NOW WE REVEAL OURSELVES SO YOU CAN BEAT US UP!" It's a SECRET invasion, remember? The only reason the Chitauri had spaceships is because they were losing an intergalactic war and had to blow up the Earth and go to another dimension. They revealed themselves on Earth because they were about to blow it up on their way OUT. Here, the Skrulls reveal themselves as they show up to take over the world. Gone is the interesting paranoia in the wake of Civil War, gone is the "Who do you trust?" element, replaced with a crappy War of the Worlds + Top Trumps = Franchise formula.

Tog, what you're saying about guerrilla warfare... What if Tony Stark discovered that the Initiative is almost nothing but Skrulls? He finds out that, oh I don't know, 90% of the Initiative's heroes are SKRULLS. And NO ONE believes him. He loses SHIELD. The one place to turn? Those New Avengers and their friends he's been hunting. The heroes go underground and have to fight the whole damn world. They don't have to just beat an alien invasion - they have to prove their IS one. The Skrulls actually show up on Earth and ask the UN if they can live on... I dunno, the Moon. Their world has been destroyed, and in exchange for the Moon they'll share technology. Because half the UN are Skrulls the motion is passed. Skrull culture starts to show up in human society (like those ads in the Marvel comics show) and so on and so on. Racism. Paranoia. Who are the heroes?

No. Big battle royales we've seen a thousand times before.

EXACTLY!!!! Your take on this is far better than what we are reading currently.

 

[Foolsfolly]

EXACTLY!!!! Your take on this is far better than what we are reading currently.

Bass should be an editor at Marvel. I don't think I've seen him come up with ideas but he knows a good one and he knows the heart of a good story and can keep people focused on the heart instead of the flashy art.

 

[mike3717]

Bass should be an editor at Marvel. I don't think I've seen him come up with ideas but he knows a good one and he knows the heart of a good story and can keep people focused on the heart instead of the flashy art.

I agree.

At the very least Marvel should consider replacing the blind, 3-arsed monkeys who currently make up their editorial staff, with someone competant. I get that it is convenient because never again will mankind have to look in 2 different places for an editor and a 3-arsed monkey.......but still.

I 2nd the nomination of Bass being promoted to Marvel editorial.

 

[Void.M]

I just re-read #7 and I have to say, I am not enjoying this story much at all.

It was the Galactus Skrull really that did it for me.

This is just ridiculous now. It is just gratuitous fight scenes that don't make sense. If skrulls were copying Galactus' power, that fight would be pretty much over right then and there....right? Or can the giant girl from NA punch out Galactus? And honestly, is being Galactus a "duplicatable power set"?

For that matter is being a genuine god of thunder "duplicatable"? I mean, Thor doesn't really have "super powers". His "super power" is that he is A GOD. Yet somehow skrulls are able to duplicate that "ability" and then give him a run for his money in a fight? Even while he has the Odin power on top of it all?

Or is that being copied by skrulls also?

Well, If Iron Man could clone him it's not much of a stretch that Skrulls could duplicate his power.


Thay have always treated Thor like a Super-Human anyway.

 

[mike3717]

Well, If Iron Man could clone him it's not much of a stretch that Skrulls could duplicate his power.

Yes well, cloning him was stupid also. You don't get a god out of a strand of hair. Nor can the mysticism of his hammer be duplicated by anyone other than Odin (or Thor now)

Thay have always treated Thor like a Super-Human anyway.

I know. And I have always had a problem with it. But it seemed when the new vol of Thor started that those days were done. Thor was going to be treated like he always should have been treated. Like a god.

I was wrong. That is why I don't want to read anymore Thor outside his own books. There should be some Marvel characters that are off limits to Loeb and Bendis. Thor is one of them.

 

[Bass]

You know what really bugs me about these super-skrulls?

The fact that they feel the need to tip everyone off to their power's by dressing like the person they have the powers of.

Does Kl'rt where a Fantastic Four uniform? Nooooooo.

:lol::lol: This is such a good point. :lol:

Perfect. The Skrulls' world was destroyed in Annihilation.

I also had the same reaction when they invaded New York. I thought how is this any different?

When I heard that Fury was returning, I was excited. I was looking forward this Spy Nick Fury dealing with this ultimate spy story, but instead he gets a bunch of kids and a giant gun and starts shooting.

Just like James Bond.

And I thought the Skrulls' homeworld got blown up AGES ago by Galactus... is this a repeating thing for the poor Skrulls?

EXACTLY!!!! Your take on this is far better than what we are reading currently.

Thanks.

Bass should be an editor at Marvel. I don't think I've seen him come up with ideas but he knows a good one and he knows the heart of a good story and can keep people focused on the heart instead of the flashy art.

That's very kind, thank you.

I agree.

At the very least Marvel should consider replacing the blind, 3-arsed monkeys who currently make up their editorial staff, with someone competant. I get that it is convenient because never again will mankind have to look in 2 different places for an editor and a 3-arsed monkey.......but still.

I 2nd the nomination of Bass being promoted to Marvel editorial.

I wouldn't say it's the editors' faults. Your comic's script arrives on the deadline date. It's rubbish. You can't delay it because the fanboys will kill you. So it gets to print because it's there.

While... while I know it's frustrating to have comics you don't enjoy come out, the truth is a lot of people do like them, and generally, most of the writers and artists involved don't go, "Man. How can I **** off the fans THIS month?!" It's a ****ing hard job.

It's one thing to bang your head on the wall as you point out plot holes and inconsistencies and errors and poor creative choices. It's another to actually insult the people behind it. We don't need to do that and we shouldn't. And they don't really deserve that hostility.

 

[Void.M]

Yes well, cloning him was stupid also. You don't get a god out of a strand of hair. Nor can the mysticism of his hammer be duplicated by anyone other than Odin (or Thor now)




I know. And I have always had a problem with it. But it seemed when the new vol of Thor started that those days were done. Thor was going to be treated like he always should have been treated. Like a god.

I was wrong. That is why I don't want to read anymore Thor outside his own books. There should be some Marvel characters that are off limits to Loeb and Bendis. Thor is one of them.

True, but weather we agree with it or not Loeb and Bendis's books always sell. So they probably wouldn't say no to them.

 

[mike3717]

it's there[/i].

While... while I know it's frustrating to have comics you don't enjoy come out, the truth is a lot of people do like them, and generally, most of the writers and artists involved don't go, "Man. How can I **** off the fans THIS month?!" It's a ****ing hard job.

It's one thing to bang your head on the wall as you point out plot holes and inconsistencies and errors and poor creative choices. It's another to actually insult the people behind it. We don't need to do that and we shouldn't. And they don't really deserve that hostility.

I agree that it is definitely easier for us to sit here and play monday morning QB and pass judgement on these books than it is to create them. But that is the nature of the business. When you put out work for public consumption, regardless of what it is, book, movie, comic, TV show even professional sports, it is subject to both praise and criticsm and both are fair.

And I wouldn't really call it hostility. I don't want to beat anyone up over it. But I certainly will mock those put out what I deem to be crap. If others like it they can defend it and I won't blame them. So insults, imo, are fine. And you know editorial staff has a decision to make. Is it better to be on time with a sub par product or is it better to be late but deliver higher quality? I guess that depends on who your talking to. But I believe that editorial is subject to criticism as much as the writers. After all, even if they can't guarantee good stories, at the very least their job is to ensure consistancy with continuity. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, ends up being the problem with many of these books.

 

[Gemini]

And another thing, what's so damn great about eart? There's lots of planet's out their that are easy pickin's

I hear Sakaar's a bit of a fixer-upper but they'd only have to fend off Skaar, who can be disctracted with a thing of sausage links.

Also, Deadpool's tie-in brought up something, Why is it these skrulls don't seem to be regenerating? I mean If they can make a skrull galactus, you'd think that Wolverine's healing factor would be like mandatory. AND COULDN'T THE SKRULLS REGENERATE IN THE FIRST PLACE, LIKE IN YOUNG AVENGERS WITH TOMMY MAKING THEM GO SPLODO?

Also, I'm pretty sure alot of these super-skrulls are all smoke and mirrors, I imagine that skrull is just dressed like Galactus, the Phoenix skrulls are just high function telepaths with some pyrokinesis. etc.

And what is with the skrull's Thing fetish? seriously like every other skrull has Thing arms for some reason.

 

[E]

And another thing, what's so damn great about eart? There's lots of planet's out their that are easy pickin's

Yeah. I would imagine it's because their biology is similar to humans, but then again a) aren't there many other planets in the MU like that? And b) the reader shouldn't have to try and infer that.

 

[Ice]

I believe the way they have tried to explain it is by that "their holy text" has said so (which is just stupid).

But a more believable answer could have (or really should have) been that with how they're angry at Reed for what he did to their kind that they form of revenge they would take would be to take his home.

 

[E]

But a more believable answer could have (or really should have) been that with how they're angry at Reed for what he did to their kind that they form of revenge they would take would be to take his home.

Maybe...but they have made their benevolent intentions pretty clear as far as the rest of humanity. It doesn't seem like something they are doing to "get back" at him.

 

[Ice]

Maybe...but they have made their benevolent intentions pretty clear as far as the rest of humanity. It doesn't seem like something they are doing to "get back" at him.

Yeah. It's just something that I thought of quickly. "Kill/imprison Reed Richards and take his home."

It's not the best idea/explanation, but at least it's more suitable than what Bendis used.

 

[thee great one]

It was prophecy, we don't have to explain it.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Yeah. It's just something that I thought of quickly. "Kill/imprison Reed Richards and take his home."

It's not the best idea/explanation, but at least it's more suitable than what Bendis used.

Well I thought bendis stated the whole reason for their invasion was because it was foretold in their bible coupled with the fact Galactus ate their planet. I doubt it had a whole lot to do with just reed.