Miracleman (Marvel)

[DIrishB]

Again, both the issues and trades are pricey, but still drastically cheaper than the original issues (for the most part) and definitely the original Eclipse trades (those go for hundreds of dollars), with the new coloring (which is fantastic), and the supplemental Miracleman and Warpsmith stories. Plus, it's a hardcover, and those tend to be a bit expensive anyway. I wonder if they'll do a softcover version. If they do I'm sure it'll be cheaper, though likely only $5 or $10 cheaper.

I've said it before, but I think the long, extended legal battle to obtain the rights to Miracleman cost Marvel quite a bit, so they're attempting to both recoup those costs as well as profit from the new issues/trades, so the fact the issues and trades are a bit expensive isn't surprising. And again, it's far cheaper than buying the originals with the added aspect of the new colors and collecting the supplemental stories.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Again, both the issues and trades are pricey, but still drastically cheaper than the original issues (for the most part) and definitely the original Eclipse trades (those go for hundreds of dollars), with the new coloring (which is fantastic), and the supplemental Miracleman and Warpsmith stories. Plus, it's a hardcover, and those tend to be a bit expensive anyway. I wonder if they'll do a softcover version. If they do I'm sure it'll be cheaper, though likely only $5 or $10 cheaper.

I've said it before, but I think the long, extended legal battle to obtain the rights to Miracleman cost Marvel quite a bit, so they're attempting to both recoup those costs as well as profit from the new issues/trades, so the fact the issues and trades are a bit expensive isn't surprising. And again, it's far cheaper than buying the originals with the added aspect of the new colors and collecting the supplemental stories.

I don't think there's a comparison between spending less for the expensive issues and more for the older issues. It's not the same; there are scans out there if you really need to read the story, which is what that comparison implies. If you are buying the Eclipse issues you're doing it because they are collectible and worth money.

The high price is compared to existing trades out now. $29.99 for what was sold years ago as a Premiere Hardcover for $19.99 (and actually containing less content - 4 issues here vs. the standard 6 then) is a lot. These books aren't going for $29.99 regularly. Some of them maybe $24.99 but that's it - and those come with the digital copy as well.

I'm sure you're right as to *why* the price is so high, but like I said, it sure does look like they've crossed the line as to what people will pay for a premium product. I do not believe sales on this book are very high, and probably not as high as they were expecting. The only reason that makes sense is because the price is too high.

As for the original Eclipse trades, you can find A Dream Of Flying in paperback for under $100 (I got mine for $75 I think). I actually got an Australian printing of The Golden Age for $20 a few years ago. Olympus is the one that really costs a lot. I think I've seen the hardcover for that one going for near $1000. I think the softcover can be had for around $200.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I don't think there's a comparison between spending less for the expensive issues and more for the older issues. It's not the same; there are scans out there if you really need to read the story, which is what that comparison implies. If you are buying the Eclipse issues you're doing it because they are collectible and worth money.

That's true. But even for these reprints, there's a collectible mindset for them in regards to the series continuing with Gaiman's new issues that'll premiere once the reprint material finishes, at least in the sense of them being the same run (as opposed to 24 issues of the Eclipse prints and however many new issues there'll be afterward).

The high price is compared to existing trades out now. $29.99 for what was sold years ago as a Premiere Hardcover for $19.99 (and actually containing less content - 4 issues here vs. the standard 6 then) is a lot. These books aren't going for $29.99 regularly. Some of them maybe $24.99 but that's it - and those come with the digital copy as well.

Again, true, but there is more than just 4 issues worth of material. The spin off stories are included and probably amount to an issue or two of added material. Though the supplemental stuff is largely a waste of time and likely just an excuse to act as padding to justify the price, as you said.

I'm sure you're right as to *why* the price is so high, but like I said, it sure does look like they've crossed the line as to what people will pay for a premium product. I do not believe sales on this book are very high, and probably not as high as they were expecting. The only reason that makes sense is because the price is too high.

Yeah, I agree in that regard. Like I said, I'm hoping a year or so from now they'll release a cheaper softcover version, but I could see Marvel sticking with the hardcover model as a lame way of justifying the high price.

As for the original Eclipse trades, you can find A Dream Of Flying in paperback for under $100 (I got mine for $75 I think). I actually got an Australian printing of The Golden Age for $20 a few years ago. Olympus is the one that really costs a lot. I think I've seen the hardcover for that one going for near $1000. I think the softcover can be had for around $200.

Whoa! No matter how much I enjoy Miracleman, I could never see myself spending almost $1000 on a trade. A couple hundred, maybe, but the pricey aspect of the trades are why I collected the individual Eclipse issues.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

#8 is out today. It collects the Eclipse #7 and parts of #8, which was interesting because it looks like it only collected the framing sequence of #8 and not the reprinted story. It was also interesting because a lot of the monologue in that framing sequence was making fun of and criticizing Marvel for reprinting issues and presenting them as new issues. :-D

Still, this book continues to impress. The coloring is great (by this point in the Eclipse series the colors weren't anywhere near as bad as the first issues collecting content from the Warrior book, so the differences aren't as prominent, but it still looks much better).

They still keep reprinting the old Marvelman crap in the back, though. At this point it has to be in order to attempt to justify the higher cover price they feel is necessary to make up for the amount of money they've dumped into this, but it completely fails in that regard. Even if I can bring myself to start to read them I can't finish them, they're so bad.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

#8 is out today. It collects the Eclipse #7 and parts of #8, which was interesting because it looks like it only collected the framing sequence of #8 and not the reprinted story. It was also interesting because a lot of the monologue in that framing sequence was making fun of and criticizing Marvel for reprinting issues and presenting them as new issues. :-D

Beautiful irony.

Still, this book continues to impress. The coloring is great (by this point in the Eclipse series the colors weren't anywhere near as bad as the first issues collecting content from the Warrior book, so the differences aren't as prominent, but it still looks much better).

Yes. Marvel has done a fantastic job with their approach to the coloring. It really adds a vibrancy to the existing material.

They still keep reprinting the old Marvelman crap in the back, though. At this point it has to be in order to attempt to justify the higher cover price they feel is necessary to make up for the amount of money they've dumped into this, but it completely fails in that regard. Even if I can bring myself to start to read them I can't finish them, they're so bad.

They really are terrible.


I'm wondering when (and if) they're going to reprint the Warpsmiths "Ghostdance" story that originally was printed in the A1 anthology. Also wonder if they're going to print the Miracleman - Triumphant series. Not sure if the artwork or scripts were ever done, though. They did have ads for the first issue, so I'm assuming at least that much was done. Not sure if its really a necessary component of the Miracleman mythos, though, since Gaiman only consulted on the series, and didn't write it.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I'm wondering when (and if) they're going to reprint the Warpsmiths "Ghostdance" story that originally was printed in the A1 anthology. Also wonder if they're going to print the Miracleman - Triumphant series. Not sure if the artwork or scripts were ever done, though. They did have ads for the first issue, so I'm assuming at least that much was done. Not sure if its really a necessary component of the Miracleman mythos, though, since Gaiman only consulted on the series, and didn't write it.

Ghostdance was collected in #4, fully colored.

I'm trying hard to remember, but I don't think anything was done with Triumphant besides some promo art by Mike Deodato. I could be wrong.

I'm much more interested in Apocrypha - that was a solid, well done little mini. They have to be bringing that back, I would think. With Triumphant I don't think there is anything to bring back.

 

[DIrishB]

Ghostdance was collected in #4, fully colored.

Completely forgot about that. I had checked the "chapter" page at the beginning of each issue and it wasn't listed for some reason. But it's after the Saturday Morning Pictures story in #4, right?

I'm trying hard to remember, but I don't think anything was done with Triumphant besides some promo art by Mike Deodato. I could be wrong.

That may be the case.

I'm much more interested in Apocrypha - that was a solid, well done little mini. They have to be bringing that back, I would think. With Triumphant I don't think there is anything to bring back.

Apocrypha will be collected, I'm sure.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

But it's after the Saturday Morning Pictures story in #4, right?

Something like that. I think it's the last story in the issue.

 

[Friday]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I dint think I can justify getting this at $5 a pop anymore. The backmatter is terrible and there's not enough of the main story in each issue.

 

[DIrishB]

I dint think I can justify getting this at $5 a pop anymore. The backmatter is terrible and there's not enough of the main story in each issue.

I'd suggest waiting for the hardcovers, except you'd end up paying more. Whereas you can buy 4 individual issues for a total of $20, you'd have to pay $30 for those same four issues in hardcover form...with no added material to make it worthwhile.

Unless you buy it from Amazon, which currently has volume 1 at $15 (50% off) plus shipping. So either way you're paying $5 per issue for it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785154620/?tag=tcbcom-20

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I dint think I can justify getting this at $5 a pop anymore. The backmatter is terrible and there's not enough of the main story in each issue.

I think that, starting with issue #9, the issues are going to mirror the Eclipse issues as far as content goes.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

DIB - are you picking up any of the variants? I just picked up 4 on eBay that seemed to be priced pretty fair. I like the Leinil Yu variant of #1 but it's kind of pricey.

 

[DIrishB]

DIB - are you picking up any of the variants? I just picked up 4 on eBay that seemed to be priced pretty fair. I like the Leinil Yu variant of #1 but it's kind of pricey.

No. I've never been a fan of or cared for variant covers, personally. Granted if one stands out because of fantastic artwork and coloring I'll definitely try to pick up that copy, but I don't buy multiples of the same book for the covers.

I'm old school. I buy the books for the story and art on the inside.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

No. I've never been a fan of or cared for variant covers, personally. Granted if one stands out because of fantastic artwork and coloring I'll definitely try to pick up that copy, but I don't buy multiples of the same book for the covers.

I'm old school. I buy the books for the story and art on the inside.

I don't generally but I like to get everything Miracleman that I can get my hands on, and while there are a lot of variants so far it's not undoable given the necessary amount of time (I probably spent close to 4-5 years getting all of the Eclipse issues).

 

[thee great one]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I don't generally but I like to get everything Miracleman that I can get my hands on, and while there are a lot of variants so far it's not undoable given the necessary amount of time (I probably spent close to 4-5 years getting all of the Eclipse issues).

If you ever get that hardcover from me then it will be a miracle, man.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

If you ever get that hardcover from me then it will be a miracle, man.

... :|

 

[DIrishB]

Presumably, in a little over a year (fourteen months to be exact, so around November, 2015), Marvel will begin releasing the "new" Miracleman issues by Gaiman (assuming they release #25 immediately after the reprints finish). I say "new" with quotation marks since #25 was completed, the script and artwork done before Eclipse folded.

Perhaps a year and a half if they fill in the months after #24 to re-release the Apocrypha #1-3 mini-series, and perhaps they'll also release Miracleman - Triumphant #1 issue (which sounds interesting and acts as a bridge between Gaimain's Golden Age and Silver Age arcs, and the entire issue's artwork can be seen here, as well as the full script... Deodato's art is fantastic and it certainly reads as a weird, cerebral tale).

I could even see them releasing Triumphant between issues #22 and #23 since that's where it's set chronologically.

But even factoring those in, by March or April us diehard Miracleman fans can finally start reading the new stuff. The wait is killing me, but it's made easier by getting to re-read the reprints each month (and often going back to re-read them) and admire the wonderful re- coloring.

Also, this link includes a summary of what happened with Eclipse and how ultimately it ended up falling apart due to poor business decisions, perhaps some money mismanagement and definitely a poor track record of paying artists and writers on time (which led to Miracleman's original Eclipse issues being published so sporadically, not anything to do with the writers or artists). More important, if you read the comments section below the article, Catherine Yronwode, one of the editors for Eclipse, responds defensively.

Pretty interesting read in terms of the drama in the background at Eclipse going on at the time.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Wow. What a mess Eclipse was. That's very interesting.

 

[DIrishB]

Wow. What a mess Eclipse was. That's very interesting.

Yeah. Miracleman's behind the scenes drama is insane.


Did you check out the Miracleman - Triumphant script/pages? The story is ok, but Deodato's artwork is pretty stellar.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I didn't yet, but what I did do what read about 5 parts of that series you linked to. Fascinating stuff.

I knew that the new Marvelman hardcovers published by Marvel didn't sell well, but one of those articles links to another sites with some sales figures - less than 300 on some of those! That's incredible.

Some other interesting tidbits - Emotive bought the rights from Anglo for roughly $6,500 equivalent. Emotiv sold to Marvel for about a million, and were in the process of licensing the rights for a movie trilogy. The articles made it sound like Marvel plans on making a movie.

It also reveals a lot of the timeline between McFarlane and Gaiman's lawsuit. It confirms that McFarlane is an arrogant hypocrite douche even more than was previously believed.

I think the most interesting stuff comes around part 15 or so, in which the author floats the very real possibility that Anglo didn't even own the rights when he sold to Emotiv, and had much less to do with the character's creation than is believed.