Miracleman (Marvel)

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Except I also do recognize what it did to the medium. Same way I recognize how Watchmen or The Matrix changed the mediums they were in. I really like this comic series and I realize now is that I think what it boils down to is I don't think anything should be restricted.

That's an oversimplification. I can only speak for myself but think many MM fans would prefer tales to be told in that series by writers' and artists' at the top of the field, and only when the story is fantastic.

It would be a nice change of pace, at least. You can view it as exclusionary all you want, and it is, but for the best of reasons.

It's sort of like those FDA laws that only allow a small percent of arsenic into your food. Ideally I'd personally prefer to see it be 100% arsenic-free.

I might not see the point in remaking Lord of the Rings but I don't think it should never happen. Nothing is too good not to be touched.

You're misunderstanding. No one is saying it's too good to be touched, they're just saying it's too good to be touched by writers and artists who really can't stand up to the previous level of quality. And that's a good thing.

There are already dozens and dozens and dozens of comics in various genres released every week. Most are probably pretty bad to mediocre at best. Some are decent to pretty good. A handful are reliably great. And very, very few are as intelligently written and drawn, as thought-provoking, etc as Miracleman is.

I'd like to see that level of quality continue by having only the writers and artists capable on the title (should they continue it after Gaiman's run ends), instead of allowing it to be a proving grounds for younger or less talented writers/artists. There are plenty of other books each month that allow for that. Miracleman shouldn't.

It's like an old line of expensive Scotch went out of business years ago, but then was bought out and revived by another company who improved on the original recipe notably. Unfortunately they raised the price on the Scotch, to the point it's one of the most expensive brands available... anyway, what you're essentially calling for is some Guy Fieri sort of Food-TV-Show-Host to come in and squirt excessive amounts of lime juice all over the exquisite Scotch.

I also have yet to read a comic I'd call a masterpiece.

What do you consider a masterpiece in any form?

As for sales when I started buying Miracleman my store owner thanked me as he scanned it, he never does that for any comic. It's kind of upsetting that this isn't selling well because I've seen scans of the original and outside of the censoring the remastering is great, but, like it's been said, the price Is way too high even with the extras.

The original, uncensored versions are available.

I agree that Marvel is overcharging. They should be combining two issues worth of material (or at least close to it) for the price they charge for one (sometimes with worthwhile extras like the various Warpsmiths stories or the MM 3-D framing story, often just with sketches and cover galleries).

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

That's an oversimplification. I can only speak for myself but think many MM fans would prefer tales to be told in that series by writers' and artists' at the top of the field, and only when the story is fantastic.

It would be a nice change of pace, at least. You can view it as exclusionary all you want, and it is, but for the best of reasons.

It's sort of like those FDA laws that only allow a small percent of arsenic into your food. Ideally I'd personally prefer to see it be 100% arsenic-free.

You're misunderstanding. No one is saying it's too good to be touched, they're just saying it's too good to be touched by writers and artists who really can't stand up to the previous level of quality. And that's a good thing.

There are already dozens and dozens and dozens of comics in various genres released every week. Most are probably pretty bad to mediocre at best. Some are decent to pretty good. A handful are reliably great. And very, very few are as intelligently written and drawn, as thought-provoking, etc as Miracleman is.

I'd like to see that level of quality continue by having only the writers and artists capable on the title (should they continue it after Gaiman's run ends), instead of allowing it to be a proving grounds for younger or less talented writers/artists. There are plenty of other books each month that allow for that. Miracleman shouldn't.

It's like an old line of expensive Scotch went out of business years ago, but then was bought out and revived by another company who improved on the original recipe notably. Unfortunately they raised the price on the Scotch, to the point it's one of the most expensive brands available... anyway, what you're essentially calling for is some Guy Fieri sort of Food-TV-Show-Host to come in and squirt excessive amounts of lime juice all over the exquisite Scotch.

And this is just relooping to a conversation we've already had so I'm going to drop it because I think we all know by now how we all feel about other people taking over.

What do you consider a masterpiece in any form?

The Iron Giant

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

True, however I expect the continuation/new issues to sell predominantly better, even at the same price, mainly because they'll finally conclude a story fans of the series have been waiting over 20 years for.

I think those fans are the minority, and Marvel is asking them to stick it out for a story that no one bought in the first place. And let's not forget the sales of Gaiman's Miracleman...his last 2 issues had print runs of about 6000-6500.

I also expect that eventually, Marvel will wise up and realize its better to sell more at a lower price than it is to sell less at a more expensive price. While that likely won't be the case with the individual issues, it certainly CAN be for the trade paperbacks.

I think it was Tom Brevoort who said just the opposite of that - they are OK selling fewer copies of a book with a higher cover price because the margins are higher.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I think those fans are the minority, and Marvel is asking them to stick it out for a story that no one bought in the first place. And let's not forget the sales of Gaiman's Miracleman...his last 2 issues had print runs of about 6000-6500.

Not sure how the sales figures of 25 years back compare to modern day, but 6000-6500 issues by a small publisher (who was coincidentally going bankrupt) at that time doesn't seem like a small amount. But like I said, maybe it was, I honestly don't know in the terms of 25 years ago.

I think it was Tom Brevoort who said just the opposite of that - they are OK selling fewer copies of a book with a higher cover price because the margins are higher.

And I get that, but is it still holding true for Miracleman? Despite the fantastic recoloring for a phenomenal story, reprinted and finally being published in its entirety with an actual ending, interest has been pretty lukewarm in terms of sales.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Not sure how the sales figures of 25 years back compare to modern day, but 6000-6500 issues by a small publisher (who was coincidentally going bankrupt) at that time doesn't seem like a small amount. But like I said, maybe it was, I honestly don't know in the terms of 25 years ago.

It was 1993, so it was during the height of the comics boom and million-selling issues were commonplace. But for comparisons sake - issue 1 of Miracleman had a 135,000 print run.

Also, it appears that the print run for #24 was closer to something like 38,000 and there were some incorrect numbers floating around that I was referencing. Also keep in mind these are print runs, not sales numbers.

But the point here is that there is a massive dropoff between #1 and #24, which indicates that what readers were buying the issues didn't care enough to keep with it to the end, so I don't believe there is any reason to think sales on these reprints will be getting better. All indications are that they will get worse, and that's bad seeing as how they are bad enough as it is.

All of that is to say that I don't see the point in relaunching the series when it's not like the Now or All-New books, which are quite continuity-independent whereas the Gaiman issues absolutely are not.

And I get that, but is it still holding true for Miracleman? Despite the fantastic recoloring for a phenomenal story, reprinted and finally being published in its entirety with an actual ending, interest has been pretty lukewarm in terms of sales.

I wish I knew. As widely acknowledged as this series is in its quality and historical importance I have no idea why no one is buying this or talking about it. My only guess is that it's the pricing.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

It was 1993, so it was during the height of the comics boom and million-selling issues were commonplace. But for comparisons sake - issue 1 of Miracleman had a 135,000 print run.

Also, it appears that the print run for #24 was closer to something like 38,000 and there were some incorrect numbers floating around that I was referencing. Also keep in mind these are print runs, not sales numbers.

But the point here is that there is a massive dropoff between #1 and #24, which indicates that what readers were buying the issues didn't care enough to keep with it to the end, so I don't believe there is any reason to think sales on these reprints will be getting better. All indications are that they will get worse, and that's bad seeing as how they are bad enough as it is.

But that's true of ANY comic run. Sales drop per issue as time goes on and number of issues in the series increases.

All of that is to say that I don't see the point in relaunching the series when it's not like the Now or All-New books, which are quite continuity-independent whereas the Gaiman issues absolutely are not.

Simply put because it gives them a reason to put a #1 on the cover. I'd be surprised if the sales numbers of Gaiman's #1 aren't higher than say #14-16 of Moore's reprinted run.

I wish I knew. As widely acknowledged as this series is in its quality and historical importance I have no idea why no one is buying this or talking about it. My only guess is that it's the pricing.

I'd assume it's the pricing, but it may also be due to the changed tastes of the general comic buying market. Who knows? I'm sure price factors in as well.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

But that's true of ANY comic run. Sales drop per issue as time goes on and number of issues in the series increases.

Of course, but not that dramatically for such a critically-acclaimed book.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Of course, but not that dramatically for such a critically-acclaimed book.

Well, critically acclaimed or not, the long breaks between issues (especially during Gaiman's run) likely caused much of the reader dropoff. There's always the thing too, that often critically acclaimed books aren't as commercially successful as they are critically. It's why Academy Award nominees rarely ever have huge box office numbers.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

IDW just announced that they are publishing an Artifact Edition containing reproductions of original art from the series. Think a big huge book (artboard size) of the scans we get in the back of the Marvel issues which show all of the pasteups and edits, minus the crappy photocopies. Looks like the cover price is $95. It looks amazing.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

IDW just announced that they are publishing an Artifact Edition containing reproductions of original art from the series. Think a big huge book (artboard size) of the scans we get in the back of the Marvel issues which show all of the pasteups and edits, minus the crappy photocopies. Looks like the cover price is $95. It looks amazing.

Weird that IDW are publishing that instead of Marvel.

Didn't see Miracleman #17/#1 in the June solicits from Marvel. Looks like it's going to be a few months. I'm thinking we may not see it pick back up again until August/September.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Weird that IDW are publishing that instead of Marvel.

Didn't see Miracleman #17/#1 in the June solicits from Marvel. Looks like it's going to be a few months. I'm thinking we may not see it pick back up again until August/September.

IDW's been doing it for a while.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

IDW's been doing it for a while.

Publishing Miracleman art?

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Publishing Miracleman art?

Publishing Marvel art. The Spider-Man ones are especially nice.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Publishing Marvel art. The Spider-Man ones are especially nice.

Ah, ok. Still... weird. I guess since its a specialty market Marvel themselves have no interest and just license out to IDW.

 

[Ice]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

From C2E2:

"Lowe then confirmed that Neil Gaiman and Marc Buckingham's run on "Miracleman" will start its reprint run September with an eye towards getting the creators into brand-new material next year. "It will be so interesting to see creators who 20 years after being a part of it who can come back and revisit this with everything they've learned in between then and now," he said. There is a jam variant cover from a score of past Miracleman artists including Gary Leach and John Totleben."

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

From C2E2:

"Lowe then confirmed that Neil Gaiman and Marc Buckingham's run on "Miracleman" will start its reprint run September with an eye towards getting the creators into brand-new material next year. "It will be so interesting to see creators who 20 years after being a part of it who can come back and revisit this with everything they've learned in between then and now," he said. There is a jam variant cover from a score of past Miracleman artists including Gary Leach and John Totleben."

Alright.

So, assuming there are no delays in the reprints, the reprints should be done by April, 2016. Of course, I could see them doing another delay between The Golden Age and Silver Age arcs. That may push the premiere of the new stuff well into late 2016 (#25--or the renumbered #9?? Or will they renumber yet again with the Silver Age arc--essentially turning each into its own volume or mini-series, retrospectively, at least sort of).

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I hope they don't renumber the Silver Age arc. Keep each run as its own volume and number accordingly.

I do like that cover, and I'm excited to see the Gaiman issues recolored. Buckingham's art is majorly underrated and will look great with some better coloring.

 

[Ice]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Miracleman by Gaiman and Buckingham #1 preview

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Miracleman by Gaiman and Buckingham #1 preview

much less drastic of a difference between the old and new colors, but that is to be expected. Still looks great.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

So I wonder if this means we'll finally see the new stuff around a year from now. I'm sure there may be a couple month break between the Golden Age and Silver Age arcs to allow Gaiman and Buckingham to finish up the second arc, and get a decent head start on the third to avoid delays.

So maybe sometime next summer. The Golden Age run should finish in Feb, 2016, and I'm hoping the Silver Age arc begins within a few months after (hopefully just a 1-3 month break), around April or May 2016. So by June or July we should finally see #25 in its entirety.