Miracleman (Marvel)

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

And then my wall clock started to melt and ruined the carpet.

yeah, that's the danger with Salvador Dali themed hallucinations.

I read The Ultimates 3 and it made me want to read more comics. *shrugs*

Yeah. Obviously other people liked it too, Loeb is pretty popular. I just think we look for different things in comics.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Yeah. Obviously other people liked it too, Loeb is pretty popular. I just think we look for different things in comics.

Yeah, I try to be careful not to bash people for what they like. It's great that people read comics, and if someone likes something I don't...so what?

If anything it gives us something to talk about. I like learning about things, including why someone likes something that I don't like.

 

[whig4life]

Anyone read the "all new miracleman " story in annual 1? So disappointing.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I rather enjoyed both stories. Grant Morrison's story was, of course, one of the first comics he ever wrote and it was a nice, but brief, detour. The second story was a blast (they fought dolphins! How cool is that!?). The artists were the real MVPs though.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Anyone read the "all new miracleman " story in annual 1? So disappointing.

I thought it was OK. Nothing spectacular, but therein lies the problem. I'm afraid this opens the door for them to allow lesser writers to start writing stories.

I thought the Grant Morrison story was pretty great, though, and Quesada killed it on the art like he usually does. The coloring was great, too.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I thought it was OK. Nothing spectacular, but therein lies the problem. I'm afraid this opens the door for them to allow lesser writers to start writing stories.

I thought the Grant Morrison story was pretty great, though, and Quesada killed it on the art like he usually does. The coloring was great, too.

Yeah, I liked it. Even the Milligan tale did a good job of echoing the whacky, over the top Mick Anglo stories of the 1950's.

Morrison's was good, but it doesn't really stand up next to Moore's or Gaiman's runs, and as you said that does open the door for less talented writers to take their crack at the franchise, which is worrying. Quality should always come first, not quantity.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I know you didn't just call Grant Morrison less talented.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I know you didn't just call Grant Morrison less talented.

No, I didn't say that at all. What is this, the Republican response to Obama's prayer breakfast speech?

I didn't say he's less talented, but as was mentioned he wrote that tale very early in his career. He hadn't developed to the writer he is in modern day at that time, just as Moore and Gaiman hadn't developed into the writers they ended up being at the start of their writing careers. Experience matters, and definitely helps shape a natural talent for writing.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

You ever read his ZOIDS man? It's freaking weird.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

You ever read his ZOIDS man? It's freaking weird.

No, but that sounds like a bad 80's Transformers ripoff.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

They were transformers that turned into pills!

If you combine them together, you'd get really sleepy!

*Warning, watching Transformers Zoids could cause side effects. Most common ones seen were headaches, earaches, stomach aches, erectile dysfunction, loose bowels and death.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I know you didn't just call Grant Morrison less talented.

No. I called Peter Milligan less talented.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

#16 came out today, and it is so beautiful. No other comic has blown my mind and made me think like this comic has. It seriously changed my outlook on a lot of things.

It looks like Neil Gaiman's run is going to be issued as a new volume, so the old #17 is now #1. I think that's kind of revealing about how they will handle this book after Gaiman, but then again it goes right along with a lot of what Marvel does as far as relaunches.

Also, I was very annoyed that #16 was 5.99 instead of 4.99. Hey Marvel: Yeah, I'll pay it and will continue to buy the book. But I'll drop something else to make up for it. So you got an extra buck out of me, but you lost at least $3-4 because of it.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

#16 came out today, and it is so beautiful. No other comic has blown my mind and made me think like this comic has. It seriously changed my outlook on a lot of things.

It looks like Neil Gaiman's run is going to be issued as a new volume, so the old #17 is now #1. I think that's kind of revealing about how they will handle this book after Gaiman, but then again it goes right along with a lot of what Marvel does as far as relaunches.

Also, I was very annoyed that #16 was 5.99 instead of 4.99. Hey Marvel: Yeah, I'll pay it and will continue to buy the book. But I'll drop something else to make up for it. So you got an extra buck out of me, but you lost at least $3-4 because of it.

A relaunch? Eh. I'd prefer they retain the original numbering but I understand why they are going that route (the increased sales from a new number 1/relaunch issue; as well as each "book" having its own numbering.

Any word yet on when they'll release #17/#1? There seems to be at least a 2 month break between #16 (released today) and the eventual release of #17/#1... neither April or May have Miracleman releases that month.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Just said 2015. I'll read the final issue when I'm over this flu. My mind is just scrambled. I still don't understand the massive love this gets. It's good but it's far from a masterpiece and it's definitely not something that should never be touched again.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Just said 2015. I'll read the final issue when I'm over this flu. My mind is just scrambled. I still don't understand the massive love this gets. It's good but it's far from a masterpiece and it's definitely not something that should never be touched again.

It's "far from a masterpiece"? No, kiddo, it IS a masterpiece. It's the preeminent deconstruction of the superhero genre. Moore took two approaches to the superhero genre: a darker and more cynical approach in Watchmen, and a more hopeful, fantastic, but still honest approach through Miracleman.

Moore is essentially saying the idea of a superhero saving the world through nightly patrols and catching criminals is never going to fix the world. Nor is the world ever going to willingly fix itself (well, humanity more so than the world). Miracleman takes the position of a benevolent dictator because he sees that's the only way he can save the world. And by issue #16, that's far closer to a reality than it was in issue #1. Perhaps it's because you've read Miracleman after books like Authority or Ultimates, or Moore's own works like Watchmen and V for Vendetta, that you're not able to truly appreciate how groundbreaking the comic was in the mid to late 1980's. It really did change a lot of how other writers and artists approached their work.

Further, it's a phenomenally written story with deep and true characterization, high ideals and concepts expertly executed, and truly memorable plot lines.

To say the book isn't a masterpiece indicates you're likely not "getting it". I hate to pigeon hole like that, but you so easily writing it off indicates that may be the case.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

It's "far from a masterpiece"? No, kiddo, it IS a masterpiece. It's the preeminent deconstruction of the superhero genre. Moore took two approaches to the superhero genre: a darker and more cynical approach in Watchmen, and a more hopeful, fantastic, but still honest approach through Miracleman.

Moore is essentially saying the idea of a superhero saving the world through nightly patrols and catching criminals is never going to fix the world. Nor is the world ever going to willingly fix itself (well, humanity more so than the world). Miracleman takes the position of a benevolent dictator because he sees that's the only way he can save the world. And by issue #16, that's far closer to a reality than it was in issue #1. Perhaps it's because you've read Miracleman after books like Authority or Ultimates, or Moore's own works like Watchmen and V for Vendetta, that you're not able to truly appreciate how groundbreaking the comic was in the mid to late 1980's. It really did change a lot of how other writers and artists approached their work.

Further, it's a phenomenally written story with deep and true characterization, high ideals and concepts expertly executed, and truly memorable plot lines.

To say the book isn't a masterpiece indicates you're likely not "getting it". I hate to pigeon hole like that, but you so easily writing it off indicates that may be the case.

Weird, the url says TCB but this feels like Pornhub

I do "get it" and think it's great, I just don't think it's THAT good. Why has this been so hard for you guys to get? :\

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I do "get it" and think it's great, I just don't think it's THAT good. Why has this been so hard for you guys to get? :\

It's not a matter of "getting it." It's not a widely held opinion and it's one I strongly disagree with.

But like DiB said - you are coming at this having read all of the stories that this has inspired. So yeah, it's probably hard to understand what this story really means to modern comics. I do get it, actually. It's how I feel about the X-Men and most pre-modern superhero comics.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. I wouldn't try and force myself to like something that I don't like, so I wouldn't advise you bother trying either.

Back to Miracleman - I had an interesting conversation with the owner of the store I get my comics from. For the last maybe 4-5 issues of Miracleman he has actually been able to get the variants for me. This was huge, because I have, up to the point where he was able to start doing that, been watching eBay for deals because I'm trying to get all of them. He's a smaller store so he doesn't order anywhere near what have been the minimums to get the variants (which have been 25 on the low end - some of the earlier ones are 1:50, 1:75, and even a couple 1:100 and 1:200).

What he told me is that over the last few issues Marvel has been allowing retailers to order variants directly - something they rarely or never do for other books!

This was kind of shocking to me. It tells me that even fewer people are buying this book than I even thought. He told me that out of the 100 or so customers that get pulls from him, 2 get Miracleman (and I'm one). I already knew it was not a very good seller, but this puts it FAR below sales levels of books that are getting cancelled. Marvel has no choice but to let retailers buy them directly because they can't get rid of them otherwise!

It really seems that Marvel is totally screwed with this book. They can't sell them, and they can't afford to wholesale or discount them. They have to charge a lot for them to make up for the money spent on them, but no one wants to pay what Marvel is asking. Even the digital versions have yet (as far as I know) to be offered on sale in any capacity.

I'm almost sort of glad to see an expensive book fail so spectacularly, because I like the message it sends to publishers. I have no idea what Marvel can even do about this. If buyers aren't on board now they aren't going to start just because the series gets a new #1. Everyone knows the story is a continuation and it's not like #17 is a good jumping on point.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

It's not a matter of "getting it." It's not a widely held opinion and it's one I strongly disagree with.

But like DiB said - you are coming at this having read all of the stories that this has inspired. So yeah, it's probably hard to understand what this story really means to modern comics. I do get it, actually. It's how I feel about the X-Men and most pre-modern superhero comics.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. I wouldn't try and force myself to like something that I don't like, so I wouldn't advise you bother trying either.

Back to Miracleman - I had an interesting conversation with the owner of the store I get my comics from. For the last maybe 4-5 issues of Miracleman he has actually been able to get the variants for me. This was huge, because I have, up to the point where he was able to start doing that, been watching eBay for deals because I'm trying to get all of them. He's a smaller store so he doesn't order anywhere near what have been the minimums to get the variants (which have been 25 on the low end - some of the earlier ones are 1:50, 1:75, and even a couple 1:100 and 1:200).

What he told me is that over the last few issues Marvel has been allowing retailers to order variants directly - something they rarely or never do for other books!

This was kind of shocking to me. It tells me that even fewer people are buying this book than I even thought. He told me that out of the 100 or so customers that get pulls from him, 2 get Miracleman (and I'm one). I already knew it was not a very good seller, but this puts it FAR below sales levels of books that are getting cancelled. Marvel has no choice but to let retailers buy them directly because they can't get rid of them otherwise!

It really seems that Marvel is totally screwed with this book. They can't sell them, and they can't afford to wholesale or discount them. They have to charge a lot for them to make up for the money spent on them, but no one wants to pay what Marvel is asking. Even the digital versions have yet (as far as I know) to be offered on sale in any capacity.

I'm almost sort of glad to see an expensive book fail so spectacularly, because I like the message it sends to publishers. I have no idea what Marvel can even do about this. If buyers aren't on board now they aren't going to start just because the series gets a new #1. Everyone knows the story is a continuation and it's not like #17 is a good jumping on point.

True, however I expect the continuation/new issues to sell predominantly better, even at the same price, mainly because they'll finally conclude a story fans of the series have been waiting over 20 years for.

I also expect that eventually, Marvel will wise up and realize its better to sell more at a lower price than it is to sell less at a more expensive price. While that likely won't be the case with the individual issues, it certainly CAN be for the trade paperbacks.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Except I also do recognize what it did to the medium. Same way I recognize how Watchmen or The Matrix changed the mediums they were in. I really like this comic series and I realize now is that I think what it boils down to is I don't think anything should be restricted. I might not see the point in remaking Lord of the Rings but I don't think it should never happen. Nothing is too good not to be touched. I also have yet to read a comic I'd call a masterpiece. As for sales when I started buying Miracleman my store owner thanked me as he scanned it, he never does that for any comic. It's kind of upsetting that this isn't selling well because I've seen scans of the original and outside of the censoring the remastering is great, but, like it's been said, the price Is way too high even with the extras.