Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline

[DIrishB]

I was just about to ask you about the Age of Ultron Prelude. I was re-reading it last night and was wondering where you were going to put it haha.

Oh, you know me, as soon as I have some actual page numbers to use I'll be splitting it up accordingly, but the digital version is a different story (since it has FAR more pages than the printed version does... only because of the "motion" effect... or whatever you call it).

I'll try to pick up the TPB when it comes out, but based on history I'd assume I'll forget until a few months later... at which point I'll get it updated. So, let's say around June, just to be safe.

 

[Spoon_Wielder]

Lol. Once I pick up the printed version in the TPB I'll see which approach works better: the "whereabouts" explanation or breaking up the page numbers approach.

It's the same reason I haven't been able to break up the Avengers - Age of Ultron: This Sceptre'd Isle Infinite comic. Once I pick up the TPB for all of those I can lay those issues out correctly.

If you listen to the commentary for GOTG, James Gunn may provide an answer to this. When he describes Morag he says it's a planet that is completely covered in water, but every 500 years or so, the water goes down enough that you can walk around. That's why no one has grabbed the orb til now. He also says that when Starlord finds the orb he's actually on the planet when it stills a little dangerous to be walking around that's why he beats everyone there.

So it stands to reason that the Collector knows exactly where the orb is. But Gamora would have to wait until the planet clears to go and get it. Maybe she even goes and tries and can't get it because of the water. It would explain why she waits for Ronan to order her to get it from Starlord in the movie. It also means that placement of the scene in comic is probably right. Or at least COULD happen.

 

[vintsukka]

It's also important to remember "whereabouts" exact definition is

If you listen to the commentary for GOTG, James Gunn may provide an answer to this. When he describes Morag he says it's a planet that is completely covered in water, but every 500 years or so, the water goes down enough that you can walk around. That's why no one has grabbed the orb til now. He also says that when Starlord finds the orb he's actually on the planet when it stills a little dangerous to be walking around that's why he beats everyone there.

So it stands to reason that the Collector knows exactly where the orb is. But Gamora would have to wait until the planet clears to go and get it. Maybe she even goes and tries and can't get it because of the water. It would explain why she waits for Ronan to order her to get it from Starlord in the movie. It also means that placement of the scene in comic is probably right. Or at least COULD happen.

Yes, the Collector and Gamora knew exactly where the Orb was and that the water was lowering:

I just can't figure out how it can be completely inaccessible because of the sea. They don't have scuba gear it space?

 

[DIrishB]

If you listen to the commentary for GOTG, James Gunn may provide an answer to this. When he describes Morag he says it's a planet that is completely covered in water, but every 500 years or so, the water goes down enough that you can walk around. That's why no one has grabbed the orb til now. He also says that when Starlord finds the orb he's actually on the planet when it stills a little dangerous to be walking around that's why he beats everyone there.

So it stands to reason that the Collector knows exactly where the orb is. But Gamora would have to wait until the planet clears to go and get it. Maybe she even goes and tries and can't get it because of the water. It would explain why she waits for Ronan to order her to get it from Starlord in the movie. It also means that placement of the scene in comic is probably right. Or at least COULD happen.

Ah, ok. Well that answers that.

Yes, the Collector and Gamora knew exactly where the Orb was and that the water was lowering:

I just can't figure out how it can be completely inaccessible because of the sea. They don't have scuba gear it space?

Perhaps the seas on Morag are highly acidic, making scuba gear irrelevant. Perhaps there is highly dangerous underwater life that would prevent swimming (using scuba gear) to the underwater temple.

Perhaps the temple is guarded like a vault while its underwater, only opening up once every 300 years when it's above the surface.

There are a number of viable explanations for that.

 

[DIrishB]

So watching the final Agent Carter episode, it occurs on May 7-8, 1946. Its explicitly stated that its May 8, VE Day, therefore since The Iron Ceiling explicitly occurs during April 25 - 27, there must be a period of around 10 days where Ivchenko is debriefed by the SSR/US Government before the next episode "A Sin to Err".

 

[wyokid]

That's a weird spot for it. I'm already coming up with continuity problems. Could the oneshot happen first and that's why it was in the intro for the first episode?

 

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

In light of VE Day, how does the timeline line up with the news papers as seen on screen. I assume your timeline is a hybrid of VE Day and newspapers while counting days and nights?

Thanks again for your most excellent work.

 

[DIrishB]

Completely updated for all Agent Carter episodes.

That's a weird spot for it. I'm already coming up with continuity problems. Could the oneshot happen first and that's why it was in the intro for the first episode?

No. The One Shot does not happen first. Don't know why people keep asking that. The show producers explicitly said the One Shot happens AFTER the series, as well as the fact the One Shot leads directly into the SSR becoming SHIELD, so I'm not sure why people keep asking.

The series happens, then the One Shot picks up about 3 months after the series. Its easy to explain. Just assume Thompson and Sousa get promotions due to their direct involvement in catching Ivchenko, and thus no longer work in the office. More likely, Carter may have been transferred to a separate SSR branch (based on the close but noticeably separate looks to the sets of the SSR offices in the One Shot and series). Thus, since Carter is in a separate office, she's subject to the same misogyny she experienced at the original office in the series, with any stories of her exploits during the show being laughed off or ignored by small minded, misogynistic agents that work with her.

Its very simple. The One Shot occurs over a two day period, with Carter going on the mission on the first day (first night really), accomplishing it, and then the next day has her return to the office and begin to get chewed out by her superior, at which point Howard Stark calls and promotes her to head of SHIELD.

Therefore there's no way the One Shot happens beforehand, nor is there a way to insert the events of the TV series in between portions of the One Shot. The TV Series happens first (and spans about 3 weeks or so), the One Shot happens about 3 months later (based on Carter's superior mentioning she'd been there 3 months... presumably at that office after a transfer from the office she was in during the series).

And what continuity problems are you seeing?

In light of VE Day, how does the timeline line up with the news papers as seen on screen. I assume your timeline is a hybrid of VE Day and newspapers while counting days and nights?

Thanks again for your most excellent work.

The newspaper dates are ignored as they're merely props, and they don't line up or fit in with the dates explicitly given in dialogue, which overrides dates seen on props (a newspaper date seen in the Pilot shows a date of April 20 if I recall directly, then later on in the Pilot episode another newspaper date shows June 23 or something like that, even though its supposed to be the same day, and the June date certainly doesn't line up with the dates given in dialogue). Agent Carter gave us two firm dates through dialogue: April 27 in The Iron Ceiling and May 8 in Valediction (the April 20 newspaper date also doesn't line up with the later April 27 dialogue date because of the amount of days that are shown to pass in each episode between them, something like two weeks versus the one week required to reconcile the two). Its a simple process of counting backwards and forwards from those, especially since most episodes follow one after the other, with the exception of about 10 days between The Iron Ceiling and A Sin to Err. This is easily explainable as Ivchenko spending time being debriefed by the US government for about a week and a half before SSR got their chance to debrief and question him. Thats certainly a safe bet given the tensions between the US and Russia after WWII, and the onset of the Cold War.

 

[wyokid]

I flipped the dates in my head. Like the oneshot happened in the middle of the series. My bad.

 

[DIrishB]

I flipped the dates in my head. Like the oneshot happened in the middle of the series. My bad.

Ok.

But just to be clear, since I see that question asked repeatedly (in this thread and various other sites), the Agent Carter TV series happens first... then the Agent Carter One Shot occurs about 3 months later.

 

[marioxb]

Am I the only one dissapointed that they didnt have anything tying into the one shot at the end of yesterday's episode? I was really hoping they would. But we should assume that if there will be a season 2, it will be after the one shot, correct? I think they should show the one shot as the beginning of the next episode, sort of like how "The Consultant" uses Incredible Hulk footage.

 

[Orphix]

So watching the final Agent Carter episode, it occurs on May 7-8, 1946. Its explicitly stated that its May 8, VE Day, therefore since The Iron Ceiling explicitly occurs during April 25 - 27, there must be a period of around 10 days where Ivchenko is debriefed by the SSR/US Government before the next episode "A Sin to Err".

Ouch!

That means there is another contradiction by the MCU. Using the report in Agent Carter One-Shot, the date on that is the 14 of March, 1946.

But according to this series (which admittedly I haven't seen yet) the last episode takes place in May, 1946.

As an aside if you are interested in a catalogue of screen shots revealing certain dates you can go to this site

http://eatingcroutons.tumblr.com/mcu-timeline

It's pretty handy. Although I underside your suspicion of the 'prop'

 

[DIrishB]

Am I the only one dissapointed that they didnt have anything tying into the one shot at the end of yesterday's episode? I was really hoping they would. But we should assume that if there will be a season 2, it will be after the one shot, correct? I think they should show the one shot as the beginning of the next episode, sort of like how "The Consultant" uses Incredible Hulk footage.

I was, yeah. And as you said, I'm hoping that, if there is a Season 2, they use the One Shot as an opening for the first 15 minutes or so of the premiere, and the rest of Season 2 focuses on Peggy and Howard putting SHIELD together, while secretly being infiltrated by Hydra agents.

They could NOT use the One Shot, but that would leave a lot of viewers kind of in the dark regarding her being recruited for SHIELD. I suppose they could use the very end of the One Shot, with Peggy coming into the office the next day and being chewed out by her superior for taking on the mission, and Howard calling and hiring her for SHIELD. It would take only a couple minutes and set up everything for her transition to SHIELD.

Ouch!

That means there is another contradiction by the MCU. Using the report in Agent Carter One-Shot, the date on that is the 14 of March, 1946.

But according to this series (which admittedly I haven't seen yet) the last episode takes place in May, 1946.

As an aside if you are interested in a catalogue of screen shots revealing certain dates you can go to this site

http://eatingcroutons.tumblr.com/mcu-timeline

It's pretty handy. Although I underside your suspicion of the 'prop'

Yup. Essentially the approach I take is this:

1.) Dates shown onscreen with tags (to make it blatantly obvious for the audience, like in the opening of CA-TFA, the 965 AD date in Thor, the 1988 and 24 years later tags in GotG) all take precedence.

2.) Dialogue which gives specific dates is next, and so far it's never conflicted with the tag dates.

3.) Dates seen on props come last, and are often incorrect in regards to dialogue. These are ignored when they can't be made to work with the rest of the info.


Also, the date seen on that prop in the AC One Shot doesn't necessarily reflect the current time. It's entirely possible she had been working on a report from 5 months ago.

The dialogue indicates she'd been there for 3 months, likely moving very soon after the events of the series, hence my placing it in August of 1946 (3 months after May, 1946).

Appreciate the link, though; I'll pore over those and see if I can't narrow anything else down more.

This is what I mean by not putting much trust in dates seen on props:

191x-xx-xx
James Buchanan Barnes (Bucky Barnes) born

(The Winter Soldier)
[The Smithsonian exhibit contradicts itself here, giving two different dates for Barnes' birth.]

The same film shows both 1916 and 1917 as Bucky's birth year.

When it comes down to it, the prop makers aren't usually given specific dates to apply to the various newspaper, document/report props they make, etc, so irreconcilable problems are a guarantee to arise from that. Best bet is to use them when possible, but to also realize most of the time they don't align with the dates given in dialogue.

Whether that's because the prop department isn't given enough info beforehand, re-writes to the script during shooting or other last minute changes, etc, I'm not sure, but the end result is the same.

 

[vintsukka]

I was, yeah. And as you said, I'm hoping that, if there is a Season 2, they use the One Shot as an opening for the first 15 minutes or so of the premiere, and the rest of Season 2 focuses on Peggy and Howard putting SHIELD together, while secretly being infiltrated by Hydra agents.

I'm really hoping for that too. Maybe even shoot a short scene at the beginning, showing her being transferred, then segue into the opening of the One-Shot. After the One-Shot, transition to a few months/years later and pick up with them hard at work setting up S.H.I.E.L.D.

Also, the date seen on that prop in the AC One Shot doesn't necessarily reflect the current time. It's entirely possible she had been working on a report from 5 months ago.

Nope, her co-worker asks for "full analysis of all recent transmissions", and Carter hands him the paper shown. So we'll just have to ignore the date.


Interesting side note: When looking into this, I took a good look at that piece of paper. On the top, it says "To: S.H.I.E.L.D. - From: G.U.A.R.D.", but there's also the SSR logo on it. So some early version of S.H.I.E.L.D. was already up and running by then. Remember, at the end, Stark says "Tell her she'll be running S.H.I.E.L.D. with me", not a mention of setting it up from scratch. So presumably Stark already started S.H.I.E.L.D. before Peggy came along. This was news to me.

And what exactly is G.U.A.R.D.? Is it from the comics?

 

[DIrishB]

I'm really hoping for that too. Maybe even shoot a short scene at the beginning, showing her being transferred, then segue into the opening of the One-Shot. After the One-Shot, transition to a few months/years later and pick up with them hard at work setting up S.H.I.E.L.D.

I'd be ok with that.

Nope, her co-worker asks for "full analysis of all recent transmissions", and Carter hands him the paper shown. So we'll just have to ignore the date.

Yup.

Interesting side note: When looking into this, I took a good look at that piece of paper. On the top, it says "To: S.H.I.E.L.D. - From: G.U.A.R.D.", but there's also the SSR logo on it. So some early version of S.H.I.E.L.D. was already up and running by then. Remember, at the end, Stark says "Tell her she'll be running S.H.I.E.L.D. with me", not a mention of setting it up from scratch. So presumably Stark already started S.H.I.E.L.D. before Peggy came along. This was news to me.

Yeah, I suppose the best way to look at it is that, as a result of the events of the Agent Carter TV series, Howard realizes that SSR isn't really up to the job of the "new world" (that being a world with superhumans and fantastic abilities--his experiences with Cap & Red Skull during the war, and Dottie and Ivchenko afterwards, are probably a good motivator for that mindset after all). It's also likely due to the misogyny and added difficulties that creates for Carter, whose blatantly one of the most effective agents in the world, and while Howard realizes that he also realizes the small mindsets of most men at the time would prevent her from being utilized anywhere near her fullest potential (he is practical after all). So in his mind starting a new organization as soon as possible after the events of Agent Carter (the show) would be perfectly logical, and also a plus for the woman who saved his ass. Two birds, one stone... like I said, he's practical.

And what exactly is G.U.A.R.D.? Is it from the comics?

No idea. Can't find anything about it relating to Marvel comics (closest I can find is the Shi'ar Imperial Guard, which that certainly wasn't a reference to). Probably just something made up by the prop department. After all, most viewers don't pore over that stuff like we do.

 

[Orphix]

This is what I mean by not putting much trust in dates seen on props:



The same film shows both 1916 and 1917 as Bucky's birth year.

When it comes down to it, the prop makers aren't usually given specific dates to apply to the various newspaper, document/report props they make, etc, so irreconcilable problems are a guarantee to arise from that. Best bet is to use them when possible, but to also realize most of the time they don't align with the dates given in dialogue.

Whether that's because the prop department isn't given enough info beforehand, re-writes to the script during shooting or other last minute changes, etc, I'm not sure, but the end result is the same.

That prop anchronism particularly stinks - cos it has two different dates ON THE SAME PROP! Brilliant!!

 

[DIrishB]

That prop anchronism particularly stinks - cos it has two different dates ON THE SAME PROP! Brilliant!!

Lol.

Is it the same one? I thought there were two separate ones, each with its own date.

 

[Orphix]

Lol.

Is it the same one? I thought there were two separate ones, each with its own date.

Yeah it's Bucky's display piece in the museum. At the top in the title it gives his birth year and then in the main body of the text it gives another birth year!?!?

Someone needs to do a proof reading course!

 

[DIrishB]

Yeah it's Bucky's display piece in the museum. At the top in the title it gives his birth year and then in the main body of the text it gives another birth year!?!?

Someone needs to do a proof reading course!

Seriously, Mr. Feige, if you need someone for such purposes, I work cheap... and thoroughly.

 

[freshmaker]

Great interview with Will Corona Pilgrim about comic canon (and "inspired by") in the MCU.

"The collaboration is my favorite part, especially because that's how I was introduced to this process. I don't write in a vacuum. A lot of the executives – as well as the producers and the co-producers, and of course Kevin Feige and Lou Esposito – have their thoughts on what would be good stories. That's how we ended up having the wonderful Marvel One-Shots shorts program. All these different pieces of our canon continuity were all feeding off of each other."

"It can be confusing, and having my name on the different comics doesn't help matters, but we have "canon" comics that are considered official MCU canon stories. Then we have other comics that we consider more "inspired by."

The canon ones have that Marvel stamp and the trade dress has a cinematic wide screen feel. Whereas the inspired tie-ins are much more about having another fun adventure with the Avengers. They're not considered canonical though. Those are just fun adventures with the team because we want to tell more Avengers stories.

Things like this, the "Captain America: Homecoming" story we just did, and the "Guardians of the Galaxy" one I wrote, "Galaxy's Most Wanted," are fun adventures where we get to show off all the characters from the film in costume and in comic form. They don't really have a concrete place in the MCU timeline though."

"Yes ["Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude - This Sceptre'd Isle"]'s considered in canon. It's part of the wonderful timeline I mentioned earlier where we are spinning all these plates and trying to keep from dropping any of them."