Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline

I haven't watched it in a while, but is it at all possible that they might split up the oneshot? The action part happened before the show, but the part after where Stark calls and promotes Carter is after. That might not work with the dialogue, but I can't remember.
 
Iirc, no. I'm pretty sure the promotion scene's the next day
 
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It would also be a little too convenient if Bradley Whitford was replaced by Dooley. The entirety of Season 1 takes place with Dooley in charge, only for Whitford to come back and replace him on the day that Peggy gets the job at SHIELD.
 
It would also be a little too convenient if Bradley Whitford was replaced by Dooley. The entirety of Season 1 takes place with Dooley in charge, only for Whitford to come back and replace him on the day that Peggy gets the job at SHIELD.

They may explain that in the last episode of Agent Carter (perhaps Dooley gets promoted for solving and closing the Stark case), and Whitford's character is his replacement. And there's likely a gap of at least a few weeks or months between the end of the AC TV show and the One Shot, in which Howard comes to the conclusion the SSR isn't cutting it, and begins formulating how to put SHIELD together. Once he gets Dugan and say, some important politicians onboard, the events of the One Shot happen and Peggy is recruited to help run SHIELD. Whitford's character would've been working as Peggy's boss for at least a few weeks, and more likely months, at that point.
 
They may explain that in the last episode of Agent Carter (perhaps Dooley gets promoted for solving and closing the Stark case), and Whitford's character is his replacement. And there's likely a gap of at least a few weeks or months between the end of the AC TV show and the One Shot, in which Howard comes to the conclusion the SSR isn't cutting it, and begins formulating how to put SHIELD together. Once he gets Dugan and say, some important politicians onboard, the events of the One Shot happen and Peggy is recruited to help run SHIELD. Whitford's character would've been working as Peggy's boss for at least a few weeks, and more likely months, at that point.

I couldn't agree more. What I was saying that it would be weird to split up the One Shot, because they'd have to explain Whitford not being in the show, but somehow being in charge before and after the show. I mean it's not impossible...just odd to do.
 
I don't know if this is applicable to the timeline but the main Marvel Comics Loki visited the MCU (Earth-199999). In Young Avengers issue 8 Loki's multiuniversal passport was shown and it was revealed that he (and presumably the rest of the Young Avengers) had visited that universe on June 16th and 17th 2013. The actual event though, occurred off panel.
Young_Avengers_Vol_2_8_p.06.jpg
 
I don't know if this is applicable to the timeline but the main Marvel Comics Loki visited the MCU (Earth-199999). In Young Avengers issue 8 Loki's multiuniversal passport was shown and it was revealed that he (and presumably the rest of the Young Avengers) had visited that universe on June 16th and 17th 2013. The actual event though, occurred off panel.

Interesting.

It wouldn't affect the timeline any, since as you said, it happens off page for one. Second, even if there were actual pages showing them traveling to the MCU and meeting the film versions of those characters, that wouldn't necessarily make it MCU canon, but more likely "inspired by" canon.

Marvel have done a number of spin off comics that utilize the MCU character style/look/designs, characters, plots, etc, including advertising material for Audi, Burger King, etc, that resulted in MCU-inspired original comic book stories, as well as some that was just sold as your normal comic (The Fury Files) as opposed to an advertising or giveaway.

Luckily, to keep it simple, Marvel has since deemed what comics are canon to the MCU and which aren't. All the canon comics are listed in the second post on the first page (which serves as a guide to the timeline).

In this case, it's a 616 comic, but again, that doesn't make it canon to the MCU (even if it is in the 616).

However, that is interesting, you're definitely the first to point that out here. Likely just a case of the author (or maybe even editor, layout artist, etc) dropping some tongue-in-cheek gags in the book.
 
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Just a gag. I didn't enjoy the series, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't fun.
 
Second, even if there were actual pages showing them traveling to the MCU and meeting the film versions of those characters, that wouldn't necessarily make it MCU canon, but more likely "inspired by" canon.

But doesn't the fact that it gives the MCU universe number mean its not inspired by? Wouldn't the inspired by material have its own universe designations?
 
But doesn't the fact that it gives the MCU universe number mean its not inspired by? Wouldn't the inspired by material have its own universe designations?

While I get what you're saying, no, it doesn't. The writer or editor most likely put it in as a gag (I can't say for sure since I'm not them), not to be taken as an official extension of the MCU and be canon to the films, TV series, and official canon MCU comics. If it was meant to be official MCU canon, I'm sure it would've been mentioned by Will Corona Pilgrim (who writes the majority of the official canon MCU comics) on his Twitter account, since we've interrogated him thoroughly on what is and isn't MCU canon (that's how we cleared up what was official canon, and what was "inspired by" canon).

I promise you, it's just a joke or gag, not a serious attempt to make that an alternate dimension extension of the MCU. It's just a gag. I'd urge you to try and contact the writer of the issue and ask them, maybe on Twitter or Facebook, just for your own answer from the horse's mouth. It's definitely not MCU canon, though.
 
So after reading through Ant-Man - Prelude #1, there was no specific date/year given for when it takes place. Given that the issue shows Berlin is still separated by the Berlin Wall, it must occur before late 1989. Its also possible to at least guess a general timeframe based on Howard Stark's and Peggy's aged appearance. Howard was born in 1917, and Peggy in 1919. I'd assume Peggy is likely in her early to mid-60's, and Howard the same. That'd likely place the Ant-Man Prelude comic occurring sometime in the early to mid-1980's, which also works given Hank Pym's appearance in the comic (he's young, probably in his 30's). With the Ant-Man film set in present day (2015), that has the Prelude occurring around 30 years earlier, which works with Michael Douglas' age (he's 70 in real life but Hank may be a few years younger).

Either way, if I had to guess, its set in the mid-1980's. Hopefully the second issue has an epilogue scene that flashes forward to present day with a specific amount of time passing ("30 Years Later", presumably).

The Avengers - Age of Ultron - Prelude: This Sceptre'd Isle Infinite comic takes place from the ending of the first Avengers film, through the time period of Iron Man 3 and Thor - The Dark World (though nothing from those films is mentioned or shown) and right up through Captain America - The Winter Soldier (which the comic directly adapts scenes from, at least the final battle at the Triskelion, and the post credit scene with Pietro, Wanda, and Baron von Strucker ).

Unfortunately, since the Infinite Comics page numbers in the digital versions don't match up to the printed versions (because of the minor animation techniques they use), I have to wait until the Prelude Infinite comic is released in the Avengers - Age of Ultron trade paperback. Speaking of which, I also need to pick up the Guardians of the Galaxy Prelude TPB for the same reason, to break up the GotG - Prequel Infinite comic by page number.

So, for the next few months, those two will just be left with the ** marking. By March or April I should have those fully broken up by page number (since the Avengers - AoU Prelude TPB comes out in March, I think).
 
Agent Carter 1x05 made it clear that that episode starts on April 25, 1946. Peggy translates a cipher which states a meeting will be held on April 27 at 0800 (8am EST), and one of the other agents mentions that's less than two days from now. Given that its dialogue and not just a prop, I'm taking that as fact. Also, it does reinforce the original newspaper date of April 21 shown in the Pilot on the newspaper (I think, as long as each episode averages a day per episode, I'll have to go back and double check them to make sure it lines up correctly, but I can probably make it work).

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Nope, can't make it work. The date on the newspaper in the Pilot (April 21) and the date given in dialogue in Ep 5 leaves only a 4 day window. And since the Pilot itself occurs over 3 days (ending on April 24), that would then require squeezing Episodes 2-4 into a less than one day period, and that doesn't work either since Episode 2 occurs over at least two days (even placing 1x02 as starting the same day as the end of 1x01) still takes us into April 25 due to the blatantly shown day/night cycles shown throughout. Agents of SHIELD offers more leeway since they travel the world in the plane in Season 1, allowing for the fudging of days based on timezone differential, but with Agent Carter set in NYC, I can't use that trick here.

So, both newspaper dates in the Pilot have to be ignored (the April 21 one is close, but doesn't work, though a few days earlier likely would, and the June date seen later in the same episode definitely doesn't work).

I'm just going to back date from April 25 to establish exact dates, since the episodes seem to follow immediately one after the other (the next episode often picking up the next day, presumably).
 
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Hiya all,

Long time reader - first time contributor of this thread. I'm the chap who put together the Tiki-Toki MCU timeline (which I've seen has been discussed a few times). Thought I would stick my head above the parapet and really commend you guys on all the hard work you've put in. Really excellent stuff!

Really enjoying all the discussion about the MCU sources and canonicity.
 
Hiya all, Long time reader - first time contributor of this thread. I'm the chap who put together the Tiki-Toki MCU timeline (which I've seen has been discussed a few times). Thought I would stick my head above the parapet and really commend you guys on all the hard work you've put in. Really excellent stuff! Really enjoying all the discussion about the MCU sources and canonicity.

Hey man! Great work on the Tiki-Toki MCU timeline. I do have a few questions about some of the later placements on your version.

Mainly, why place Thor - The Dark World after Captain America - The Winter Soldier? Especially since Agents of SHIELD established Thor - The Dark World as happening first (based on the crossover episodes of AoS 1x08 "The Well" and AoS 1x16 "End of the Beginning" and 1x17 "Turn, Turn, Turn"). I've always wondered about that.

Also, you place Guardians of the Galaxy in 2013, but the film explicitly states it starts in 1988 when Quill is a child (the opening scene at the hospital where his mother dies and he's then taken by Yondu). There's a time jump of 26 years which would place the film in 2014, not 2013.

Anyway, just wondered. I'd love to hear your input on placements. If you have any suggestions please share them. Great work on the TT MCU timeline.
 
Hey man! Great work on the Tiki-Toki MCU timeline. I do have a few questions about some of the later placements on your version.

Mainly, why place Thor - The Dark World after Captain America - The Winter Soldier? Especially since Agents of SHIELD established Thor - The Dark World as happening first (based on the crossover episodes of AoS 1x08 "The Well" and AoS 1x16 "End of the Beginning" and 1x17 "Turn, Turn, Turn"). I've always wondered about that.

Also, you place Guardians of the Galaxy in 2013, but the film explicitly states it starts in 1988 when Quill is a child (the opening scene at the hospital where his mother dies and he's then taken by Yondu). There's a time jump of 26 years which would place the film in 2014, not 2013.

Anyway, just wondered. I'd love to hear your input on placements. If you have any suggestions please share them. Great work on the TT MCU timeline.

Heya,

The Thor question is a very good one - and one that doesn't have a particularly satisfactory answer - but blame Marvel Studios not me!

Basically I try to source my dates as much as possible from onscreen info and dialogue and use that as evidence to build my timeline (very much like yourself). The problem with that is the MCU starts to contradict itself pretty quickly (as you have also found out) and you have to start picking and choosing what bits of evidence you keep and which you discard.

I HATE that as I feel I am just making up my own timeline rather than finding the definitive one. But there you have it. I noticed that you have, quite reasonably, decided to create a timeline that makes the most narrative sense which is the most intelligent thing to do but it does mean you have to ignore certain bits of info (which is fair enough).

Back to the question. In CA:TWS we have the date given to us by the 'live' interview with Batroc in the Tangiers of the 11th October 2013 .
tumblr_na7zdt8dDN1r2j1bko1_1280.jpg


And with T:TDW we are given the date 14th November 2013 from Selvig's release form from the London hospital.
tumblr_nase2zw0mp1r2j1bko2_1280.jpg


So that is the 'logic' behind it. However thanks to AoS (which I have a massive issue with!!) it appears to that at least one, if not both, of the dates are wrong. My personal feeling is that the T:TDW one is correct (as it chimes with the release date) and and CA:TWS one is wrong...but who knows. I personally would like to think that films take priority over TV shows.

There is a strong argument to suggest that since The Avengers all the MCU dates should correlate with their release dates - even Ironman 3 as Tony Stark narrates his story as one giant flashback from May to Christmas.

As for the GotG stuff - I think that's in there (I'll have to check) during 2013 so that it hooks up with both the prelude comics and T:TDW. However so much stuff to remember my mind gets a bit frazzled!!!

Hope that helps :eek:)
Andrew
 
Yeah, when it comes to dates seen in props, I definitely will use them when it works. Sometimes, however, it simply doesn't.

Essentially, the film and TV show writers and the prop departments (that make the various newspapers and whatnot that reflect dates) don't pay anywhere near the amount of attention we do, as I'm sure you know. So while for the most part I use dates seen on props, when there's no way it can work I have to ignore them.

As for Guardians of the Galaxy, it definitely happens in 2014 based on the dates shown in the film itself. The Prelude/Prequel comics don't necessarily have to happen immediately before the film. It's possible those events occurred awhile beforehand (we know for a fact that's the case with the GotG Prequel comic that adapts the Thor - TDW post credits scene with them delivering the Aether to the Collector). I explain that as the Galaxy being a big place, and it taking time to track down the Orb, maybe a few months, maybe even a few years... after all I suspect Thanos has been tracking down the various Infinity Stones for quite a long time (that's only a presumption but likely a pretty safe one to make).

Also, Iron Man 3 you have taking place after Thor - TDW, CA-TWS, and GotG. That places it occurring about two and a half years after Avengers. I know the film is supposed to pick up 6 months after the events in Avengers, though can't remember off the top of my head if it's mentioned in the film itself (I think it is).

As for reconciling between the dates shown in CA-TWS and Thor-TDW, I'd say go with the date that's more obviously seen onscreen. The date in CA-TWS is more prominent than Thor-TDW. Furthermore, while I agree that the film's should come first in terms of deciding canon, I think a certain degree of judgement applies in terms of incorporating dates shown in the film. I always use onscreen dates when possible, especially if it's given as an onscreen tag establishing the date (like GotG did). I had to fudge Iron Man 2's "6 months later" date to make it fit in with Thor and Incredible Hulk (as a result of the retcon they did with Fury's Big Week), but it can still work assuming the process of Vanko building his initial suit took him about two and a half years (the idea being the opening scene occurs in 2008 at the ending of Iron Man 1, and is a montage of Vanko researching the arc reactor and building his suit from 2008 to late 2010, at which point the montage ends, and then the "six months later" tag can work with the Fury's Big Week retcon).

Obviously the filmmakers didn't intend that originally, but the canon comic retconned it so in an effort to make everything work, that's how I approach it.

Anyway, onscreen dates comes first, as does dialogue that establishes time passing (like the mention Avengers occurs a year after Thor, and thus also Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk based on their crossover elements). Anything shown in the TV shows comes as a next tier of canon. However, the TV shows and official MCU comics are canon, so must be taken into account. Thus, even though the onscreen dates in CA-TWS and Thor-TDW does seem to place CA-TWS first, it requires completely disregarding the middle portion of AoS to justify a date barely seen on a prop in Thor-TDW. Lastly, the canon comics are the bottom tier in terms of canon.

Generally, as you said, the release date for the film's generally works to place them on the timeline, though it's not exact, as we see with the IM2, IH, Thor retcon by Fury's Big Week. Even without the retcon the release date of IM2 occurred well over a year after the film was supposed to be set (which would've been in late 2008 or early 2009 on the in universe timeline) based on the "six months later" tag at the beginning (yet IM1 showed onscreen dates of May, 2008--once Tony had come home from being a hostage--and I believe Iron Man 2 showed onscreen dates of 2010, so that further proves my point that props aren't the most reliable means of deriving dates... though admittedly they're often the ONLY means to do so). Again, the filmmakers and prop department just don't pay as close attention as we do, OR they intentionally ignore those previous dates in an attempt to make the films as contemporary as possible.

It's important to hold to those dates as much as possible; but at the same time not be a slave to them when it creates a continuity issue or requiring you to ignore canon material to reconcile them.

Anyway, enjoying the conversation! Love analyzing this stuff.

Ultimately, it'll never be perfect, but we try to get it as close as possible in an overall narrative sense.
 
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Yeah, when it comes to dates seen in props, I definitely will use them when it works. Sometimes, however, it simply doesn't.

Essentially, the film and TV show writers and the prop departments (that make the various newspapers and whatnot that reflect dates) don't pay anywhere near the amount of attention we do, as I'm sure you know. So while for the most part I use dates seen on props, when there's no way it can work I have to ignore them.

Absolutely. I've seen the headache the first episode of Agent Carter has given you. I think, in the furture, when it comes to my timeline I am going to reference all 'evidence' even if it contradicts other events. In that sense it will become more of a discontinuity guide as well as a continuity guide. I know someone once did something similar with Dr Who many years ago.

As for Guardians of the Galaxy, it definitely happens in 2014 based on the dates shown in the film itself. The Prelude/Prequel comics don't necessarily have to happen immediately before the film. It's possible those events occurred awhile beforehand (we know for a fact that's the case with the GotG Prequel comic that adapts the Thor - TDW post credits scene with them delivering the Aether to the Collector). I explain that as the Galaxy being a big place, and it taking time to track down the Orb, maybe a few months, maybe even a few years... after all I suspect Thanos has been tracking down the various Infinity Stones for quite a long time (that's only a presumption but likely a pretty safe one to make).

Yep - you are no doubt right on all this. To be honest I have yet to pay as much attention on this as I should have...mainly because I have been scratching my head over other things.

Also, Iron Man 3 you have taking place after Thor - TDW, CA-TWS, and GotG. That places it occurring about two and a half years after Avengers. I know the film is supposed to pick up 6 months after the events in Avengers, though can't remember off the top of my head if it's mentioned in the film itself (I think it is).

Although this makes much more narrative sense than my timeline there is nothing specific that contradicts the evidence of IM3 not happening where I have put it. So I have left it there. I have heard many people say it happens 6 months after the Avengers but I can't find the evidence anywhere for it online. Although nothing is set in stone and open for change!

As for reconciling between the dates shown in CA-TWS and Thor-TDW, I'd say go with the date that's more obviously seen onscreen. The date in CA-TWS is more prominent than Thor-TDW. Furthermore, while I agree that the film's should come first in terms of deciding canon, I think a certain degree of judgement applies in terms of incorporating dates shown in the film. I always use onscreen dates when possible, especially if it's given as an onscreen tag establishing the date (like GotG did). I had to fudge Iron Man 2's "6 months later" date to make it fit in with Thor and Incredible Hulk (as a result of the retcon they did with Fury's Big Week), but it can still work assuming the process of Vanko building his initial suit took him about two and a half years (the idea being the opening scene occurs in 2008 at the ending of Iron Man 1, and is a montage of Vanko researching the arc reactor and building his suit from 2008 to late 2010, at which point the montage ends, and then the "six months later" tag can work with the Fury's Big Week retcon).

Obviously the filmmakers didn't intend that originally, but the canon comic retconned it so in an effort to make everything work, that's how I approach it.

I have to admit this whole thing is a nightmare. Even though you argue your point well with regards to CA:TWS and T:TDW you could easily argue it several other ways. We're both dangerously stumbling into personal opinion over fact. But there aren't any real facts due to Marvel Studios!!! Rest assured I always blame them!! Especially over AoS (even though it's ABC) which seems to spend most of its time being a promotional tool for the films most of the time.

Anyway, onscreen dates comes first, as does dialogue that establishes time passing (like the mention Avengers occurs a year after Thor, and thus also Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk based on their crossover elements). Anything shown in the TV shows comes as a next tier of canon. However, the TV shows and official MCU comics are canon, so must be taken into account. Thus, even though the onscreen dates in CA-TWS and Thor-TDW does seem to place CA-TWS first, it requires completely disregarding the middle portion of AoS to justify a date barely seen on a prop in Thor-TDW. Lastly, the canon comics are the bottom tier in terms of canon.

Generally, as you said, the release date for the film's generally works to place them on the timeline, though it's not exact, as we see with the IM2, IH, Thor retcon by Fury's Big Week. Even without the retcon the release date of IM2 occurred well over a year after the film was supposed to be set (which would've been in late 2008 or early 2009 on the in universe timeline) based on the "six months later" tag at the beginning (yet IM1 showed onscreen dates of May, 2008--once Tony had come home from being a hostage--and I believe Iron Man 2 showed onscreen dates of 2010, so that further proves my point that props aren't the most reliable means of deriving dates... though admittedly they're often the ONLY means to do so). Again, the filmmakers and prop department just don't pay as close attention as we do, OR they intentionally ignore those previous dates in an attempt to make the films as contemporary as possible.

It's important to hold to those dates as much as possible; but at the same time not be a slave to them when it creates a continuity issue or requiring you to ignore canon material to reconcile them.

Anyway, enjoying the conversation! Love analyzing this stuff.

Ultimately, it'll never be perfect, but we try to get it as close as possible in an overall narrative sense.

I think the main thing is to have a system and try to stick to it - which is definitely what you have done. Phase one was a piece of cake in comparison of all the difficulties with Phase Two and contradictions!! There is definitely a way to use sources and canonicity. Fans did it for Star Wars so surely we can come with some for MCU??!?!


Cheers mate
 
Absolutely. I've seen the headache the first episode of Agent Carter has given you. I think, in the furture, when it comes to my timeline I am going to reference all 'evidence' even if it contradicts other events. In that sense it will become more of a discontinuity guide as well as a continuity guide. I know someone once did something similar with Dr Who many years ago.

Interesting, that I'd like to check out. That's my one regret with the timeline is I didn't keep a separate post detailing the reasoning and specific dates or mentions of time passing between two entries, just as a reference source for people to find answers to why something is placed as it is.

Yep - you are no doubt right on all this. To be honest I have yet to pay as much attention on this as I should have...mainly because I have been scratching my head over other things.

That's understandable. I've been keeping a timeline for the MCU films ever since I saw the first Iron Man and noticed the May, 2008 date onscreen. It's a lot easier (well it was in Phase 1) to just update one film at a time with the occasional spin off comic or One Shot. Currently, balancing the films, TV shows, and comics is noticeably more difficult, lol. Luckily it doesn't have me pulling my hair out yet... well, not much. ;?



Although this makes much more narrative sense than my timeline there is nothing specific that contradicts the evidence of IM3 not happening where I have put it. So I have left it there. I have heard many people say it happens 6 months after the Avengers but I can't find the evidence anywhere for it online. Although nothing is set in stone and open for change!

I'm positive the 6 months later mention was made by Shane Black in an interview before the film was released. He basically gave a quick summary of Tony's state of mind, how he was suffering from PTSD after almost dying in Avengers, etc.

The fact he's still suffering from panic attacks, etc, six months later seems a bit more likely than it being two and a half years later and still be going through it. Of course, Tony doesn't like to talk about his feelings, but given his relationship with Pepper, and friendship with Rhodey (an experienced pilot who likely would recognize symptoms of PTSD), I'm not sure he'd be able to hide it for 2 1/2 years. It's certainly possible, though.

I wonder if it's in the script itself

I have to admit this whole thing is a nightmare. Even though you argue your point well with regards to CA:TWS and T:TDW you could easily argue it several other ways. We're both dangerously stumbling into personal opinion over fact. But there aren't any real facts due to Marvel Studios!!! Rest assured I always blame them!! Especially over AoS (even though it's ABC) which seems to spend most of its time being a promotional tool for the films most of the time.

Lol. Very true.

At the very least the crossover episodes for AoS indicate Thor-TDW occurs before CA-TWS. If you ignore the entire middle part of Agents of SHIELD, then you can raise those other approaches, but it seems to make more sense to ignore a quick flash of a prop date on a paper in Thor-TDW (even though it is the first "tier" of continuity, if you will) instead of 1/3 (or the entirety) of AoS's first season (in terms of the timeline). Though from a critical perspective, at least for the first 10 episodes or so of AoS, from a critical perspective I can understand ignoring it.



I think the main thing is to have a system and try to stick to it - which is definitely what you have done. Phase one was a piece of cake in comparison of all the difficulties with Phase Two and contradictions!! There is definitely a way to use sources and canonicity. Fans did it for Star Wars so surely we can come with some for MCU??!?!


Cheers mate

Indeed! Really glad to have you on the forum, been dying to talk the MCU timeline with you since I discovered your timeline a couple years back (maybe longer, can't remember). The timeline here is a group effort, everyone's input counts, so anytime you think something should be placed differently, definitely post.
 

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