Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 3)

Okay so things are escalating a bit here. Everyone has made their cases thoroughly, I don't think anyone's mind is getting changed. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and passion but I don't see a need for further debate here. A vote is happening, I am going to give it 24 hours and we'll move forward based on the results.
 
Pro Bot said:
Lol, no XD. You know that makes no sense.
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I get that it's no way near MCU canon. But your reasoning states that if something is intended to be in the MCU timeline, it should or can be considered canon. That's exactly what Sony has been doing (and failing to).
 
Starvel said:
Okay so things are escalating a bit here. Everyone has made their cases thoroughly, I don't think anyone's mind is getting changed. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and passion but I don't see a need for further debate here. A vote is happening, I am going to give it 24 hours and we'll move forward based on the results.
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dw starvel, on my part, i'm debating in a calm way. I'm not agitated. It's just fun to debate.
 
Megatron said:
that's still imply that that guidebook isn't perfect...
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Mate....I'm not arguing that it's perfect. I'm arguing there's more official material dictating what is canon and what is not than the encyclopedia
 
Slyonic said:
I get that it's no way near MCU canon. But your reasoning states that if something is intended to be in the MCU timeline, it should or can be considered canon. That's exactly what Sony has been doing (and failing to).
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i never sayed it should. I sayed we have to ANALIZE it before confirming them to be not canon.

I sayed that avengers age of ultron Episode 0 and spy like us aren't canon for example.
 
Slyonic said:
Mate....I'm not arguing that it's perfect. I'm arguing there's more official material dictating what is canon and what is not than the encyclopedia
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the problem is still that the majoprity of them totally left out the comics, even the red stamp ones. So it's only the encyclopedia or some other rare documents that talk about them. But never specify if they're canon or not. And again, some comics doesn't have red stamps on the cover, so they fall more on the inspired by side. And still they were stated to be canon, am i right? Wich means that other inspired by comics have the potential to be canon too.

That's soft canon.

(btw i hope you're not nervous or anything. I'm just discussing, we're a community after all)
 
Megatron said:
the problem is still that the majoprity of them totally left out the comics, even the red stamp ones. So it's only the encyclopedia or some other rare documents that talk about them. But never specify if they're canon or not. And again, some comics doesn't have red stamps on the cover, so they fall more on the inspired by side. And still they were stated to be canon, am i right? Wich means that other inspired by comics have the potential to be canon too.

That's soft canon.

(btw i hope you're not nervous or anything. I'm just discussing, we're a community after all)
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I'm not arguing about the definition of soft canon. Soft canon only applies when it's canonicity has not been explicity stated. In the case of the "inspired by" comics, it has not only been stated by it's creator, but has also been corroborated by official material defining canonicity.
 
Slyonic said:
I get that it's no way near MCU canon. But your reasoning states that if something is intended to be in the MCU timeline, it should or can be considered canon. That's exactly what Sony has been doing (and failing to).
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Now, I'm not even discussing "Inspired By" because I think we both understand and agree with the other to an extent on our understandings of that.

That movie (Venom: The Last Dance) is not only not part of the MCU on a practical level, but it's definitely not intended to be in the MCU timeline. If you think it is, then... you've lost all credibility honestly because that's totally absurd. Especially since it has the 10 year old Peter Parker in it from the leaks, and Venom: Let There Be Carnage, Spider-Man: No Way Home, Morbius, and Madame Web clearly show them to be completely separate universes. Sony are quite happy to show it is a distinct universe. Yes, the trailer connects to the MCU. It also shows that the MCU is a different universe and timeline in-universe, which is commonsense. The Inspired By comics don't do this and just treat themselves as if they're part of that world.

just because there's connections doesn't mean they're intended to be the same timeline. They are both canon to the multiverse but that's not the point because you're saying that it's made to be the same timeline which is silly and you know it. Comparing Venom to MCU "Inspired By" comics is silly because even if the Inspired By comics aren't canon, they're still part of the franchise. That's the important distinction.
 
Slyonic said:
I'm not arguing about the definition of soft canon. Soft canon only applies when it's canonicity has not been explicity stated. In the case of the "inspired by" comics, it has not only been stated by it's creator, but has also been corroborated by official material defining canonicity.
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so u agree that the other comics has the potential to be canon. Since other Red stamp and not red stamp are.
 
Pro Bot said:
Now, I'm not even discussing "Inspired By" because I think we both understand and agree with the other to an extent on our understandings of that.

That movie (Venom: The Last Dance) is not only not part of the MCU on a practical level, but it's definitely not intended to be in the MCU timeline. If you think it is, then... you've lost all credibility honestly because that's totally absurd. Especially since it has the 10 year old Peter Parker in it from the leaks, and Venom: Let There Be Carnage, Spider-Man: No Way Home, Morbius, and Madame Web clearly show them to be completely separate universes. Sony are quite happy to show it is a distinct universe. Yes, the trailer connects to the MCU. It also shows that the MCU is a different universe and timeline in-universe, which is commonsense. The Inspired By comics don't do this and just treat themselves as if they're part of that world.

just because there's connections doesn't mean they're intended to be the same timeline. They are both canon to the multiverse but that's not the point because you're saying that it's made to be the same timeline which is silly and you know it. Comparing Venom to MCU "Inspired By" comics is silly because even if the Inspired By comics aren't canon, they're still part of the franchise. That's the important distinction.
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I know the leaks say
there's a 10 year old Peter
, but as far as I know nothing in the trailer indicates that's actually a part of the movie.

And what kind of nonsense is me "losing all my credibility" when all I've done is stating facts? Lol

There's literal proof Sony tried to make Venom and Madame Web part of the MCU. Just because they failed or Marvel Studios forced them into a corner of their own does not mean Sony never intended it to be MCU. Sony has done everything in their power to confuse audiences into thinking those movies are part of the MCU, but Marvel Studios never let them.

I agree with you however that it's important to note those movies are not part of the franchise, whereas the inspired by comics are.

Again, I'm not arguing the Sony movies are part of the MCU timeline. I'm just applying the logic of "something was intended to be part of this timeline and should therefore be canon" to the Sony movies and pointing out it's is a faulty logic. No need to attack my "credibility" or "common sense" and come at me with all this hyperbole to try and make a point about something that's not even at the core of the discussion.
 
Slyonic said:
I know the leaks say
there's a 10 year old Peter
, but as far as I know nothing in the trailer indicates that's actually a part of the movie.

And what kind of nonsense is me "losing all my credibility" when all I've done is stating facts? Lol
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The trailer shows a young child and matches perfectly with the plot details of said leak regarding symbiote coming to Earth and a team trying to kill them. The plot lines up perfectly with it.

Slyonic said:
There's literal proof Sony tried to make Venom and Madame Web part of the MCU. Just because they failed or Marvel Studios forced them into a corner of their own does not mean Sony never intended it to be MCU. Sony has done everything in their power to confuse audiences into thinking those movies are part of the MCU, but Marvel Studios never let them.
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It's clear that Sony are not trying to show them as literally being in the MCU. When these movies have very clear proof in their story that they take place in an alternate universe and is set in a separate franchise, it is clearly not comparable to a story that sets itself in the same universe that is part of the same franchise.

Slyonic said:
I agree with you however that it's important to note those movies are not part of the franchise, whereas the inspired by comics are.

Again, I'm not arguing the Sony movies are part of the MCU timeline. I'm just applying the logic of "something was intended to be part of this timeline and should therefore be canon" to the Sony movies and pointing out it's is a faulty logic. No need to attack my "credibility" or "common sense" and come at me with all this hyperbole to try and make a point about something that's not even at the core of the discussion.
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I apologise for coming off so harshly, that was rude and wrong and I admit that it was a bit mean. I'm sorry.

However, you making comparisons to unconnected movies just because they don't contradict is a strawman. If someone thinks the MCU comics are canon because they don't contradict and are intended to be set in that universe, that doesn't mean that they think Ghost Rider and Venom are canon, and they aren't being inconsistent by thinking that way either. That is my point.
 
Slyonic said:
Which comics are you talking about?
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Ok. I'll give u a full list of the non stamp comics on this timeline. (which if u want to be sure, You can look at the covers on read comics online. You'll find out they don't have the red stamp)
  • Eternals - The 500 Year War: Infinite #1-7
  • Captain America - The First Avenger: First Vengeance #1-4
  • Iron Man - I Am Iron Man! #1-2
  • Iron Man 2 - Public Identity #1-3
  • Iron Man 2 - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. #1
  • Captain America - The Winter Soldier: Infinite #1
  • Guardians of the Galaxy - Prequel Infinite #1
  • Avengers - Age of Ultron: Prelude - This Scepter'd Isle: Infinite #1
  • Jessica Jones #1
  • Ant-Man - Scott Lang: Small Time: Infinite #1
  • Doctor Strange - Prelude: The Zealot - Infinite #1
  • Captain America - Civil War - Prelude: Infinite #1
Now even if i don't trust words that were made on tweets or somewhere else, we'll use your statements and a bit of logic.

the presence of this comics in the timeline goes against this statement

Slyonic said:
The "Inspired by" comics do not contain the red stamp and are thus unsactioned.
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You now could say that the creator sayed their canon, or even the guidelines. Like you sayed here. And Pro Bot prooved

Slyonic said:
The writer, Will Corona Pilgrim, states "inspired by" comics are not MCU Canon, and thus, not authentic.
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so we can go with 2 roads.

  1. the 1st claim was wrong and so only the comics with a red stamp can be canon.
  2. the fact that not 1 or 2 but 24 (28 if we consider that first vengeance was released as a 8 part digital comic) non red stamp comics can be canon means that other red stamp comics have the potential to be canon.
Since as you say the words of a creator have more relevance than the ones from a creator group, it leds to 1 solution.

The comics have the potential to be canon. (which means that they need further study to tell if they are canon or not)

So even if we go with the creator's statement we reach the same conclusion.
 
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Megatron said:
Ok. I'll give u a full list of the non stamp comics on this timeline. (which if u want to be sure, You can look at the covers on read comics online. You'll find out they don't have the red stamp)
  • Eternals - The 500 Year War: Infinite #1-7
  • Captain America - The First Avenger: First Vengeance #1-4
  • Iron Man - I Am Iron Man! #1-2
  • Iron Man 2 - Public Identity #1-3
  • Iron Man 2 - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. #1
  • Captain America - The Winter Soldier: Infinite #1
  • Guardians of the Galaxy - Prequel Infinite #1
  • Avengers - Age of Ultron: Prelude - This Scepter'd Isle: Infinite #1
  • Jessica Jones #1
  • Ant-Man - Scott Lang: Small Time: Infinite #1
  • Doctor Strange - Prelude: The Zealot - Infinite #1
  • Captain America - Civil War - Prelude: Infinite #1
Now even if i don't trust words that were made on tweets or somewhere else, we'll use your statements and a bit of logic.

the presence of this comics in the timeline goes against this statement




You now could say that the creator sayed their canon, or even the guidelines. Like you sayed here. And Pro Bot prooved




so we can go with 2 roads.

  1. the 1st claim was wrong and so only the comics with a red stamp can be canon.
  2. the fact that not 1 or 2 but 24 (28 if we consider that first vengeance was released as a 8 part digital comic) non red stamp comics can be canon means that other red stamp comics have the potential to be canon.
Since as you say the words of a creator have more relevance than the ones from a creator group, it leds to 1 solution.

The comics have the potential to be canon. (which means that they need further study to tell if they are canon or not)

So even if we go with the creator's statement we reach the same conclusion.
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All the comics you have listed have red stamps, except for Jessica Jones and The Eternals. The Eternals came out after the red stamp was abandoned. The Jessica Jones one is a weird one, since we know MCU TV and movie canonicity was a little weird back then.
 
Slyonic said:
All the comics you have listed have red stamps, except for Jessica Jones and The Eternals. The Eternals came out after the red stamp was abandoned. The Jessica Jones one is a weird one, since we know MCU TV and movie canonicity was a little weird back then.
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Okay. Then Help me find the red stamp on these comics.
 
Slyonic said:
Those are the digital only issues. In both the printed prelude collection and the omnibus the have the red stamp.
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omnibus collections aren't reliable, I made the example of buffy. Also look at this:

2024-06-03 (23).png
so even on digital they have the red stamp.

Also the first vengeance picture is the republished comic. It has 4 issues not 8.
 
Megatron said:
omnibus collections aren't reliable, I made the example of buffy. Also look at this:

View attachment 2204
so even on digital they have the red stamp.
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Man, you do you. If you believe them to be canon, believe them to be canon. Add them to your own timeline, whatever. But I've clearly stated why we shouldn't clutter this timeline with stuff that's been explicitly confirmed non-canon by it's creator and other relevant material, made by Marvel. I honestly couldn't care less about what other franchises did or didn't do regarding canonicity. That has no bearing on Marvel's canonicity at all.
 
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