Okay so this gonna be long bare with me here cause I don't think anything I say here has a chance of making anyone 100% happy including myself. First I want to say that nothing is getting removed, details and the like get retconned or corrected all the time but that doesn't make the entire project retconned. Unlike the book we do not focus solely on the MS Movies, Shows and assorted extras that the book covered and despite the details that may be changed I don't plan on entirely removing anything that is confirmed canon including comics with the red seal. We do not decide what is or is not canon and despite our and my own personal feelings those are not enough to remove something from this timeline. All official media and content is used to make this timeline and everyone here has done amazing work piecing it all together to make the most accurate timeline on the internet (maybe a little boasty to say this but I think it's true). A lot of people take pride in the work they put in here and they absolutely should there is no doubt about it. But this book is official. It is not the comments of some director that's taking his best guess or the timeline on a streaming app. This is official material published by Marvel Studios and like it or not is correct. Personally there are placements I don't like and on my own personal separate timeline haven't changed (specifically Love and Thunder and Fury's Big Week).
Now I'm going to try and respond to everyone that commented while I was gone.
I agree with mr.
@Pro Bot. They probably, made the timeline with only the movies and disney+ series since, they are what the casual people will watch. Remember that the A Funny Thing Happened on the way to thor's hammer one-shot wasn't included.
Every other One-Shot was included so I don't see the relevance of one getting missed. As pointed out no comics with the Red Seal are also missing. While I think comics weren't considered either because as you said casual people won't know it or if its because Marvel Studios doesn't care is up for debate but frankly either way it doesn't matter. Both were released as official products of the MCU, both will be included possibly with some placements changed which is nothing new, that happens frequently here.
I gotta be honest here, I've been following this timeline for like 10 years, but if we go the route of throwing our decade plus work and research out the window to make this into a "Disney canon timeline book" copy (which I know a lot of us have wanted to do basically since the Disney+ timeline came out), I might have to bow out.
This timeline has serious history of dozens and dozens of people doing the research and arguing and debating and nitpicking and reasoning and collaborating than the author of this book could have ever done. For 12 years.
Yeah, this book is cool. And maybe even a neat reference guide for when we're stuck on something. But I believe in this timeline and that we've put more work into it than anyone could have ever done.
So I hope we don't go this direction that I feel that we are heading in
I understand. But hate it or like it this is a Disney owned and Marvel Studios run multi-media franchise. Little tweaks and retcons happen to make stuff line up better. We are not throwing out a decade+ of work to make this a copycat, we are updating with the most relevant information given, information specifically from an official timeline. I do hope no one bows out because of this because you're right the people here put more work in than anyone at Marvel Studios. But we are not Marvel Studios, the MCU is not ours, we are not the authority.
It's also DIrishB's legacy. I feel like it's more about respecting him than adhering to Disney.
I'm strongly against removing Fury's Big Week based on theoretical retcons.
I want to make clear Fury's Big Week is official material, it's not getting removed. I'd say even if the Leader's story in BNW specifically contradicts the comic outright and fully it shouldn't get removed. I assume it's just the order of events that occur in Fury's Big Week, or how long the gaps between events are.Honestly, I don't mind moving The Incredible Hulk/Iron Man 2/Thor to 2010, but removing Fury's Big Week, which is explicitly canon and made to be distinguished from non-canon "inspired" comics, is not something I'd be interested in. It's sacred canon for me. It's like removing the Ashoka novel or Kanan
I assume it's just the order of events that occur in Fury's Big Week, or how long the gaps between events are.
Honestly, I don't mind moving The Incredible Hulk/Iron Man 2/Thor to 2010, but removing Fury's Big Week, which is explicitly canon and made to be distinguished from non-canon "inspired" comics, is not something I'd be interested in. It's sacred canon for me. It's like removing the Ashoka novel or Kanan comics from the Star Wars timeline.
Retcons ≠ non-canon, and that's assuming this even counts.
The Star Wars stuff is a good point here. The Bad Batch straight up and in some cases stupidly retconned the Kanan comics, but this doesn't mean the entire comic didn't happen and should be removed from canon. Parts of the story were updated for better or worse (IMO worse like cmon they kept the name of the planet, the names of the clones, how hard is it to use the right colors for lightsaber, armor and weather damn). Very Important here: RETCONS DO NOT MEAN NON-CANON. Until such a time as the MS says these comics never happened they happened like it or not, some events may be updated is all.
Well using another universe as a Surce Isn't right for me, in what if there was a change in the distant Past, Isn't that Easy, that change could make some events to switch Place. Anyway for me the comics, novels, books, series and movies > info books. The informations in the books as to be backed up by the other products, not Just the movies or not Just the series. But it's Just how I see It.
I get that but the digital media like Movies, Shows, Specials, Short films, Web shorts is just as much a part of the MCU as the Novels, Comics and Info books like this. I mean it even has an in-universe character narrating parts of it. The information in these books only has to be backed up by Marvel Studios to be official, not represented on screen or page. I will admit using solely What If as a source I dont think is valid. But the Official Timeline is and the fact it lines up with What If just shows it a little more.
No matter which way you look at it, the timeline flubbed on the Fury's Big Week thing.
Everything else was fairly spot on. I think we can't take Fury's Big Week out of the timeline over some weird chronological disorganization in a timeline book. That's not major enough.
There is no Chronological Disorganization, this is the official organization and an official timeline placement by Marvel Studios is absolutely major enough to change the place of a comic but not enough to remove all of its events from canon.
definitely agree, especially with the discrepancies already existing between the comic and the what if? episode, alongside the fact that episode 1 of what if? also has things happen out of order that otherwise wouldn't have if it weren't another universe, i don't think the book can be taken 100% quite yet
Discrepancies between the comic and What If for sure yeah those are debatable. Discrepencies between the comic from 10+ years ago and the Offical Timeline released last week...well I think the wrong book is being looked at as not being taken as 100%.
These are both great points that I agree with fully. There are obviously errors and contradictions, and we don't throw out Homecoming just because Toomes said "8 years", even though there's elements of the movie that don't make sense with it being a 4 year gap.
We don't have to throw Fury's Big Week out, but I think this timeline should be changed to reflect the order of events in the timeline book/What If.
I think the some of the most important factors are:
Now this comment was made after I started this essay. Both are right, a retcon doesn't mean everything in the comic is wrong however clearly new information has been presented and we should adapt. I'm so glad you brought up the "8 Years" stuff because that is something presented straight up in a movie that is wrong because that shit happens in a franchise as massive as this with some many working pieces and different creatives making it. The timeline has officially changed and will more than likely officially change again and we cannot live in the past and listen to the oldest information possible otherwise there is a lot that needs to be moved: For example The Incredible Hulk released in 2008 and originally the film was intended to be placed there as shown by email dates and documents. That was updated as the universe grew
1) Is it logically coherent? Does it fit with the internal timelines of the films? Yes.
2) Is there more evidence for it than against it? Yes. 2 vs 1.
3) Is the evidence more reliable (presented within continuity, recent, official)? This is debatable - I can see people landing on both sides here. FBW is the only thing that actually shows the events as they occur in the main MCU continuity, so it has that going for it. But the timeline book (even though it's just a reference book) and the What If episode (even though it's in an alternate timeline that branched off years prior) are more recent and have closer ties to Marvel Studios (well, at least What If does).
These factors are brilliant I think but there are comments I want to make on them. The First one is largely the most important, as long as something doesn't break the timeline (8 Years I'm looking at you) then there is no reason we shouldn't update to fit as things logically change. Did we not recently move the entire placement of The Winter Soldier to a brand new season, a placement that this book itself agrees with?
The Second one I largely agree with but that ties into the Third One. More evidence does not mean better but the reliability of that evidence does. If we're taking into account everything Marvel official publishes as part of the MCU we have to take it all. Movies, Red Seal Comics, Novels, Info Books, it all weaves this story together like the strands of the Sacred Timeline but because of that there are disruptions that as time goes on gets updated or corrected.
At the very least, the book seems to be trustworthy and a good fit overall (despite some typos I've seen). And I think it reflects how Marvel Studios views MCU chronology. Disney+ changed its timeline to match the book. If they ever revisit Fury's Big Week again (somewhat unlikely), I think they would probably align the events with how they are in the book. (I also think they'd probably make some errors though, causing us to debate over contradicting information yet again
Finally this. This book by all intents and purposes seems trustworthy and like 95% of it lines up with us anyways. Nothing brakes the timeline or doesn't have logic behind its placement. If there was something in here that was like the 8 Years thing that was so obviously logically wrong then yeah we shouldn't follow that.
In conclusion: If we are going to take everything and fit it into a single cohesive timeline then we have to take everything, not just stuff we think is trustworthy or correct. We take the films with the YouTube Shorts and TikToks, we take the comics with the novels and we absolutely take the Marvel Studios Official Timeline. I'm surprised there isn't more celebrating here, do you guys not see how right our timeline is? And we fit all the shit Marvel Studios even wouldn't and still got it so right. There are a few minor changes and updates, something that frequently happens here and will continue to happen. This is not the "How I feel about the MCU Timeline" this is the most accurate MCU timeline in existence and ignoring the Official Timeline because is an absolutely foolish move. Anyone is welcome to keep their own timelines separately and organize it as they wish but on here everything that is officially a product of the MCU will be taken into account and used. Inconsistencies sorted out and most importantly updated and new information releases.
