Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)

2chainzrules24 said:
Endgame spoilers follow.

So after seeing Endgame, here are my thoughts on the timeline(s) moving forward. /u/pixelcraftables posted this over at /r/marvelstudiosspoilers and I largely agree with this. I would say the prime MCU timeline has stayed entirely intact from what was shown in the movie; the scenes set in the 70's, The Avengers in 2012, Thor: The Dark World in 2013, and the events on Vormir in 2014 can all be considered canonical. The 70's scene obviously could have just happened and we haven't seen it before, just as any other flashback scene happens in any other movie; Tony takes the space stone and within seconds, Steve returns from the end of the film and puts it back. The sequence from Thor: The Dark World could have happened off-screen; Rocket takes the reality stone from Jane as Thor talks to Frigga and grabs Mjolnir and within seconds, Steve returns from the end of the film and gives the reality stone back to Jane and puts Mjolnir back. Natasha and Clint go to Vormir in 2014 and retrieve the soul stone and within seconds, Steve from the end of the film returns it.

The scene set in The Avengers in 2012 is a little more complicated, but I still feel as if this could be considered canonical. Banner retrieves the time stone, an event that would have happened entirely off-screen in The Avengers anyway. The stuff that happens with the space and mind stones could have happened off-screen as well. Loki could take the space stone and could have been restrained by the Avengers again before the schwarma scene and Steve taking the mind stone makes sense within the timeline. Within seconds, Steve from the end of the film returns and puts the time and mind stones back.

The end of the film, with Steve returning to the past to stay with Peggy and returning as an old man, completes the loop, I feel. This way, all of the past continuity is at least somewhat maintained, which is a good thing because my biggest fear going into Endgame was that they would use time traveling in such a way that would negate the previous 21 films and make them all for nothing.

The events of Guardians of the Galaxy 2014, however, I feel is a completely new timeline; if Thanos and his army are brought forward in time and snapped before even Guardians of the Galaxy is over, the entire flow of events is kind of ruined. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no way these events can happen in the prime MCU timeline. This is the only necessary branch in the timeline, I feel.

Regarding Spider-Man: Far From Home: so now I feel they can go two ways with this film: either it's set before Infinity War or they somehow explain that Peter and his entire class are able to stay intact and stay in the same education and grade level, despite five years having passed for the rest of the world. In the trailer, Peter's date of birth and the current year are blurred out intentionally, and now it will be interesting to see whether they insert 2017 or 2023 into the current year spot.

Regarding Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: this is by far my biggest problem with the film; it almost completely disregards Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. while at the same time trying to bridge the gap between the ABC shows and the films by including Edwin Jarvis in the 70's scene. I'm trying to reconcile Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s fifth season, which shows that time travel does affect the future, by saying that the White Monolith and the Quantum Realm are two different mechanisms of time travel, therefore they use two different versions of time travel (convoluted, I know, but I can't think of any other explanation at the moment). As far as season 6 is concerned, I'm assuming they will just try to explain it as the entire team got lucky from the snap; otherwise, it would almost seem like the entire show would no longer be canon and would instead be set in its own branch of the timeline, similar to the events of Guardians of the Galaxy in Endgame.

Regarding the Disney+ shows: I feel like these are all over the place now. Steve gives Sam the shield at the end of the film, setting up The Falcon and the Winter Soldier as the ongoing adventure of the present day Sam-Captain America, who teams up with Bucky. The Loki series has been described as a journey through the MCU's history, setting it in the past, which fits in with the fact that Loki was not revived by the Stark Gauntlet (at least not on-screen) in Endgame. WandaVision is the odd one out; according to Elizabeth Olsen, the concept art for WandaVision shown at the Disney+ shareholders event features Wanda and Vision in the 1950's. This, to me, says that the show begins with Wanda searching for a way to bring Vision back and ends up in the 1950's once again through the Quantum Realm. If this is the case, I'm hoping that they treat the series pretty similarly to Endgame because the 1950's is pretty open in the timeline right now and it might actually be very interesting to have a series set almost entirely in the past that wasn't known about yet.
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Endgame Spoilers:
Bruce explicitly mentions that their interference with the past doesn't change the timeline, but rather creates a new timeline. So none of the time travel scenes are canonical within the main timeline. This makes this whole thing much more simple in my opinion, because the entire timeline is left intact, with other timelines now branching off of it.
 
Not chipped in for a while, my thoughts on the Endgame placement
In terms of the time travel, like AoS it would create an alternate timeline. I wouldn't place these moments in the timeline however. It worked for AoS because it was in the future and so if watching the timeline doesn't confuse things.

Because the events of time travel were eventually undone by Cap, it wouldn't make sense to place them in. If you were watching the timeline and they were there it would make little to no sense. The only one that would remain is Cap with Peggy at the end (though this would break the timeline unless old man Cap was hiding during the scenes like her funeral and she kept it a secret).

I would create a mini list at the bottom along side the AoS alternate timeline for the time travel shenanigans.

Overall I liked the film, warrants a second watch for sure. Don't mind Professor Green being a thing but a scene showing it happen would have been nice, also no Hulk smash in IW or in EG was a real disappointment. Fat Thor was a shame for me, great development in IW, great scene with Rocket and just seems squandered to make him the butt of every joke.
Looking forward to the new shows and Guardians 3
 
My guesses are... (Endgame spoilers)
1.) There's always going to be a five-year gap of nothing happening between 2018 and 2023.

2.) Yeah, we'll have to see how AoS S6 will handle all this. Either it's an alternate timeline or the main characters may somehow be immune to the snap for whatever reason. Again, we'll have to see.

3.) Most importantly, Punisher S2 and Jessica Jones S3 HAVE to be pre-Infinity War. Even the 3 month time jump at the end of Punisher S2 would have to be in May at the latest. We're just going to have ignore that office calendar and phone date, I think.
 
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selfishmisery said:
My guesses are... (Endgame spoilers)
1.) There's always going to be a five-year gap of nothing happening between 2018 and 2023.

2.) Yeah, we'll have to see how AoS S6 will handle all this. Either it's an alternate timeline or the main characters may somehow be immune to the snap for whatever reason. Again, we'll have to see.

3.) Most importantly, Punisher S2 and Jessica Jones S3 HAVE to be pre-Infinity War. Even the 3 month time jump at the end of Punisher S2 would have to be in May at the latest. We're just going to have ignore that office calendar and phone date, I think.
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Avengers: Endgame Spoilers:
you could make The Punisher work, with a little imagination. Who says that half the population isn't gone in that scene? Frank sure wouldn't care. He'd be doing the same thing as Clint: murder (more) people. Just because it doesnt acknowledge it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Technically, Jarvis first appeared in a comic. https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Iron_Man_2:_Public_Identity so that doesn't technically mean it's a connection to Agent Carter, though it is, since it's the same actor aged up. I win an argument against my friend over canon because of that scene.

In the slight, slight change the tv shows are made non-canon (it won't happen) it's not hard to move them into a separate thread. I really doubt they'd do that. Without them, the universe seems empty, with some slight hint of a greater mythology.
 
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Semi-plothole in Avengers: Endgame
couldn't they use the time machine to de-age Steve Rogers like they did to Scott Lang?
Endgame Spoilers
okay, so they can't change the timeline. They can only travel to a point in time and take something with them. So how does Cap end up in the mainstream timeline?
 
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Dok95 said:
A French article who explains the end of Endgame, and how
the timelines are fixed: http://lestoilesheroiques.fr/2019/04/avengers-endgame-explication-voyage-dans-le-temps.html
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Even after his death, Steve was still changing my life ... well, she's not wrong. Is he not going to mention making out with her niece?

As I mentioned before, the time Machine can manipulate aging, so why can't he just be younger? Similar problem I encountered in Logan. Why can't Professor X transfer his consciousness into his twin in the revised timeline... or any brain dead person, since that would have stopped his mind from collapsing. Irrelevant, different franchise, forgive me.

I'm sure in Marvel Comics, the Infinity Stones don't work outside their own universe so, by extension, the Marvel Cinematic Universe should work the same way since it's all the same multiverse, unlike the Arrowverse. How do they do the snap if it's all seperate universes?
 
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Dok95 said:
A French article who explains the end of Endgame, and how
the timelines are fixed: http://lestoilesheroiques.fr/2019/04/avengers-endgame-explication-voyage-dans-le-temps.html
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Steve just returned to the main timeline after Peggy died, because otherwise Bruce's explanation of time travel wouldn't make sense. He says you can't change the past, you only create alternate timelines. So when Steve went back to be with Peggy, it was in an alternate timeline. Therefore Steve is not the husband Peggy mentions in Winter Soldier. Furthermore, if Steve had lived his whole life with Peggy in the main timeline, she wouldn't have been so surprised to see him alive in Winter Soldier.
 
joshjodalton said:
I'm pretty sure Steve just returned to the main timeline after Peggy died, because otherwise Bruce's explanation of time travel wouldn't make sense. He says you can't change the past, you only create alternate timelines. So when Steve went back to be with Peggy, it was in an alternate timeline. Therefore Steve is not the husband Peggy mentions in Winter Soldier. Furthermore, if Steve had lived his whole life with Peggy in the main timeline, she wouldn't have been so surprised to see him alive in Winter Soldier.
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Bruce also mentioned that this wasnt his area of expertise, and the Ancient One specifically said that moving the stones would create new realities, but she and Bruce came to the conclusion that if they were brought back immediately then that would be subverted. It seems pretty clear that it's all fixed. I think Loki's disappearance is cut off when cap returns the scepter, and Thanos going to the future is stopped whenever the power stone is returned, so essentially everything that happens in the past up to the moment of taking the stones seems to be canonically the main timeline. Not to mention, Steve lived through the main timeline from the point where he met back up with Peggy back into 2023. This locks it all into place. The Avengers came, picked up the stones, and Steve replaced them all canonically in the timeline.
 
iammattie said:
Bruce also mentioned that this wasnt his area of expertise, and the Ancient One specifically said that moving the stones would create new realities, but she and Bruce came to the conclusion that if they were brought back immediately then that would be subverted. It seems pretty clear that it's all fixed. I think Loki's disappearance is cut off when cap returns the scepter, and Thanos going to the future is stopped whenever the power stone is returned, so essentially everything that happens in the past up to the moment of taking the stones seems to be canonically the main timeline. Not to mention, Steve lived through the main timeline from the point where he met back up with Peggy back into 2023. This locks it all into place. The Avengers came, picked up the stones, and Steve replaced them all canonically in the timeline.
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I like that idea, actually. Saves alot of (Alternative Timeline)/(Time Heist) notes.
 
How long till we can talk about Avengers: Endgame without the spoiler tag and update the timeline? Till it's finished in the movie theater/cinema? Opening week?
 
From Wikipedia:
Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-insEdit
When asked how the season would connect to the film Avengers: Endgame, which will be released shortly before the season begins airing, Marvel Television head Jeph Loeb indicated that the one year time jump between the previous season and this one was part of the series' tie-in to the film.[3]

X for Doubt

About the connection to Endgame, Jeph Loeb said, "You saw today -- it's one year later!" and encouraged everyone to watch the film.

After Edwin Jarvis, I assumed that all the tv shows were cemented in canon (like they always were). This... this does put a frown on my face.
 
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iammattie said:
Bruce also mentioned that this wasnt his area of expertise, and the Ancient One specifically said that moving the stones would create new realities, but she and Bruce came to the conclusion that if they were brought back immediately then that would be subverted. It seems pretty clear that it's all fixed. I think Loki's disappearance is cut off when cap returns the scepter, and Thanos going to the future is stopped whenever the power stone is returned, so essentially everything that happens in the past up to the moment of taking the stones seems to be canonically the main timeline. Not to mention, Steve lived through the main timeline from the point where he met back up with Peggy back into 2023. This locks it all into place. The Avengers came, picked up the stones, and Steve replaced them all canonically in the timeline.
Click to expand...
The reason Steve had to return the Infinity Stones was so they wouldn't screw up the alternate timelines. It had nothing to do with their own timeline, but if they stole the stones from the alternate timelines, they would essentially be dooming those timelines. If this wasn't the case, then altering the past by doing things like killing Nebula and Thanos would totally screw up the main timeline. Also, as I said, there's no way Peggy was married to Steve in the main timeline, because she wouldn't have been so shocked to see him in Winter Soldier.
 
Pro Bot said:
From Wikipedia:
Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-insEdit
When asked how the season would connect to the film Avengers: Endgame, which will be released shortly before the season begins airing, Marvel Television head Jeph Loeb indicated that the one year time jump between the previous season and this one was part of the series' tie-in to the film.[3]

X for Doubt

About the connection to Endgame, Jeph Loeb said, "You saw today -- it's one year later!" and encouraged everyone to watch the film.

After Edwin Jarvis, I assumed that all the tv shows were cemented in canon (like they always were). This... this does put a frown on my face.
Click to expand...
I fail to see why this is a problem. It is hard to believe that Season 6 is set during the 5 year gap? All they would need is a reference to half the population being gone. I'm sure the world hasn't yet reached its apocalyptic state from 2023.
 
joshjodalton said:
The reason Steve had to return the Infinity Stones was so they wouldn't screw up the alternate timelines. It had nothing to do with their own timeline, but if they stole the stones from the alternate timelines, they would essentially be dooming those timelines. If this wasn't the case, then altering the past by doing things like killing Nebula and Thanos would totally screw up the main timeline. Also, as I said, there's no way Peggy was married to Steve in the main timeline, because she wouldn't have been so shocked to see him in Winter Soldier.
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retcon. I believe the timeline goes like this.

Timeline 1
Original MCU occurs until Steve goes back in time. Steve from Timeline 0 appears, which is identical to Timeline 1.

Timeline 2
This universe is the one Steve from Timeline 1 shows up in.

Timeline 3
This universe is the one Steve from Timeline 2 shows up in.

Etc.

We can chork the Peggy scenes up to very bad alzheimer.
 
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