(Defunct thread)

My personal head canon at this point with Lucifer is that when Samael fell to the abyss that came to be Hell, the angel divided it's power into multiple beings to serve different functions. One being more 'human' and rebellious (Tom Ellis's Lucifer), another being more malicious and calculated (Gwendoline Christie's Lucifer) and other entities that served to govern Hell's demon population (Beelzebub, Belial, etc - all names a certain version of Lucifer had claimed for himself.)

Satan ("The First of the Fallen") might just even be another separate aspect of Samael in this multiverse, unlike the comics where he was his own entity apart from Lucifer entirely. Especially considering Tom Ellis' never even brings up the existence of another Devil separate from himself in 93 episodes of his series.

DC tends to have one Hell (albeit multiple realms) per multiverse, so in my opinion we're mainly seeing different aspects of Lucifer in different realms of Hell.. But I guess it's up to the fans to decide; either removing other versions from association or thought (I don't blame you) or trying to connect the conflicting mythos with a complicated but more-convenient theory. Lord knows DC has done that many-a-time with their continuity/lore...
 
Hell is definitely multiversal. In Crisis, Lucifer gives John the card to purgatory which brings him to Oliver, who died on Earth-38 (or Earth-1, I don't remember if he lived that long). The fact John goes to Earth-666 to find that specific Lucifer is way too coincidental.

Tom Ellis is certainly the canon Lucifer. What part The Sandman plays in that, if any, is unclear.
 
Nothing really contradicts with Matt Cable's story in Swamp Thing because 1.) "I think I died in my sleep" was vague enough and could have easily meant he bled out after Floronic Man attacked him. 2.) A couple hours = at least several months in The Dreaming since that was brought up by Rose Walker after noticing
Lyta's pregnancy in the Dreaming
in-show.
 
selfishmisery said:
My personal head canon at this point with Lucifer is that when Samael fell to the abyss that came to be Hell, the angel divided it's power into multiple beings to serve different functions. One being more 'human' and rebellious (Tom Ellis's Lucifer), another being more malicious and calculated (Gwendoline Christie's Lucifer) and other entities that served to govern Hell's demon population (Beelzebub, Belial, etc - all names a certain version of Lucifer had claimed for himself.)

Satan ("The First of the Fallen") might just even be another separate aspect of Samael in this multiverse, unlike the comics where he was his own entity apart from Lucifer entirely. Especially considering Tom Ellis' never even brings up the existence of another Devil separate from himself in 93 episodes of his series.

DC tends to have one Hell (albeit multiple realms) per multiverse, so in my opinion we're mainly seeing different aspects of Lucifer in different realms of Hell.. But I guess it's up to the fans to decide; either removing other versions from association or thought (I don't blame you) or trying to connect the conflicting mythos with a complicated but more-convenient theory. Lord knows DC has done that many-a-time with their continuity/lore...
Click to expand...
Having thought about it, Lucifer having avatars makes sense. When one is literally a rival to God himself in terms of power, of course they can create manifestations of themselves. I mean, Darkseid does it in the comics.
selfishmisery said:
Nothing really contradicts with Matt Cable's story in Swamp Thing because 1.) "I think I died in my sleep" was vague enough and could have easily meant he bled out after Floronic Man attacked him. 2.) A couple hours = at least several months in The Dreaming since that was brought up by Rose Walker after noticing
Lyta's pregnancy in the Dreaming
in-show.
Click to expand...
The Sandman as Earth-19 is my new head-canon, lol. Here's hoping that the Abramsverse ties into the already established Swamp Thing so that black John Constantine can be Johanna's cousin or something. :p
 
Pro Bot said:
Having thought about it, Lucifer having avatars makes sense. When one is literally a rival to God himself in terms of power, of course they can create manifestations of themselves. I mean, Darkseid does it in the comics.

The Sandman as Earth-19 is my new head-canon, lol. Here's hoping that the Abramsverse ties into the already established Swamp Thing so that black John Constantine can be Johanna's cousin or something. :p
Click to expand...
1660019445223237.jpg
 
I watch BobaTalks on YouTube occasionally. The man is fairly well versed in honest criticism and I trust him greatly with information, but he mentioned in his latest review that he heard through the grapevine that thanks to the Discovery merger that Swamp Thing (2019) might be getting a 'soft reboot' revival with the ORIGINAL cast back, AND will get folded into JJ Abrams' JL Dark universe plans.

And no he's not one of those rumor hounds nor does he talk out of his ass.
Give a listen (around 22:18):
 
dc.fandom.com

Nimue Inwudu (Swamp Thing 2019 TV Series)

Magic Precognition Tarot Reading Occultism Blindness This version of the character is exclusive to the continuity of the television series Swamp Thing and is an adaptation of Madame Xanadu. The original character was created by David Michelinie and Val Mayerik and first appeared in Doorway to...
dc.fandom.com dc.fandom.com
Wonder if the Madame X series would use this actress, then.
 
In Sandman they referenced
a serial killer named "The BogeyMan" having died in a Louisiana swamp.

Obvious reference to Swamp Thing, but the Corinthian says it was "a few years ago". So maybe he was working for the old business dude antagonist in that show and was killed by him at some point.
 
dc.fandom.com

Swamp Thing Vol 2 44

"Bogeymen": In Louisiana, Swamp Thing visits Abby Holland in her home by generating a body for himself from the flora in her bathroom plumbing. He expresses his worry that Constantine's silence has le I know... that there must be an answer... a light in the blackness... but I don't know... if I...
dc.fandom.com dc.fandom.com
"This issue's antagonist is referenced a few years later in Sandman #14."

Definitely a reference to Swamp Thing, likely a shared element from the comic version.
 
So, to sum it up:

1. John Constantine helped split Mazikeen into two halves, one for Hell and one for the Earthly plane. Lucifer owed him for that in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

2. Samael has multiple physical manifestations of themself, one who retired to Earth-666 and another, more malicious Lucifer who rules Hell in whatever domain we see in The Sandman.

Rulers of Hell
Samael/Lucifer Morningstar (Tom Ellis/Gwendoline Christie)

Triumvirate of Hell
Lucifer Rofocale/Satan (Peter Stormare/Beau Daniels)
Belial (Mel Tuck)
Beelzebub (Bill Croft)

Lucifer claims that the names of the Triumvirate are his own. Either they're manifestations of Lucifer or ruling demons always take on names that Morningstar has gone by.
 
Last edited:
Sandman timeline up to date.

EDIT: The final timestamp in the "Calliope" segment is "August 2022"...except the newspaper she looks at mentions Unity Kincaid.
Sooo another time stamp error? Should that be 2021 instead?
 
Another clue for Sandman being set free in 1980, but with the Dreaming being outside of time thus he arrives there in present day:

The female guard of the two guarding his glass prison is reading Firestarter by Stephen King - released in September 1980.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top