Before Watchmen - discussion, speculation, rumours, and spoilers

[Jaggyd]

Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

I still find the claim "Watchmen is the most influential comic of ALL TIMEZ!!" dubious at best. Influential on society as a whole, no V for Vendetta is more influential. On the Industry, no, because most of the pros I know respect Alan Moore, but they all find other works to be more influential. It was a neat book, it was a neat bit of hero deconstruction, but honestly, I think Mark Waid (hell, even Garth Ennis) did it better.

But, that's the great thing about art/lit, it's 100% subjective, but that's the problem too, too many fans claim their favorite is the most awesome.

 

[Bass]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Do you require everything you read to have a justified existence before you read it?

I said "I want to be told a good reason as to why BEFORE WATCHMEN is going to be good and worth my time."

If I think a story (film, book, comic) is not going to be worth my time, then by definition, I will not read it.

So it comes down to what makes something 'worth your time'. I don't see how the question, "Why do you think this is a good idea?" and asking DC to sell me on their own product is being unreasonable.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Before Watchmen, there was... Watchman!

Watchman 2: I Watches The Watchmen!

 

[bluebeast]

Re: Get ready for Watchmen 2!

I still find the claim "Watchmen is the most influential comic of ALL TIMEZ!!" dubious at best. Influential on society as a whole, no V for Vendetta is more influential. On the Industry, no, because most of the pros I know respect Alan Moore, but they all find other works to be more influential. It was a neat book, it was a neat bit of hero deconstruction, but honestly, I think Mark Waid (hell, even Garth Ennis) did it better.

But, that's the great thing about art/lit, it's 100% subjective, but that's the problem too, too many fans claim their favorite is the most awesome.

Agreed. You might as well say ACTION COMICS #1 is the most important and influential comic book ever made and I'm pretty sure they've made a few stories off of that without compromising the entire integrity of the original.

People make stories about the Bible all the time and that's the most influential book ever written.

Stories are never over they're just waiting for someone else to pick up where they left off.

 

[Friday]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

I said "I want to be told a good reason as to why BEFORE WATCHMEN is going to be good and worth my time."

If I think a story (film, book, comic) is not going to be worth my time, then by definition, I will not read it.

So it comes down to what makes something 'worth your time'. I don't see how the question, "Why do you think this is a good Idea?" and asking DC to sell me on their own product is being unreasonable.

Well. They did just officially announce it yesterda and are likely going to spend a good bit of time and money on promotion for the project before it comes out... in the future. I. Think its reasonable for them to not say everything about it on day one.

 

[E]

I said "I want to be told a good reason as to why BEFORE WATCHMEN is going to be good and worth my time."

If I think a story (film, book, comic) is not going to be worth my time, then by definition, I will not read it.

So it comes down to what makes something 'worth your time'. I don't see how the question, "Why do you think this is a good idea?" and asking DC to sell me on their own product is being unreasonable.

I didn't mean to sound snarky at all - it was an honest, real question.

 

[Bass]

Well. They did just officially announce it yesterda and are likely going to spend a good bit of time and money on promotion for the project before it comes out... in the future. I. Think its reasonable for them to not say everything about it on day one.

But that's not what I'm asking for. I appreciate the tiny, vague snippet JMS gave for his DR MANHATTAN series & Wein's description of his OZYMANDIAS. But, while they expressed their basic premise, I found them to be dull and wanting. They claim there's more to it, but I don't know what that is.

Now, it's not unreasonable to expect more concrete details as these are PREQUELS to one of the most well-known comic works ever. We knew from day one what the STAR WARS prequels were about, and X-MEN: FIRST CLASS. What's more, the content of those prequels was inherent in the premise itself!

Now I've postulated that the MINUTEMEN prequel seems somewhat self-justifying as would a NITE OWL & RORSCHACH series detailing their friendship's dissolution. But I cannot fathom what is left in SILK SPECTRE to explore and since these are prequels, it doesn't seem unjust to ask for the basic premise of them.

I didn't mean to sound snarky at all - it was an honest, real question.

I'm sorry. I really read it as though you were being majorly snarky and so I was a little more "smack down". So sorry.

 

[E]

I'm sorry. I really read it as though you were being majorly snarky and so I was a little more "smack down". So sorry.

It's ok, I only realized what it sounded like after the fact.

 

[Bass]

It's ok, I only realized what it sounded like after the fact.

No E! No! I am more sorry than you! Gawd! You're such a jerk! I'm taking this **** to twitter! Where we can settle this like men who have no testicles or sense of dignity!

 

[E]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

No E! No! I am more sorry than you! Gawd! You're such a jerk! I'm taking this **** to twitter! Where we can settle this like men who have no testicles or sense of dignity!

Whoa whoa whoa - I never said I was sorry. What an entitled jerk you are.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

This is like Planet-Man all over again.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

This comic is clearly a cash grab, and you know what? I'm ok with that. I don't even think it's necessarily a bad thing. As said, DC is a company and the aim of a company is to make a profit. Hopefully it's good ... I see they have some talented people attached to it who even I (not a huge comic book reader) recognize. Even if it's bad I don't see how that would damage the original comic. If you don't like it don't read it or just ignore it. The Dark Knight Strikes Again didn't really mess up the legacy of The Dark Knight Returns. I don't think this will either. Besides that, I don't think Watchmen is above having sequels/prequels made of it. Most literature classics have had sequels made of them by other artists. Dracula, Frankenstein, etc. Just look at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or Alan Moore's Lost Girls. It's more than a bit ironic that Moore is so against this Watchmen prequel when he has taken, and altered, classic literature characters for both of these works.

As for the assertion that DC is somehow being unethical by making this comic ... No. Some companies behave unethically as they try to make a profit (damaging the environment, exploiting works), but there's really no connection to that here in this example.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Jaggyd]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

This comic is clearly a cash grab, and you know what? I'm ok with that. I don't even think it's necessarily a bad thing. As said, DC is a company and the aim of a company is to make a profit. Hopefully it's good ... I see they have some talented people attached to it who even I (not a huge comic book reader) recognize. Even if it's bad I don't see how that would damage the original comic. If you don't like it don't read it or just ignore it. The Dark Knight Strikes Again didn't really mess up the legacy of The Dark Knight Returns. I don't think this will either. Besides that, I don't think Watchmen is above having sequels/prequels made of it. Most literature classics have had sequels made of them by other artists. Dracula, Frankenstein, etc. Just look at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or Alan Moore's Lost Girls. It's more than a bit ironic that Moore is so against this Watchmen prequel when he has taken, and altered, classic literature characters for both of these works.

As for the assertion that DC is somehow being unethical by making this comic ... No. Some companies behave unethically as they try to make a profit (damaging the environment, exploiting works), but there's really no connection to that here in this example.

That's my 2 cents.

+Infinity

 

[Bass]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Whoa whoa whoa - I never said I was sorry. What an entitled jerk you are.

LET THIS BE OUR FINAL BATTLE.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

Honestly, my concerns with this project are the opposite of what seems to be everyone else's. It's not that DC is making prequels to Watchmen. It's the corporate ownership of properties. Our public domain laws are ludicrous and, AFAIC, one of the principal reasons the majority of comic books are so insipid is because the properties are so territorially held and controlled. When you have a character held for decades under a corporation concerned with the "integrity" and "core" of the characters as multimedia properties, you pretty much stymy any chance of growth for the character. Like DK said, just because prequels are published doesn't mean the copy of Watchmen on your shelf is suddenly going to be altered to match up to it. But at the same time, it seems doubtful it will be good. Given the high profile of the original property and the number of interests involved, we'll get a mediocre mess that fails to do anything original and is compromised by the involvement of too many people.

I don't agree that Watchmen is the MOST IMPORTANT GRAPHIC NOVEL EVER or whatever bull**** is touted about it, but I do think it's a good book, and it would have ended up a much lesser book if it had used the original Charleston characters, and as such, was compromised by editorial/financial/creative interest as to the long term viability of pre-existing characters in multimedia works.

If Moore can't have ownership of the characters I'd rather see it enter the public domain and let various companies do their own interpretation of prequels/sequels than have it so tightly controlled by DC.

Is it unethical in and of itself? No, of course not. But I think there's a discussion to be had about the rights of ownership as far as creative properties are concerned, and there's definitely an ethical question as to how creators have been treated in the past.

 

[Bass]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

I would agree.

What is AFAIC? As Far As I... ?

Also, for any interested, I put up my typical "Bass-essay-post" at my tumblr, but this time in defence of the project.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

I would agree.

What is AFAIC? As Far As I... ?

Also, for any interested, I put up my typical "Bass-essay-post" at my tumblr, but this time in defence of the project.

****, I don't know.

 

[E]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

This comic is clearly a cash grab, and you know what? I'm ok with that. I don't even think it's necessarily a bad thing. As said, DC is a company and the aim of a company is to make a profit. Hopefully it's good ... I see they have some talented people attached to it who even I (not a huge comic book reader) recognize. Even if it's bad I don't see how that would damage the original comic. If you don't like it don't read it or just ignore it. The Dark Knight Strikes Again didn't really mess up the legacy of The Dark Knight Returns. I don't think this will either. Besides that, I don't think Watchmen is above having sequels/prequels made of it. Most literature classics have had sequels made of them by other artists. Dracula, Frankenstein, etc. Just look at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or Alan Moore's Lost Girls. It's more than a bit ironic that Moore is so against this Watchmen prequel when he has taken, and altered, classic literature characters for both of these works.

As for the assertion that DC is somehow being unethical by making this comic ... No. Some companies behave unethically as they try to make a profit (damaging the environment, exploiting works), but there's really no connection to that here in this example.

That's my 2 cents.

Great post; agreed 100%. Great point about Dark Knight Strikes Again.

 

[Jaggyd]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

I would agree.

What is AFAIC? As Far As I... ?

Also, for any interested, I put up my typical "Bass-essay-post" at my tumblr, but this time in defence of the project.

As Far As I Care.


Seriously, there needs to be a class you take before being allowed to post anything online. So, then everyone knows and gets web acronym-thingies. Kinda like how my mum and her friends actually think LOL is "Lots Of Love".


Carry on.

 

[Friday]

Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN (speculation, rumours, and spoilers)

As Far As I Care.


Seriously, there needs to be a class you take before being allowed to post anything online. So, then everyone knows and gets web acronym-thingies. Kinda like how my mum and her friends actually think LOL is "Lots Of Love".


Carry on.

Those things are moving way too damn fast. SMDH, HMU...

I'm becoming an old man infront of my own eyes...