All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder series discussion (spoilers)

Wow....nothing since Feb?

I just read the 1st 3 issues. I don't normally read Batman but I liked this. I like the "soldier theme rather than the "detective" or "world's greatest human" bit.

I still love Lee's work....but is it just me or does his stuff look dated?
 
If it looks dated its because Jim Lee is such an icon of the 90s style, where he was much aped.

I think he's very good, but at times, overrated by DC and Wizard - because they're stoooopid. Hyuk hyuk.

But I'm a likin' him.

I think AS Batman is a bit poop though. I probably won't pick up the next issue.
 
Reading the solicits... Im intrigued again, because the other heroes are fully aware that this batman is ****ing crazy...

So i'm holding out hope.
 
Bass said:
If it looks dated its because Jim Lee is such an icon of the 90s style, where he was much aped.

I think he's very good, but at times, overrated by DC and Wizard - because they're stoooopid. Hyuk hyuk.

But I'm a likin' him.

I think AS Batman is a bit poop though. I probably won't pick up the next issue.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I know he's been around for a while. But it just seems to me that his style never really adapted to current times. It still feels as if I'm reading a 90s comic.

He's good....yeah....but I guess it's the story that's bogging my love for this down.

It really isn't as good as AS Superman..........but then again.....what is? I wish the artists could switch. I'd rather rea AS Superman with Lee's art.
 
Do we have a date for #4? I had it down as this week but it's not on the ship list.
 
So did anyone get number 4???? man people are slack giving reviews of the comics
 
Last edited:
I got it, and enjoyed the hell out of it, because one thing has been made clear...

This Batman is insane. He is not supposed to be likable, he is supposed to be a force of nature unleashed on a primal level... He has in many ways lost touch with the human side of life, and his duality is destroying him... as Bruce Wayne and Batman are two totally separate forces.

By making Dick Grayson hate Bruce, it offers an interesting dynamic to the "Dynamic Duo", and Alfred seems to be the only character with an ounce of sense... My favorite point in this series so far has been Dick waking up in the cave under silk sheets with a hot meal sitting in front of him.

Superman doesn't know who Batman is, but Batman has figured out that Superman is Clark Kent. They are in the midst of a petty rivalry that foreshadows the big battle between the two of them in DKR. It offers insight to how Miller is writing these characters... They are both Schoolyard bullies, convinced of their own brands of justice, but their refusal to compromise is a direct result of their Immaturity. By contrasting Bruce's war on injustice to Superman's dedication to fighting for Justice the American Way, you see that there needs to be a middle ground, and I think that's where Robin's role in the series is going to come out.

I am still holding out for this series.

I think that Miller is going to use Alfred and Dick's relationship to help tame the Wild Side of Batman, to give him the ability to turn into a caring person and still have the same dedication to the War.

But this IS the Dark Knight Returns Batman... He has a sadistic side that emerges in fights and in his treatment of those around him.

If this is the DKR Batman... When will we see the DKR Joker? Perhaps the single most terrifying portrayal of the character in a comic book. He kills because he wants Batman's attention, because he is obsessed with Batman. He is Chaos because Batman is order... I'd like to see him get involved in a huge way, and for Batman to be forced to decide not to kill him (once again foreshadowing DKR).

Its just important to remember that this is the Millerverse. This is Ultimate Batman, essentially... Maybe Batman Year One happened in both this universe AND in the regular DCU, but this is the story that is going to lead to the end of Superheroes. Batman needs to become the man who will say, "Superheroes have always been criminals, we NEED to be criminals" in the Congress Hearings against masked men.

The series is, at its weakest, entertaining, and at its best, a deeply thought reimagination of the entire DCU landscape in the eyes of Frank Miller...

Either way, I won't be dropping the book.

8.5/10
 
Last edited:
Wow that sounds awsome as.....
I cant wait to get this...
How come the delayed stuff always are just so good???
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
I got it, and enjoyed the hell out of it, because one thing has been made clear...

This Batman is insane. He is not supposed to be likable, he is supposed to be a force of nature unleashed on a primal level... He has in many ways lost touch with the human side of life, and his duality is destroying him... as Bruce Wayne and Batman are two totally separate forces.

By making Dick Grayson hate Bruce, it offers an interesting dynamic to the "Dynamic Duo", and Alfred seems to be the only character with an ounce of sense... My favorite point in this series so far has been Dick waking up in the cave under silk sheets with a hot meal sitting in front of him.

Superman doesn't know who Batman is, but Batman has figured out that Superman is Clark Kent. They are in the midst of a petty rivalry that foreshadows the big battle between the two of them in DKR. It offers insight to how Miller is writing these characters... They are both Schoolyard bullies, convinced of their own brands of justice, but their refusal to compromise is a direct result of their Immaturity. By contrasting Bruce's war on injustice to Superman's dedication to fighting for Justice the American Way, you see that there needs to be a middle ground, and I think that's where Robin's role in the series is going to come out.

I am still holding out for this series.

I think that Miller is going to use Alfred and Dick's relationship to help tame the Wild Side of Batman, to give him the ability to turn into a caring person and still have the same dedication to the War.

But this IS the Dark Knight Returns Batman... He has a sadistic side that emerges in fights and in his treatment of those around him.

If this is the DKR Batman... When will we see the DKR Joker? Perhaps the single most terrifying portrayal of the character in a comic book. He kills because he wants Batman's attention, because he is obsessed with Batman. He is Chaos because Batman is order... I'd like to see him get involved in a huge way, and for Batman to be forced to decide not to kill him (once again foreshadowing DKR).

Its just important to remember that this is the Millerverse. This is Ultimate Batman, essentially... Maybe Batman Year One happened in both this universe AND in the regular DCU, but this is the story that is going to lead to the end of Superheroes. Batman needs to become the man who will say, "Superheroes have always been criminals, we NEED to be criminals" in the Congress Hearings against masked men.

The series is, at its weakest, entertaining, and at its best, a deeply thought reimagination of the entire DCU landscape in the eyes of Frank Miller...

Either way, I won't be dropping the book.

8.5/10
Click to expand...


Yeah......

Right now the story jumps around and is very erratic. But it's still good. I like the approach that Batman is taking towards Robin. The way I saw it...Batman in the normal DCU was never training Robin to take his place. He was training him to be his partner. But here...it's like he is trying to create another him. Someone who can help him now...but take up the mantle after he's gone. And in order to do that he feels he's gotta subject him to all the horrors he went thru.

It feels very similar to the Batman Beyond episode of Justice League Unlimited.
 
That is great Doc. I never read DKR's so this is a werid verison of Batman then I'm used too. I loved when Alfred told him what's up. That was awesome. The artwork is still incredible.

B
 
I'm just curious about where you're coming from...

I could see why you wouldnt like the portrayal of Batman, but I don't see anything that i'd view as terrible...
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
I'm just curious about where you're coming from...

I could see why you wouldnt like the portrayal of Batman, but I don't see anything that i'd view as terrible...
Click to expand...

Me either. If this is a radical departure from regular Batman I wouldn't know it. In fact, maybe that's why I don't buy any regular Batman titles. I like this crazy Batman.

In fact, I don't see much difference between this crazy Batman and Dark Knight Returns Batman. And everyone seems to like him well enough.

Everyone is a hypocrite except me and Doc.
 
E said:
Me either. If this is a radical departure from regular Batman I wouldn't know it. In fact, maybe that's why I don't buy any regular Batman titles. I like this crazy Batman.

In fact, I don't see much difference between this crazy Batman and Dark Knight Returns Batman. And everyone seems to like him well enough.

Everyone is a hypocrite except me and Doc.
Click to expand...
...but i like AS Batman too...:cry:
 
Ultimate Quicksilver said:
...but i like AS Batman too...:cry:
Click to expand...

Everyone is a hypocrite except me, Doc, and Ult. Quicksilver.

More to the point, anyone who hates the character of All-Star Batman, but likes DKR Batman, is a hypocrite and only trying to sound kewl.
 
E said:
Me either. If this is a radical departure from regular Batman I wouldn't know it. In fact, maybe that's why I don't buy any regular Batman titles. I like this crazy Batman.

In fact, I don't see much difference between this crazy Batman and Dark Knight Returns Batman. And everyone seems to like him well enough.

Everyone is a hypocrite except me and Doc.
Click to expand...

Dark Knight Returns Batman was 50 at the time, so him acting like a bitter old man made sense and even then he never did something completely insane like trying to make Robin eat rats. All Star Batman is not 50, so he shouldn't be completely bitter at this point and him making that insane and unlikeable is real good way to turn off the readers. I mean really now, what's this series supposed to be about, when are they going to fight crime or something?
 
The Overlord said:
Dark Knight Returns Batman was 50 at the time, so him acting like a bitter old man made sense and even then he never did something completely insane like trying to make Robin eat rats. All Star Batman is not 50, so he shouldn't be completely bitter at this point and him making that insane and unlikeable is real good way to turn off the readers. I mean really now, what's this series supposed to be about, when are they going to fight crime or something?
Click to expand...

This series is supposed to be about the evolution of Robin... Batman ain't the main character, Dick grayson is.

And DKR Batman rolls a tank into group of teenagers, shoots them down with rubber bullets, and then beats the leader to the edge of his life confessing he likes it.

DKR Batman enjoys the suffering of the people he fights, just like All-Star Batman does, and he talks about a war.

He also brutally wounds people, breaking their limbs to get them to drop guns and all that.

I don't see how being 50 makes you more eager to hurt people, especially since he makes it clear that he feels as though he is young again.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
This series is supposed to be about the evolution of Robin... Batman ain't the main character, Dick grayson is.

And DKR Batman rolls a tank into group of teenagers, shoots them down with rubber bullets, and then beats the leader to the edge of his life confessing he likes it.

DKR Batman enjoys the suffering of the people he fights, just like All-Star Batman does, and he talks about a war.

He also brutally wounds people, breaking their limbs to get them to drop guns and all that.

I don't see how being 50 makes you more eager to hurt people, especially since he makes it clear that he feels as though he is young again.
Click to expand...

First those teenagers were psychotic, killer mutants and Batman used rubber bullets on them. The mutant leader was rapist psycho and Batman had to break his arm to scare the others mutants into giving up. That was just him being realstic in the harsh DKR universe. Dick Grayson is an innocent boy so Batman trying to make him eat rats serves no purpose, other than to make him insane and unlikable.

Again Batman being 50 in DKR is important, because at time time he would have lost all optimism regarding his mission and him being a bitter old man made sense, that would explain his cynial attitude and brutal methods, serveral decades of fighting crime and nothing really changing in Gotham would make him cynical. All Star Batman is fairly new in his career (around year 2 or year 3) so he wouldn't have lost all lost all optimism regarding regarding his mission at this point, him being completely bitter, uncaring and cynical does not make sense at this point.
 
He is not training Dick Grayson to be his subordinate, he is training him to be his equal, and he is trying to submit Dick to the training he underwent himself. He does not see any other way to be a hero... we can see that from his disrespect of Superman.

His bitterness of the world makes more sense than a bittersweet optimism. He lives in a city where the cops were about to take an eight year old boy into the woods to shoot him, just to make things easier for him. In a world like that he cannot hope that good deeds will change the world. He needs the beat the city into shape, carving out the bad and dumping it on the street. Frank Miller's Gotham City is a dark, scary place where Justice can only reign when a a man dresses up like a nocturnal beast and beats the **** out of cops.

According to DKR, Batman says in regards to whether heroes were criminals (back in the days when he was a younger man in his prime): "Of course we're criminals. We have to be criminals." This implies that his state of mind is nothing new! People don't say "Hey, batman's going crazy!" People say, "Criminals are showing up beaten to the brink of death, broken in ways we can't even imagine... Wait a second! That sounds like Batman!" If the way he fought crime was new and different, they would have made a point of that, but they made a point that Batman's brutal methods have always led to the corruption of the insane, and led good people to villainy. If the way he fought crime was new and different, people wouldn't believe that it was him, because he had been gone for so long, and brutal criminals were everywhere in the street. All-Star gives us the chance to see why he feels he must fight this way. His parents were victims to the ruthlessness of the city, and so was he. Bruce Wayne had to become the darkness to fight the darkness, and in a city as dark as Miller's Gotham, he has to become pretty damn dark.

...

I don't see the point of arguing this, I am pretty sure that Miller said very frankly (no pun intended) that this is meant to bridge Batman: Year One and Dark Knight... I'll try to find the article where he says that, but I am pretty damn sure he did.

However, having reread DKR and DKSB in the past week to write a paper on for school, I would happily prove my point over and over again.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top