Avengers Young Avengers series discussion (spoilers)

I personally don't like the idea of a reunion with Scarlet Witch, because there's so much potential for cheap, deus-ex-machina plotting.

But I trust in Heinberg's abilities as a writer enough to know that when their meeting finally happens -- and it feels rather inevitable, at this point -- it won't be quite as crappy as it *could* be, in the wrong hands.

Oh, and the official list? All it means is that Scarlet Witch is NOT A MUTANT anymore. That's all. Given the nature of her abilities, I'm guessing she can still practice some form of magick -- complete with quasi-scientific explanation -- regardless of whether or not she retains her mutant nature.

Again, I don't necessarily like it, and it feels like a cheap explanation, but I have no doubt that Heinberg coud find a way to present it in a creative way.
 
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compound said:
Oh, and the official list? All it means is that Scarlet Witch is NOT A MUTANT anymore. That's all. Given the nature of her abilities, I'm guessing she can still practice some form of magick -- complete with quasi-scientific explanation -- regardless of whether or not she retains her mutant nature.
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Like Dr. Strange or something?

Either way, it's fine the way the have her. No powers, no magic, no nothing. I would love for it to stay that way. The meeting may be inevitable at some point, but just no Scarlet Witch and ANY kind of magic at all.
 
Ice said:
I did say it was in 'alphabetical order'. :mrgreen:
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and i was thinking of "WANDA MAXI.........." you know by NAME, not CODE NAME.

Common mistake, we'll forgive you this once.

compound said:
I personally don't like the idea of a reunion with Scarlet Witch, because there's so much potential for cheap, deus-ex-machina plotting.

But I trust in Heinberg's abilities as a writer enough to know that when their meeting finally happens -- and it feels rather inevitable, at this point -- it won't be quite as crappy as it *could* be, in the wrong hands.

Oh, and the official list? All it means is that Scarlet Witch is NOT A MUTANT anymore. That's all. Given the nature of her abilities, I'm guessing she can still practice some form of magick -- complete with quasi-scientific explanation -- regardless of whether or not she retains her mutant nature.

Again, I don't necessarily like it, and it feels like a cheap explanation, but I have no doubt that Heinberg coud find a way to present it in a creative way.
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but it could also go into the way that when and if she ever does meet the kids, THEY wont except her?

or we might just be told next issue that aliens read all that on some web transmission, that got jumbled up in space somehow.
 
frankly, I just want Billy to take the name Scarlet Witch, because ANYTHING is better than "Wiccan"
 
Ya and isn't wicca like a mother nature cult? If so, how does that name tie in with his powers? But, I think he will be the one that connects with a "powerless" Wanda. It will be sad and tragic and everyone will hug. I still can't see Vision playing the dad role. Also, I said before that the only way Wanda would get her powers back would be if Strange intervened.
 
Oooo, according to the All New Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z #5, out this week, Kate Bishop has picked her code name. Apparently it happens in YA #12 (not due out until the end of June, assuming it falls on time).

Want the spoiler?

Kate Bishop's new code name is: Hawkeye. Dunno if she supposedly took this name thinking he was dead, or if by issue #12 Clint Barton has officially given up ever being a superhero again and gave it to her.
 
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Rhyo said:
Oooo, according to the All New Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z #5, out this week, Kate Bishop has picked her code name. Apparently it happens in YA #12 (not due out until the end of June, assuming it falls on time).

Want the spoiler?

Kate Bishop's new code name is: Hawkeye. Dunno if she supposedly took this name thinking he was dead, or if by issue #12 Clint Barton has officially given up ever being a superhero again and gave it to her.
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Veeeeeery interesting...
 
Rhyo said:
Oooo, according to the All New Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z #5, out this week, Kate Bishop has picked her code name. Apparently it happens in YA #12 (not due out until the end of June, assuming it falls on time).

Want the spoiler?

Kate Bishop's new code name is: Hawkeye. Dunno if she supposedly took this name thinking he was dead, or if by issue #12 Clint Barton has officially given up ever being a superhero again and gave it to her.
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thats a nice little twist.....very nice...
 
Spoilers, me hearties (who gives a ^&%$ about Superman? Pirates! Next week!)


Young Avengers #12 (Heinberg/Cheung; Marvel). The hallmarks of Heinberg's writing in this series have been his dialog, his characterizations and his obvious, sheer love of the characters and the entire Avengers series. It really comes through reading the book and makes me smile at just about every page.

The first series wraps up on a feel-good end note, with the new team coming together in costume and all with code names. There are some nice character moments in this issue (both for the Young Avengers and the New Avengers) with a very nice use of layout - a large, busy "fight" splash page on the left and then a series of overlay panels on the right, breaking it down to an interchange between a member of the Young Avengers and a New Avenger - Cassie Lang and Spiderman, Wolverine and Tommy, Spider-Woman and Kate Bishop, Iron Man and Vision, Huking and Luke Cage. Cheung's art is lovely and very distinctive, although I could wish for less of a desire to make everyone look like they have dirt on their faces - it brings out the Mom in me and makes me want to tell everyone to wash. Or I'll do it for them.

Plotting is not always Heinberg's strongest skill (of course, he started his Marvel comics career with a Kang time travel story, which is definitely jumping into the deep end of the pool first), and there is a big plot element here that sounds good and saves the day but should last only as long as it takes the Kree/Skrull ships to get home and figure it out - and then they come back, madder than ever. The delays on the series make it confusing remembering when this is set - post-"forming the New Avengers" but pre-House of M is about the only thing I can figure. Otherwise the things that Cap "gives away" to Kate don't make much sense, nor do the comments about the search for Billy and Tommy's mother - there is a nice hint of future stormy team problems there, too, as Cassie points out that their mother killed her father.

The Young Avengers continue the trend of odd and goofy codenames - speedster Tommy, show his Uncle Quicksilver's powers -and attitude - takes the name "Speed" which has the now-powered-via-transfusion Patriot (and probably a good many readers) rolling his eyes, and Captain America "gives" (via Jessica Jones) the codename Hawkeye, plus Hawkeye's bow, quiver - presumably now with quick release buckles - and arrows to Kate. As a long-time fan of the character of Hawkeye, I have real misgivings about what this means for Marvel's plans, but Heinberg handled it as well as it possibly could be handled.

At the end of the first volume/season/whatever, this has been a lot of fun, and I've enjoyed every issue, even with a few minor plotting and pacing mis-steps, on the strength of the characterizations and tone of the title. Hopefully, Heinberg and Cheung will be back on the title in early 2007 (though I'm not sure how firm that commitment is), and I'll be looking forward to it.
 
Rhyo said:
Spoilers, me hearties (who gives a ^&%$ about Superman? Pirates! Next week!)


Young Avengers #12 (Heinberg/Cheung; Marvel). The hallmarks of Heinberg's writing in this series have been his dialog, his characterizations and his obvious, sheer love of the characters and the entire Avengers series. It really comes through reading the book and makes me smile at just about every page.

The first series wraps up on a feel-good end note, with the new team coming together in costume and all with code names. There are some nice character moments in this issue (both for the Young Avengers and the New Avengers) with a very nice use of layout - a large, busy "fight" splash page on the left and then a series of overlay panels on the right, breaking it down to an interchange between a member of the Young Avengers and a New Avenger - Cassie Lang and Spiderman, Wolverine and Tommy, Spider-Woman and Kate Bishop, Iron Man and Vision, Huking and Luke Cage. Cheung's art is lovely and very distinctive, although I could wish for less of a desire to make everyone look like they have dirt on their faces - it brings out the Mom in me and makes me want to tell everyone to wash. Or I'll do it for them.

Plotting is not always Heinberg's strongest skill (of course, he started his Marvel comics career with a Kang time travel story, which is definitely jumping into the deep end of the pool first), and there is a big plot element here that sounds good and saves the day but should last only as long as it takes the Kree/Skrull ships to get home and figure it out - and then they come back, madder than ever. The delays on the series make it confusing remembering when this is set - post-"forming the New Avengers" but pre-House of M is about the only thing I can figure. Otherwise the things that Cap "gives away" to Kate don't make much sense, nor do the comments about the search for Billy and Tommy's mother - there is a nice hint of future stormy team problems there, too, as Cassie points out that their mother killed her father.

The Young Avengers continue the trend of odd and goofy codenames - speedster Tommy, show his Uncle Quicksilver's powers -and attitude - takes the name "Speed" which has the now-powered-via-transfusion Patriot (and probably a good many readers) rolling his eyes, and Captain America "gives" (via Jessica Jones) the codename Hawkeye, plus Hawkeye's bow, quiver - presumably now with quick release buckles - and arrows to Kate. As a long-time fan of the character of Hawkeye, I have real misgivings about what this means for Marvel's plans, but Heinberg handled it as well as it possibly could be handled.

At the end of the first volume/season/whatever, this has been a lot of fun, and I've enjoyed every issue, even with a few minor plotting and pacing mis-steps, on the strength of the characterizations and tone of the title. Hopefully, Heinberg and Cheung will be back on the title in early 2007 (though I'm not sure how firm that commitment is), and I'll be looking forward to it.
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Well said.

I personally thought this was a great way to wrap up the current story for now until they pick it up again.

I just hope Heinberg doesn't become too wrapped up with Wonder Woman to forget to come back to this great series.
 
Heinberg is also working on Gray's Anatomy and putting together the pilot for a new series, though, so it's not just Wonder Woman that's pulling him away. The general impression I get is that he's not too happy with the finger-pointing from Joe Q about why Young Avengers has been late, either. As Heinberg tartly pointed out, he works in a medium where you get FIRED (and no one will hire you again) for being late. So my general, read-between-the-lines impression is that all is not 100% happy and shiny between Marvel and Heinberg. TV pays so much better than comics that this isn't anything but a much-loved hobby for him
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
So... what exactly happened?
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Yeeesh, I write a long and not-all-that-spoilery review and he wants a spoiler synopsis.

Okay - the issue opens back in the thick of the fight between the Kree and the Skrull over Hulking. Patriot's been shot (last issue he stepped in front of Captain America - you know, the guy with the shield that could TAKE the blast) and Cap calls Sentry to fly Patriot off to the hospital.

Cap orders the Young Avengers off the "battle field" with pretty predictable results - a big double splash of the Young Avengers and New Avengers going into the fight together, with Captain America and Hulking both saying "Avengers Assemble!"

The we get 6 pages (3 double spreads) with everyone in battle on the left and multiple panels of the Young Avengers interacting with the New Avengers on the right.

Cassie "saves" a wise-cracking Spider-Man from being mobbed by Skrulls "A little help? I'm being skrulled alive over here!" by turning giant and plucking him out of the mob. They have a cute conversation about Spidey being a science nerd.

Kate Bishop saves Spider-Woman from being shot by firing arrows at several armed Skrulls, and Spider-Woman calls her "Hawkeye." Kate says "I'm no Hawkeye" and Spider-Woman disagrees (which is bizarre, because Spider-Woman barely knew Hawkeye).

Speedster Tommy sees Wolverine kill a Skrull (his claws are sticking out the other side of the Skrulls chest, covered with green goo), and says that he thought Avengers weren't supposed to kill. Logan says: "Relax, Junior. They're Skrulls. They'll grow back. Eventually." This pleases Tommy to know end and he literally beats the stuffing out of one, which causes Logan to say: "You're sick, kid. I like it."

Cap, of course, can't let all this mayhem go un-tsked at, and comes over to admonish them. He calls Tommy "Billy" and Billy, coming up behind him, explains that it's his twin brother Tommy, and then explains that he thinks they are the Scarlet Witch's children.

Cut to Iron Man, who is lecturing Vision about not staying in the lab like a good little android, as Iron Man told him to. Vision pretty much tells him to kiss off, but it much nicer language.

Luke Cage and Hulking are fighting together, and Hulking tells him that he's just "this year's excuse" for the Skrull vs Kree stuff, and then a bunch of Kree fly down and pluck Hulking up into the sky. The Super Skrull goes up to him, both sides are shooting at them, and Hulking comes up with A Cunning Plan (which they don't share with us, the readers.)

Next page, we're all down on the ground, and Cap, Iron Man, Kree and Skrull are hammering out a visitation agreement, where Hulking will spend half the year with the Kree and half the year with the Skrulls and have lots of earth visitation privileges in the meantime. Hulking says goodbye to all his friends, including a stunned Billy, and the Kree and the Skrull leave with Hulking, leaving a very sad Young Avengers team, most of the New Avengers and the Super Skrull.

Wolverine is not fooled, however, (or at least his nose isn't) and calls the bluff. The Super Skrull is actually Hulking and the Super Skrull has taken Hulking's place with the Kree. Many hugs all the way around. [See my comment in the review about what is going to happen when the Kree come back after figuring out the substitution, totally ticked off.]

Everyone rushes to the hospital to see Patriot, who is in the process of getting a blood transfusion from his grandfather Isaiah, who is a product of the supersoldier program. It's left for us to assume that Eli is now superpowered (or super-serumed, anyway) as a result.

Cut to the hospital lobby, where Cap's trying to tell them that they need to give up this dream, and Kate Bishop lays into him and tells him that if he'd helped them in the first place, trained them as he should have, a lot of inevitable mayhem could have been prevented, and tells him there is no way they'll stop.

Fast forward some period of time, and the last scene is at the ruined Avengers Mansion, where the Young Avengers (Kate Bishop, Hulking, Patriot, Wiccan and Stature) have convened to hold a memorial service for Teddy's "mother" - they're all busy putting the ruined memorial statues back together. Vision explains that he did some arm twisting to make sure they could be there, and the YA are scoping out the grounds for their clubhouse. [Yeah, that's not going to happen.] They all tell Hulking he looks a lot like his father, Captain Marvel, Wiccan makes a statue of Cassie's father since he doesn't have a memorial statue in the garden. A very pregnant Jessica Jones shows up, and gives Kate a note from Captain America that says "For Hawkeye" and then hands Kate Hawkeye's bow, quiver and arrows, saying that Cap told her, even if she wasn't an archer, she reminded him of Hawkeye in that he was the only person who ever stood up to Cap the way she had earlier. So Kate is Hawkeye 2 now. Then Teddy spreads his mother's ashes and everyone has a beautiful little cry together.

Billy talks about going to look for his mother (who, Cassie points out, killed her father) and they comment that Tommy didn't want to stick around, even though they had a costume and a codename for him. There is a huge "boom" in the distance, which it turns out Tommy is responsible for and he zips onto the scene in his new greeen costume and calls himself "Speed" and explains that he's been fighting the Zodiac over by the UN and he needs Billy to come and magically repair the UN building and help him take down the bad guys. Patriot objects a bit, they smash his objections down and the last full splash is the team, running into action, with Hulking saying "I can't wait to see what comes next."


There, spoilery summary. To see some of the pages, go here:
http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/2070160.html#cutid1
 
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TheManWithoutFear said:
Good summary. Thanks for that Rhyo.

Still sounds kind've WBish to me though.
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It's VERY "character-centric" rather than being action-centric, but it works amazingly well.
 
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