WWE [speculation, spoilers]

Well, **** me! I just watched the highlights from the Flair/Michaels retirement match at 'Mania. Classic stuff.

I seriously can't wait to see the whole thing, in full. Plus, the farewell ceremony at RAW.

I dare anybody else here who is skeptical about the grace, intelligence, drama, athleticism, and showmanship involved with pro wrestling to watch that match and deny the quality of the performances involved.

I'd post a Youtube link, but that would probably just speed up the rate that it will get taken down by the WWE, anway.
 
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I actually cried at the end of of Ric's match.

I'm not afraid to admit it.
 
thee great one said:
Did Ric Flair retire!?

I hope so. I hate him so much.
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Yeah, he did. And it was a professional, dignified send off, too. A respectful, fitting end to a long career.

Why the Flair hate, Toggy?

Have you seen all the classic stuff on his retrospective DVD?

Even if you don't like his persona, or his style of wrestling, you can't really deny the ways that he's innovated the sport (and yes, I have no problem referring to it as a 'sport', as far as Flair is concerned).
 
J. Agamemnon said:
that guy seriously overstayed his welcome.
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I won't deny that he's had some **** matches, in recent years. In fact, I never enjoyed ANY of Evolution's dominance, a few years back.

But I've enjoyed his performances alongside Carlito, as well as the retirement storyline. It seemed to light a fire under him, and push him to show exactly what he's still capable of.

Of course, it helps that I precisely like his mix of old school showmanship, and technical athleticism.

I know it must seem tired, for people who might have already grown up with the more intense, matbased MMA style of guys like Kurt Angle or Ken Shamrock; or the more outlandish "sports entertainment" style of the "Attitude Era". I'll concede that the more high-octane, spot-oriented ring-work of CM Punk, the Hardys, etc. probably does a better job at holding my attention, and getting the audience "into" the match.

But I still feel there's a place for wrestlers who use Flair's approach. And really, nobody else will compare.

And even in non-wrestling roles, he was usually gold on the mic.

Honestly speaking, I probably won't miss him by next week. He's had his run, and there are so many others on the roster deserving of more TV time. I'm just glad that he was given a proper goodbye, without having to drop dead first, which is something increasingly rare in the WWE, these days.
 
compound said:
Honestly speaking, I probably won't miss him by next week. He's had his run, and there are so many others on the roster deserving of more TV time. I'm just glad that he was given a proper goodbye, without having to drop dead first, which is something increasingly rare in the WWE, these days.
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because most of them are rednecks addicted to drugs, who blow all their cash and have to keep beating the **** out of their bodies even when they're old men?

I mean, as of a year or two ago, Rowdy Roddy Piper was wrestling for ECW. Rowdy ****ing Roddy ****ing Piper!
 
Zombipanda said:
because most of them are rednecks addicted to drugs, who blow all their cash and have to keep beating the **** out of their bodies even when they're old men?

I mean, as of a year or two ago, Rowdy Roddy Piper was wrestling for ECW. Rowdy ****ing Roddy ****ing Piper!
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By the same logic, then, bands with members over 50 should not remain active, or go on reunion tours?

As a person who loves wrestling, as a sport, and to a lesser extent, as an industry, I'll be the first to admit that it's not perfect.

It's drug addled, sensationalized, and potentially physically abusive.

But then again, so is rock n' roll. And punk, specifically. And hip hop. So really, where do you draw the lines?

Wrestling is a talent, a skill, a discipline. It takes training, and dedication, and athleticism, and passion. And it entertains people.

That may not be a very noble goal, but many other things in life aren't, either.

And for every Mick Foley and Abdullah the Butcher who chooses to make their reputation for taking bodyslams into barbed wire and broken glass, there are many others who are committed to expanding and diversifying the craft of pro wrestling (just as Flair had done, in his prime).

I don't see why the same people who ooh and aah at the gravity defying acrobatics of Cirque du Soleil will be so quick to dismiss a Jeff Hardy swanton from the top of a ladder. Both are professional situations that the performers willingly engage in. Both are just as likely to be subject to performance enhancing chemicals.

So why direct the righteousness exclusively at pro wrestling?
 
compound said:
By the same logic, then, bands with members over 50 should not remain active, or go on reunion tours?

As a person who loves wrestling, as a sport, and to a lesser extent, as an industry, I'll be the first to admit that it's not perfect.

It's drug addled, sensationalized, and potentially physically abusive.

But then again, so is rock n' roll. And punk, specifically. And hip hop. So really, where do you draw the lines?

Wrestling is a talent, a skill, a discipline. It takes training, and dedication, and athleticism, and passion. And it entertains people.

That may not be a very noble goal, but many other things in life aren't, either.

And for every Mick Foley and Abdullah the Butcher who chooses to make their reputation for taking bodyslams into barbed wire and broken glass, there are many others who are committed to expanding and diversifying the craft of pro wrestling (just as Flair had done, in his prime).

I don't see why the same people who ooh and aah at the gravity defying acrobatics of Cirque du Soleil will be so quick to dismiss a Jeff Hardy swanton from the top of a ladder. Both are professional situations that the performers willingly engage in. Both are just as likely to be subject to performance enhancing chemicals.

So why direct the righteousness exclusively at pro wrestling?
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Touche, salesman. Now I look like the fool.
 
Zombipanda said:
Touche, salesman.
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Funny you should use that metaphor, because I rarely "evangelize" pro wrestling; I *know* it's a difficult sell, so I usually limit discussions to those whom I already know share my enthusiasm for it.

If anything, I'd say I feel more like a lawyer for the sport; always having to rush to its defense.

The rock n' roll comparison always comes in handy, especially if somebody raises the drug issue.

But the other comparison I frequently use is superhero comics. Obviously, this is more to address the supposed immaturity of wanting to see adult men in brightly-colored tights beating the crap out of each other, against a backdrop of shifting loyalties, fragile alliances, and macho ethical dilemmas.

Comics, pro wrestling, rock n' roll... They're all 'marginal' forms of culture that were popularized in the US, and have since gained a semblance of acceptance (if not culturally, then at least commercially), in the global marketplace. I think they all kind of tap into different aspects of the same cultural psyche: the pent-up aggression, the longing for stardom, the wanting to break away from ordinary routine, the rugged individualism, etc.
 
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compound said:
I'd post a Youtube link, but that would probably just speed up the rate that it will get taken down by the WWE, anway.
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??

Seriously this statement is the stupidest thing I've read today.

Except for the watcher's defense of himself, mind you.

The video NOT getting taken down by the WWE is important... how? :sure:

No seriously, I'm not trying to be insulting, but how long it stays up is SO secondary to getting WWE enthusiasts to see it, so NOT linking to it seems kin of silly to me, especially since it's nothing 'illegal' enough for the video host take it down legal incrimination-free at the first notice from WWE.
 
ourchair said:
??

Seriously this statement is the stupidest thing I've read today.

Except for the watcher's defense of himself, mind you.

The video NOT getting taken down by the WWE is important... how? :sure:

No seriously, I'm not trying to be insulting, but how long it stays up is SO secondary to getting WWE enthusiasts to see it, so NOT linking to it seems kin of silly to me, especially since it's nothing 'illegal' enough for the video host take it down legal incrimination-free at the first notice from WWE.
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It's a clip of highlights from a match that can still only be watched in its entirety via pay-per-view, through the WWE; these are clips that haven't even been shown on 'legit' WWE cable programming in the US, let alone free-to-air TV.

And honestly, it was the only bout on the card (other than the Money In The Bank match) that I was really excited about. If others share my view, then linking to it potentially inhibits the number of possible pay-per-view orders the WWE stands to gain.

Linking to it, and thus having people rush to it, would just hasten the pace at which WWE's hawkish legal department insist on having the clip pulled. Makes sense to me, really.

Just the same, it's a moot point now; the video was gone within 30 minutes of me posting about it.
 
Flair vs. Michaels was terrific, I honestly do not think it could have been any better and I do not think he could have faced a better opponent. They both gave everything they had for the angle, both in the buildup (which I thought was the only properly built match going in) and the execution. Flair looked like he was thirty again, and Michaels was in full show-stopper mode, and the emotion was there, it was electric. It's at times like these, with performers like these, that it is possible to discuss pro-wrestling as the form of unique drama that it actually is and not fee somewhat self-conscious.
 
Entropy said:
Flair vs. Michaels was terrific, I honestly do not think it could have been any better and I do not think he could have faced a better opponent. They both gave everything they had for the angle, both in the buildup (which I thought was the only properly built match going in) and the execution. Flair looked like he was thirty again, and Michaels was in full show-stopper mode, and the emotion was there, it was electric. It's at times like these, with performers like these, that it is possible to discuss pro-wrestling as the form of unique drama that it actually is and not fee somewhat self-conscious.
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I loved flair vs HBK too great match and the next night on raw they gave flair the send off an icon like him deserves. While he may not be my favourite and never has I still have a lot of respect for him as a wrestler.
 
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