Which is your favourite Star Wars film/incarnation?

[Planet-man]

Han Solo, the guy who we saw petting Chewie and kissing Leia?

Hold on.

Your evidence for Han being a sissy is that he has an eight-foot-tall sasquatch who settles arguments by tearing opponents arms off as his best friend and seduced the most desired woman in the galaxy by being rude to her?:?

 

[SSJmole]

Your evidence for Han being a sissy is that he has an eight-foot-tall sasquatch who settles arguments by tearing opponents arms off as his best friend and seduced the most desired woman in the galaxy by being rude to her?:?

Exactly. Even in Empire when she says "I love you" he just replies "I know" That is just cool.

 

[E]

Hold on.

Your evidence for Han being a sissy is that he has an eight-foot-tall sasquatch who settles arguments by tearing opponents arms off as his best friend and seduced the most desired woman in the galaxy by being rude to her?:?

I never said nor insinuated he was a sissy. At all.

What I said was that I do not understand why people think Han Solo is some kind of rip-roaring badass that goes around shooting people and beating people up. Shooting Greedo (first) was not any kind of precedent; he didn't do anything like that again. He comforted Chewie while they were being held (twice) and fell in love with a princess.

Saying that making Greedo shoot first ruined or changed Han's character is just dumb.

 

[SSJmole]

Saying that making Greedo shoot first ruined or changed Han's character is just dumb.

I wouldn't say it's dumb at all. Especially when Lucas himself said the reason for the change was "I didn't think someone who killed in cold blood like that could have redemption." (THEN WHAT THE **** IS VADER'S REDEMPTION ABOUT?) Meaning he did it to change the character of Han and make him less ruthless.

But even if you disagree it's still not a dumb thing to think just different to your own opinion.

 

[ourchair]

I never said nor insinuated he was a sissy. At all.

What I said was that I do not understand why people think Han Solo is some kind of rip-roaring badass that goes around shooting people and beating people up. Shooting Greedo (first) was not any kind of precedent; he didn't do anything like that again. He comforted Chewie while they were being held (twice) and fell in love with a princess.

Saying that making Greedo shoot first ruined or changed Han's character is just dumb.

You've probably figured this out by now, but if it isn't clear to others, I've been arguing that I agree with you even if I disagree with Han's character.

If you choose to view Han as a rip roaring badass, Greedo shooting first doesn't make him less of a badass. If you choose to view Han as a softie in denial, Han shooting first doesn't make him any more cold-hearted.

I view him as a bad ***, but I think people invest far too much in one single scene. It's not like he engages in a drawfest EVER again, so the Greedo incident is not part of a larger pattern which defines his character.

It's an isolated scenario that means little more than "Guys like to shoot me cause I owe money and I'm just lucky. Or bad ***. It doesn't matter what it is, so long as I'm alive."

 

[E]

Especially when Lucas himself said the reason for the change was "I didn't think someone who killed in cold blood like that could have redemption." (THEN WHAT THE **** IS VADER'S REDEMPTION ABOUT?)

This is an excellent point, but doesn't change my opinion.

I think Lucas gets a lot of crap that he doesn't deserve, but I don't deny that he says and does dumb things occasionally.

If you choose to view Han as a rip roaring badass, Greedo shooting first doesn't make him less of a badass. If you choose to view Han as a softie in denial, Han shooting first doesn't make him any more cold-hearted.

I view him as a bad ***, but I think people invest far too much in one single scene. It's not like he engages in a drawfest EVER again, so the Greedo incident is not part of a larger pattern which defines his character.

It's an isolated scenario that means little more than "Guys like to shoot me cause I owe money and I'm just lucky. Or bad ***. It doesn't matter what it is, so long as I'm alive."

Yes - this is what I was trying to say but you explained it much better.

 

[Ice]

You've probably figured this out by now, but if it isn't clear to others, I've been arguing that I agree with you even if I disagree with Han's character.

If you choose to view Han as a rip roaring badass, Greedo shooting first doesn't make him less of a badass. If you choose to view Han as a softie in denial, Han shooting first doesn't make him any more cold-hearted.

I view him as a bad ***, but I think people invest far too much in one single scene. It's not like he engages in a drawfest EVER again, so the Greedo incident is not part of a larger pattern which defines his character.

It's an isolated scenario that means little more than "Guys like to shoot me cause I owe money and I'm just lucky. Or bad ***. It doesn't matter what it is, so long as I'm alive."

Thank you. That's the best way to explain it.

 

[ourchair]

Lucas himself said the reason for the change was "I didn't think someone who killed in cold blood like that could have redemption." (THEN WHAT THE **** IS VADER'S REDEMPTION ABOUT?) Meaning he did it to change the character of Han and make him less ruthless.

Lucas raises an excellent point, and as you indicate Vader is also proof that Lucas is also like, totally retarded.

Furthermore, I don't think, as far as Lucas thinks he is concerned, he was changing the character. He was merely revising it to what he wanted it to be, and just happened to be in the unfortunate situation of having let Han Solo be regarded as what he calls a "guy who killed in cold blood" by fans for 20 years and let the fans get used to that before he wanted to clarify it through editing. Which kinda makes him... AND those fans... a bunch of ****tards.

God, no wonder I hate Star Wars.

 

[E]

A more rational complaint would be in the way Han dodges the blast. It looks like he time shifts or something. It sucks.

 

[ourchair]

A more rational complaint would be in the way Han dodges the blast. It looks like he time shifts or something. It sucks.

Don't give George any ideas for ANOTHER edit.

 

[SSJmole]

This is an excellent point, but doesn't change my opinion.

I think Lucas gets a lot of crap that he doesn't deserve, but I don't deny that he says and does dumb things occasionally.

I agree he does get too much crap. I wasn't expecting you to change your opinion just the idea that if they don't agree with you then they are dumb.

God, no wonder I hate Star Wars.

Trek is just as bad.

 

[ourchair]

Trek is just as bad.

Not in the same way.

I'm not saying Star Trek is inherently better --- but I can stomach what's bad about Star Trek more than I can what's bad about Star Wars, and that is a matter of taste.

 

[SSJmole]

Not in the same way.

I'm not saying Star Trek is inherently better --- but I can stomach what's bad about Star Trek more than I can what's bad about Star Wars, and that is a matter of taste.

It was a joke. I was not going to start a trek vs Wars argument. I know you love your trek which is cool and I love my wars more still cool. I was just taking the piss

 

[Random]

I find the whole argument of "who shot first and why it matters" to be completely ridiculous, I mean it's a quarter of a second of footage that doesn't change anything really. I mean if you're going to nitpick over a split second of footage you might want to reexamine your priorities in life

 

[Planet-man]

Random, that's absurd. Gigantic, movie-changing things DO sometimes only last a split second. The length of an event has bo bearing to its significance.

Whether or not this specific event is gigantic and movie-changing is up for debate, but I guarantee you that whoever wins, it has nothing to do with how long the event is on screen for.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I'm with PM and Mole, but I can see Ourchair's point.

 

[ourchair]

It was a joke. I was not going to start a trek vs Wars argument. I know you love your trek which is cool and I love my wars more still cool. I was just taking the piss

I knew it was a joke.

It just wasn't as funny as your usual Golden Mole award winning standard.

 

[Ice]

I find the whole argument of "who shot first and why it matters" to be completely ridiculous, I mean it's a quarter of a second of footage that doesn't change anything really. I mean if you're going to nitpick over a split second of footage you might want to reexamine your priorities in life

I'm with you on that.

 

[ProjectX2]

Reviving this thread after watching Star Trek and wanting to rewatch the original trilogy...

While I do agree with the "Han shoots first" crowd I think a bigger, more annoying problem is the fact that at the end of the new version of Return of the Jedi, young Anakin is standing there with old Yoda and old Obi-Wan! **** that ****! Inconsistent crap like that annoys the **** out of me and I think it is worse than the Greedo shoots first debate.

Other than those things, I think I'm pretty much fine with the later versions (the only ones I have).

 

[Langsta]

Reviving this thread after watching Star Trek and wanting to rewatch the original trilogy...

While I do agree with the "Han shoots first" crowd I think a bigger, more annoying problem is the fact that at the end of the new version of Return of the Jedi, young Anakin is standing there with old Yoda and old Obi-Wan! **** that ****! Inconsistent crap like that annoys the **** out of me and I think it is worse than the Greedo shoots first debate.

Other than those things, I think I'm pretty much fine with the later versions (the only ones I have).

Yeah, adding young Anakin was pointless. Jeez, why not just put CG Yoda and young Obi-Wan in there? The Force ghosts are supposed to be when they died, right? So young Anakin was pointless. Old Anakin is his redemption period.