What was the voice in Blockbuster?
- Thread starter Goodwill
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Goodwill
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the Ultimate Phoenix is. Thor said do not mess with something or underestimate something that the Professor refuses to understand. I also think it's magic because it was summoned by a ritual. That right there says it all...
The fact it was summoned through a ritual, the use of the word ritual- which i believe was the word used in the arc- sort of implies magic. The word itself implies cermonies rather then technological processes or any of the ways you talk to aliens
Shadowking creating the Phoenix is possible but it isn't clicking for me. The biggest part of the Phoenix has been the all-powerful aspect and what that does to a human (Jean's) mind. I don't think you should make the Shadowking powerful enough to create the Phoenix because then the only thing that could beat him would be the Phoenix which would lead to Jean-with-the-Phoenix which would lead to the rest of the team being redundant. The Shadowking and the Phoenix should be more like opposite sides of the coin rather than creator and creation if the Shadowking is involved
Shadowking creating the Phoenix is possible but it isn't clicking for me. The biggest part of the Phoenix has been the all-powerful aspect and what that does to a human (Jean's) mind. I don't think you should make the Shadowking powerful enough to create the Phoenix because then the only thing that could beat him would be the Phoenix which would lead to Jean-with-the-Phoenix which would lead to the rest of the team being redundant. The Shadowking and the Phoenix should be more like opposite sides of the coin rather than creator and creation if the Shadowking is involved
Goodwill
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Yes, but there's a new source of power being brought into this individual... It can't be explained by emotion like marriage can and it certainly can't be explained by ordinary means. If not magic, the Phoenix is something much more than a mutant power and it's definitely not something a typical human would come across, even in a comic book. With this, I think you're playing devil's advocate, UltimateE, you're saying this for the sake of an argument. 
. What do you think it is?
. What do you think it is?Goodwill said:Yes, but there's a new source of power being brought into this individual... It can't be explained by emotion like marriage can and it certainly can't be explained by ordinary means. If not magic, the Phoenix is something much more than a mutant power and it's definitely not something a typical human would come across, even in a comic book. With this, I think you're playing devil's advocate, UltimateE, you're saying this for the sake of an argument.
I'm not, really. It is a cosmic force, just like Galactus or the Watcher. It is more like a god than anything.
Goodwill
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Well, I guess that gets into our dispute about source of magic and all that jazz. I know that you see it as two different things, so I won't try and push this anymore.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Goodwill said:
See now YOU are not understanding what I'm saying. What I was trying to get across is that changing someones origin (nothing to do with their orientation or if they get replaced by someone on a team or whatever) to something completely different isn't cool.
For example, if they changed someone who was just a human with powers, like Juggernaut, to saying that he/she is now a mutant; something like this.
You get what I'm saying GW?
Goodwill
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You don't like Sinister then? Because, as far as I am concerned, he has new powers, a new background and he's a looney toon, unlike the 616 Sinister... Ice, you're digging yourself into a hole here... Dazzler?
Blacksword
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The Phoenix force in the Ultimate U right now is the same as Thor. We know that it exists has unusual, unexplained, staggering powers... and that's all we can say about either. And just because the HFC though the Phoenix was a god doesn't mean it is. A standard plot point in 616 had cosmic beings and forces, or sufficiently advanced beings worshipped as gods all over the place, but none of them were gods in the transcendent, more than physical reality sense. 616 Thor is a being from another dimension, 616 Phoenix is a cosmic entity/force. For now all we can do is speculate and wait for things to be stated more explicitly, hopefully not for a long time.
As to the voice, let me say yet again that it speaks in normal dialogue, in normal speech bubbles. The only reason to think that it is the Phoenix or anyother paranormal force is the reemergence of the Phoenix in these issues, nothing there in and of its self. On refelction I'll withdraw my Wolverine proposal, but Kurt's still a possibility given his role in this issue. Teh dialogue isn't quite on par with 616 Kurt but thinking about it more, this Nightcrawler has had a rather different and more brutal life than his 616 counterpart. The only issue is the brimstone, but then the odor hasn't been explicitly mentioned yet in Ultimate, so he may or may not have it. Besides there's a definite pause between the voice's last words and Scott's entry. It's no more improbable than the Phoenix given the total lack of anything conclusive on that count.
As to the voice, let me say yet again that it speaks in normal dialogue, in normal speech bubbles. The only reason to think that it is the Phoenix or anyother paranormal force is the reemergence of the Phoenix in these issues, nothing there in and of its self. On refelction I'll withdraw my Wolverine proposal, but Kurt's still a possibility given his role in this issue. Teh dialogue isn't quite on par with 616 Kurt but thinking about it more, this Nightcrawler has had a rather different and more brutal life than his 616 counterpart. The only issue is the brimstone, but then the odor hasn't been explicitly mentioned yet in Ultimate, so he may or may not have it. Besides there's a definite pause between the voice's last words and Scott's entry. It's no more improbable than the Phoenix given the total lack of anything conclusive on that count.
Goodwill
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Well, the Hellfire Club was on to something, I think... I mean, if it were a mutant manisfestion like Xavier claimed it was, how'd they know it would happen to Jean and why was there a history to her power? I don't think your theory adds up to what's already been given to us.
Also, has anyone asked Bendis who he intended the voice to be? It may not be that bad of an idea because he's off the title and it appears to be going in a different direction than he planned.
Also, has anyone asked Bendis who he intended the voice to be? It may not be that bad of an idea because he's off the title and it appears to be going in a different direction than he planned.
Blacksword
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Never said the Phoenix was a mutant manifestation. Everything so far is going against that. From the HFC to Thor. But as to the voice there is zero proof for anything supernatural, no fancy buble, wierd speech or anything outside the normal aside from the speaker being off page and vanishing. The only reason people are saying Phoneix is the topic of the issue. Period. Unless it shows up otherwise in print nothing's gonna sway me. I'm prepared to eat crow but right now I see no solid proof.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Well maybe the reason as to why there is no fancy bubble is because they don't want it to be realized like that. And who says there HAS TO BE fancy bubbles for it to be someone or something supernatural?
Myself and others are [guessing] it's Phoenix beacuse at the time, Jean was again dealing with Phoenix powers overwhelming her.
Myself and others are [guessing] it's Phoenix beacuse at the time, Jean was again dealing with Phoenix powers overwhelming her.
I never got into the whole Phoenix saga except for what happened in New X-Men (Morrison), so maybe someone can answer this: Has the Phoenix force ever been shown to Jean? I don't think it talks to her like, say, the Venom or Carnage symboites talk to their hosts, but if it does, has it ever been shown via speech/thought balloons?
Goodwill
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icemastertron said:
When I read this issue, and I considered the Phoenix I wrote it out as a possibility because it had done what it's done... I thought that it was an actual person and a person that's up to something. To this day, that's what I think it is, but nothing is going on with it right now.
I don't know about the speech bubbles but it is well established that it talks and exists seperately of Jean. If no-one can find examples, we'l find out in Phoenix: Endsong. There is no way the Phoenix force can't talk with the premise of that series
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Well, in a physical state? I don't think so. Sure, it can talk freely and stuff but it can't take a physical voice, which was implied with the speech bubbles in UXM.
Goodwill said:
I agree. And the only thing I have to go off of is the Phoenix saga that occured in Morrison's New X-Men. But I understood it that if there is even communication at all as we know it, it would be telepathic - especially with a telepath.
As for the Ultimate Phoenix - who knows? They could totally change it up. But correct me if I'm wrong because as I type this I don't have the issues in front of me - but wasn't this "voice" also talking to Hank? Why would the Phoenix talk to Hank? I don't think it would.
