Villains that deserve their own story arcs

You have an excellent point there Overlord. What always made the marvel characters, both villains and heroes so interesting was their different personalities (I know we dont see a lot of this anymore in the 616, but there was a time). It would be cool to see the ultimate universe work harder on this, because it could turn out to be some kick-*** characters. Cool thread.
 
The Overlord said:
So under developed villains is different? No, that's just lazy writing. Electro is already a scummy thug, so Sandman is a scummy thug with sand powers. It seems like personalities are exactly the same, crude, stupid, boorish thugs. its kinda boring when they are the same like that.They can always do a minor retcon on that.

If sandman is just a scummy thug, give him a hook, that makes him different from the other scummy thugs out there. Give him the daughter he had movie and make him one of those bad parents that try to steal their kids away from their ex

How is ultimate shocker sympathetic, he is just a loser, his life was ruined by his own stupidity, not because of circumstances outside of his control or he was screwed over by someone else. I don' feel sorry for him, I feel contempt for him. Compare him to say Mr. Freeze or Two-Face, Shocker seems like a moron instead of a hard case.

Frankly not many USM villains are sympathetic, Gobby, Ock, Venom and Kingpin are psychopaths while Electro, Sandman, Vulture, Shocker are just greedy thugs. Scorpion and Carnage are useless throwaway characters, they aren't defined enough for me to feel sorry for them. Connors is a irresponsible jerk in the UU. The only villain I felt sorry for was Hobgoblin and he's dead now .
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Kingpin isn't a psychopath, he wouldn't be good at his job if he was.

Electro and sandman aren't the same Electro more sarcastic and snarcky ehilr sand man is pure thug.

Electro is more of a merc.

Scorpion and carnage beeing throwaway villains is purely your opinion since oviusly they have plans for them and i'd see where that goes before i'd jump to a conclusion.....

Shocker not being sympathetic is also purely your opinion seeing the guy fail so much you start to grow pity for the guy and soon we'll know more of his backstory so we'll see where that goes.

Besides, sympathetic villains are such cliches and in real life criminals aren't people you feel sorry for.

And Ultimate univese is ment to have a realistic feel.
 
Venom Melendez said:
Kingpin isn't a psychopath, he wouldn't be good at his job if he was.
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Psychopaths are people who don't feel empathy towards others, not people who are criminally insane. Kingpin is a psychopath.

Venom Melendez said:
Electro and sandman aren't the same Electro more sarcastic and snarcky ehilr sand man is pure thug.

Electro is more of a merc..
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Big deal, that's a very minor difference.

They are ultimately interchangble, just minions who work for other more intelligent villains, you could switch one for the other in a story, it wouldn't matter.

Sandman having a daugther would be more interesting than another story where he is just a hired goon.

Venom Melendez said:
Scorpion and carnage beeing throwaway villains is purely your opinion since oviusly they have plans for them and i'd see where that goes before i'd jump to a conclusion.....
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Don't care.

Carnage is more of a plot device than a character, he is almost as crappy as his 616 counter part, Carnage has no personality.

Scorpion is just a Kaine rip off, instead being his own character in the 616.

Venom Melendez said:
Shocker not being sympathetic is also purely your opinion seeing the guy fail so much you start to grow pity for the guy and soon we'll know more of his backstory so we'll see where that goes.
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So what, I should feel sorry for stilt-man or trapster because they ruined their lives through their own foolishiness instead of just getting jobs like normal people? I don't feel sorry for idiots.

Venom Melendez said:
Besides, sympathetic villains are such cliches and in real life criminals aren't people you feel sorry for.

And Ultimate univese is ment to have a realistic feel.
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And greedy thugs are not a cliche?

That's wrong a million differernt levels. Many criminals are just poor people trying to survive, who grew up in the wrong neighbourhood and didn't have access to education that many people in richer neighbourhoods. These people are trapped and have to steal to feed their families.

How is that not smypathetic or realistic?
 
The Overlord said:
Ultimate Electro: Here is another character who I think could use his arc. Give him a more defined personality, perhaps have an arc where he is working for someone but he is main enemy not the employer. Bullseye has often been used like that in Daredevil.
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I think this coudl work honestly, but, in the "Ultimate Six" arc, he was made as a mental patient, or as I saw it. For some reason though I can't take Ultimate Electro Seriously, it just dosen't happen. There would have to be a total re-model of him I beilive before a sellable arc could be made.
 
Gamma Man said:
I think this coudl work honestly, but, in the "Ultimate Six" arc, he was made as a mental patient, or as I saw it. For some reason though I can't take Ultimate Electro Seriously, it just dosen't happen. There would have to be a total re-model of him I beilive before a sellable arc could be made.
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I didn't think he was a mental patinet, just a crude, boorish, stupid thug (ex: his interactions with Sharon carter). Heck making a mental patient would interesing, there are a lot of comic villains who are interesting because they are completely insane (Typhoid Mary, Two-Face, Gladiator, joker etc...) It would make him different other thug villains out there. Heck most of Batman's villains are mental patient and they are very interesting.

However I don't think Electro fits that mold, he is more of a thug than a psychotic. Heck I wouldn't mind an Ultimate version of Shriek and she can be a completely insane villain, who is powerful and divorced from reality.

i think it would be easy to give Electro a spot light arc, just have a corporate villain kidnap hook him up to a reactor. the reactor providfes clean, cheap power, but causes Eelctro pain constantly. Spidey discovers this and tries to free him. There you go, an Eelctro spot light arc.
 
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The Overlord said:
I didn't think he was a mental patinet, just a crude, boorish, stupid thug (ex: his interactions with Sharon carter). Heck making a mental patient would interesing, there are a lot of comic villains who are interesting because they are completely insane (Typhoid Mary, Two-Face, Gladiator, joker etc...) It would make him different other thug villains out there. Heck most of Batman's villains are mental patient and they are very interesting.

However I don't think Electro fits that mold, he is more of a thug than a psychotic. Heck I wouldn't mind an Ultimate version of Shriek and she can be a completely insane villain, who is powerful and divorced from reality.

i think it would be easy to give Electro a spot light arc, just have a corporate villain kidnap hook him up to a reactor. the reactor providfes clean, cheap power, but causes Eelctro pain constantly. Spidey discovers this and tries to free him. There you go, an Eelctro spot light arc.
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I also would like a completely insane villain, much like carnage was in the spider-man animated tv show. gimmie a villain so insane spidey teams up with another villain just to bring insane one down...

another thought would be to have a strong mind control villain that spider-man has to fight, but doesn't know the fight is all in his head...questions of his own sanity would come into view...it also allows for a little used hero (daredevil, doc strange, even spider-woman) to come in and help spidey, either by making villain lose concentration or as a mental anchor spidey can hold onto and fight with (even if just in his mind)...

i just want more team-ups...that to me was always something spider-man did a lot of..
 
I think Sandman should have his own arc. It would also be nice to have a good Electro story. It just seems like Bendis has used the same story in USM for 100+ issues and hes in a slump. Even though he's starting to kinda pick it up I think they need a new writer like Mark Millar.
 
Mattimeo84 said:
I also would like a completely insane villain, much like carnage was in the spider-man animated tv show. gimmie a villain so insane spidey teams up with another villain just to bring insane one down...

another thought would be to have a strong mind control villain that spider-man has to fight, but doesn't know the fight is all in his head...questions of his own sanity would come into view...it also allows for a little used hero (daredevil, doc strange, even spider-woman) to come in and help spidey, either by making villain lose concentration or as a mental anchor spidey can hold onto and fight with (even if just in his mind)...
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You mean like something similar to "For the Man Who Has Everything?"

I'm not sure Spidey has a lot of mind control villains, besides Mysterio and he is a throwaway character in the UU.

He might have borrow a mind control villain from some other hero for that to work (ex: Purple Man, Mr. Fear, Controller, Puppet Master, Mentallo, Crossfire, etc.) I wouldn't mind USM borrowing a mind control villain from someone else, as long as Bendis treated that character with respect.
 
You know who else needs their own arc, Ultimate Mr. Negative, Ultimate Menace and Ultimate Freak. :wink::D
 
The Overlord said:
You mean like something similar to "For the Man Who Has Everything?"

I'm not sure Spidey has a lot of mind control villains, besides Mysterio and he is a throwaway character in the UU.

He might have borrow a mind control villain from some other hero for that to work (ex: Purple Man, Mr. Fear, Controller, Puppet Master, Mentallo, Crossfire, etc.) I wouldn't mind USM borrowing a mind control villain from someone else, as long as Bendis treated that character with respect.
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Mysterio can still be use, just expand on his character.

leaving him as a throw away villain, now that would be lazy.
 
Venom Melendez said:
Mysterio can still be use, just expand on his character.

leaving him as a throw away villain, now that would be lazy.
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I would like that to happen too, but Bendis doesn't seem that interested in any villain who isn't Kingpin, Dr. Octopus, a goblin, a symbiote. I thought USM was supposed to be different from 616 Spidey, so why does Bendis focus only on the same overexposed villains from the 616 universe?

I suspect if mysterio was used, he would just be some fat movie fanboy in a costume or something.


Anyway I wouldn't mind Spidey borrowing other people's villains. There is no where else for blizzard to appear, you might as well stick him in USM. Spidey already borrowed Elektra and Gladiator, you might as well but more DD villains in there.

Mr. Fear IV (Alan F agan) was more of a Spidey villain than a DD villain anyway and Spidey fighting his own fears could be interesting. Besides Spidey should have another team up with DD that is less crowded just Spidey DD and some other villain (besides Kingpin).
 
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The Overlord said:
I would like that to happen too, but Bendis doesn't seem that interested in any villain who isn't Kingpin, Dr. Octopus, a goblin, a symbiote. I thought USM was supposed to be different from 616 Spidey, so why does Bendis focus only on the same overexposed villains from the 616 universe?

I suspect if mysterio was used, he would just be some fat movie fanboy in a costume or something.


Anyway I wouldn't mind Spidey borrowing other people's villains. There is no where else for blizzard to appear, you might as well stick him in USM. Spidey already borrowed Elektra and Gladiator, you might as well but more DD villains in there.

Mr. Fear IV (Alan F agan) was more of a Spidey villain than a DD villain anyway and Spidey fighting his own fears could be interesting. Besides Spidey should have another team up with DD that is less crowded just Spidey DD and some other villain (besides Kingpin).
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That would be cool since it will be awhile till we see fisk again.

someone should try to take his place.

I also think Jack o'Lantern would be good in the UU....I mean someone has to use a glider. Or atleast make something more orginal with the character.
 
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Venom Melendez said:
That would be cool since it will be awhile till we see fisk again.

someone should try to take his place.

I also think Jack o'Lantern would be good in the UU....I mean someone has to use a glider. Or atleast make something more orginal with the character.
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See the main problem is something Millar brought up, how can take a villain with a pumpkin for a head seriously? How can you change his design while keeping the name and everything?
 
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The Overlord said:
See the main problem is something Millar brought up, how can take a villain with a pumpkin for a head seriously? How can you change his design while keeping the name and everything?
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It can be done.

He was a badass in the hoods mini. and Way did a good job with him in Ghost rider....and if Way can make him cool anyone can.

Miller is a hack, everything is blackjack and hookers with him.

I mean hell...make him more like the Jack O'Lantern legends or something.It really isn't that difficult.

I 'm sure people though ''How can anyone take a clown seriously'' yet look at the joker.

It's not impossible.
 
Venom Melendez said:
It can be done.

He was a badass in the hoods mini. and Way did a good job with him in Ghost rider....and if Way can make him cool anyone can.

Miller is a hack, everything is blackjack and hookers with him.

I mean hell...make him more like the Jack O'Lantern legends or something.It really isn't that difficult.

I 'm sure people though ''How can anyone take a clown seriously'' yet look at the joker.

It's not impossible.
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Not frank Miller, Mark Millar, that's why Jack died in Civil War. Its not impossible, there is no bad characters only bad writers, but he needs a lot of work to be threatening villain, especially if USM is supposed to be more realistic. Perhaps it would be an interesting challenge for Bendis or some other writer, to revamp him for UU, at least he wouldn't be a poor man's Goblin in USM.

Anyway I would want a DD/Spidey team up that plays up their differences. DD's world is way darker than Spidey's, Spidey fights bank robbers, while Daredevil is fights drug dealers and serial killers. Spidey should be kinda freaked out, because Hell's Kitchen should be way scarier than the rest of NYC and DD has to be way tougher than Spidey in order to survive in his world. DD for example would really beat up a drug dealer to find out info and Spidey being freaked out by DD's behavior.
 
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The solits lean pretty strongly towards shocker.... but anyway, you wanted that sort of thing, right? :wink:

Ultimate Kraven is certainly salvageable, especially now he has powers. And he escaped and all, so it's at least plauisble something will happen.
 
Pearl said:
The solits lean pretty strongly towards shocker.... but anyway, you wanted that sort of thing, right? :wink:

Ultimate Kraven is certainly salvageable, especially now he has powers. And he escaped and all, so it's at least plauisble something will happen.
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I have no problem with it being Shocker, I just have my doubts that is. The whole "trapping" Spidey chains seems more like Trapster than Shocker.

The problem with Kraven is, he doesn't seem half as intelligent as he does in the 616 universe, just giving him powers doesn't make him interesting.
 
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