V for Vendetta movie discussion

[DIrishB]

LOVED IT.

I can understand why Alan Moore would be pissed; some important things were lost but I thought worked nicely.

Heck, my wife liked it. The only reason she agreed to go is because she had a secret plan to make me see Failure to Launch, which you'll be pleased to know I thwarted. But she really liked V for Vendetta; she talked about it the whole way home.

I dragged my gf to it yesterday. She ended up liking it more than I did. I thought it was ok, but not as good as some are making it out to be.

So... seriously, doesn't he remind you of the Burger King? Maybe he's the Burger Prince? Anyone? Someone? No?

It could be W for Whopper...

Maybe a French Burger King...don't know what it is about that Guy Fox mask which reminds me of the French...maybe its the mustache and sly, deprecating smile it seems to have.

 

[Pandrio]

I'll read the graphic novel first, then see this on DVD. Good to see its getting good reviews.

I dragged my gf to it yesterday. She ended up liking it more than I did. I thought it was ok, but not as good as some are making it out to be.

I'm guessing you didn't read the comic first then, DIB?

 

[Bass]

I don't get how you can possibly call it "childish in delivery" before you've actually heard it delivered. And incidently, Weaving's delivery was perfect and I think the sceen really, really works.

I meant the writer's delivery of the character. Not the actor, who I've yet to see.

W for Wrong. First of all, he isn't "depreciated and diminished" by Evey. She thinks he's nuts precisely because she's so overwhelmed by the incredible, complicated, larger-than-life monolouge. He's a archetypal liguistic genius and she, like yourself, can't begin to comprehend what he just said.

So he's an archetypal linguistic genius who can't make common people understand him? That's like being so strong that you can't lift your own arms.

And by the way the speech actually does make sense whether you get it or not.

... So if you don't get it, it makes sense. How does it make sense if you don't get it? If you don't get it - then it doesn't make sense. *head explodes*

In any case, I've yet to see the film, and people who've seen it come out going, "Yeah, that was good" and the reason is because the themes in it are very powerful themes and the film talks about them profoundly. But the film isn't profound. Anarchy isn't people dressing up in uniforms. Stepping aside for a new order isn't a bullet-time slow-motion fight scene to the death. Sure, the film is probably okay. But considering the source material... okay is a travesty.

It's like taking Mozart and turning it into elevator music. Sure, it'll be good elevator music, but it's a debasement, and NOT an elevation. Yet, it is touted as such because it's on a big screen in a dark room.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

But the film isn't profound. Anarchy isn't people dressing up in uniforms.

I wrote it before : No anarchy in the movie. It isn't mentioned.

In fact, that show of unity at the end is rather in line with Movie V's ideology :

"People shouldn't be affraid of their governments. Governments should be affraid of their people."

I think Movie V is mainly interested in making the people who hurt him in particular and the Government in general answerable for their actions. He deals alone with his personal grievance (Prothero, Delia etc.) but he involves everyone into the larger scheme.

Forcing people in powers to answer for their misdeeds is a theme that resonate strongly these days in regard to the Bush administration. That and the theme of using fear to rule. Susan screaming "I want everyone to remember why they need us!" is a magnified version of the republicans drumming up the war on terror theme whenever they have been in hot waters for the past 5 years.

Movie V is adressing directly these concerns and that's why he is the way he is.

These same elements were much less present during the Tatcher government. Moore's grievance was that his compatriots had elected Tatcher in full knowledge of what they were getting. I guess you could sum up his feelings by "What were they thinking?". That's probably why Delia surridge before dying in the comics makes a long solliloquy about how humans can be evil and twisted. She is the archetypical good person who "went along" and made the world worse. This is also why comic V is much more of an 'educator' and why his counter-ideology is much more important to the story.

In the movie, people know what is wrong. Cowardice, not ignorance, is their main flaw preventing them from achieving their potential. So Movie V is more of a Firebrand. He's essentially the first guy willing to storm the bunker, breaking the paralysis of the rest of the platoon.

Bottom line, the comics and the movie are not the same thing. I say the comic achieve a higher mastery of its realm, but the movie stand very well on its own. It very well could become a cult classic.

At any rate, Bass :

It's like taking Mozart and turning it into elevator music. Sure, it'll be good elevator music, but it's a debasement, and NOT an elevation. Yet, it is touted as such because it's on a big screen in a dark room.

Who are these people saying the movie elevate the comic? This is called the 'Strawman' fallacy. No one said any such thing.

Just that the movie is very good.

 

[Bass]

Oh, I said it because on the V for Vendetta comic it says "Now A Major Motion Picture!" as if its a good thing.

Basically, you're right. I'm all over the place, and to be honest, not really paying attention to what anyone is saying.

Because I'm a bit of a stubborn fascist at times like this.

My point is... the film may be good. The film may have changed things to make other things work. The film may work.


BUT - the film is nowhere near the level of greatness it should be. My point was, you can say it's good, but to me, 'good' is such a step down, it's a travesty. For V for Vendetta, 'good' IS terrible. 'Good' is a waste of time. Because it should be 'Great'.

... This is my point. And until I see the film... well, you guys are talking on deaf ears.

It's my failing, I suppose, but I'm not going to be listening to everyone because I'm just too in love with the comic. Which kinda makes everything I say, possibly worthlessly subjective. I don't know.

To be honest - I don't much care.

You have no idea how hard I'm trying to not sound like a ****. I know I'm failing - but I don't mean to sound so conceited.

 

[E]

Well put, E.Vi.L.

 

[Pandrio]

Who are these people saying the movie elevate the comic? This is called the 'Strawman' fallacy. No one said any such thing.

Just that the movie is very good.

I agree, most people here would say the comic was better, but the movie is still good in its own light.

 

[thee great one]

Oh, I said it because on the V for Vendetta comic it says "Now A Major Motion Picture!" as if its a good thing.

Basically, you're right. I'm all over the place, and to be honest, not really paying attention to what anyone is saying.

Because I'm a bit of a stubborn fascist at times like this.

My point is... the film may be good. The film may have changed things to make other things work. The film may work.


BUT - the film is nowhere near the level of greatness it should be. My point was, you can say it's good, but to me, 'good' is such a step down, it's a travesty. For V for Vendetta, 'good' IS terrible. 'Good' is a waste of time. Because it should be 'Great'.

... This is my point. And until I see the film... well, you guys are talking on deaf ears.

It's my failing, I suppose, but I'm not going to be listening to everyone because I'm just too in love with the comic. Which kinda makes everything I say, possibly worthlessly subjective. I don't know.

To be honest - I don't much care.

You have no idea how hard I'm trying to not sound like a ****. I know I'm failing - but I don't mean to sound so conceited.

For someone who never had a interest in the comic. I found the movie to be great. I ordered the comic and I will put it to the test.

The part where they all dressed up as him works for the fact that V sent masks out to everyone a symbol. Now if everybody just had one, that would be stupid.

The speech works for the fact that he is making his introduction as V at the expense of Evey.

The movie did not have much action at all. The ending fight scene was the only thing and it wasn't terrible. They pulled it off nicely.

This movie ranks higher than most out there. It does a good job relating to issues today.

But I have let to read the comic so I might change my mind.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

BUT - the film is nowhere near the level of greatness it should be. My point was, you can say it's good, but to me, 'good' is such a step down, it's a travesty. For V for Vendetta, 'good' IS terrible. 'Good' is a waste of time. Because it should be 'Great'.

Look at my avatar man. I've been using it since day one. My earliest sig was a V quote ("I'm reliably informed that you always hurt the one you love, the one you shouldn't hurt at all"). Whenever there is a thread to ask about your favorite comic or to ask for a reading suggestion, I drop by to sing the praise of V for Vendetta.

I'm possibly the biggest fan of V for Vendetta on the site. And I loved the movie. You should give it at least shot.

To make a faithful translation of Moore's vision, you'd need a mini-serie. At least 6 hours, preferably 9. To try to tell exact same story in all its complexity in a bit over 2 hour would have been an ugly mess. Better make an adaptation instead of a translation. Something that works.

 

[Bass]

Okay.

That's convinced me.

But I want to point something out - because everyone has taken a cue from the film and dressed up like V and everyone has V avatars, I'm getting confused between posters. E.Vi.L. and Planet-Man aren't the same. Must remember that. So it's possible I'm having the second-half of a conversation with a different person.

All this dressing up as V nonsense in the film though - it's really a terrible fate for a romantic terrorist character espousing the individual need's for change and growth against the state.

It's that I just can't get behind. I can't see V as a mass-produced designer label.

 

[moonmaster]

I saw it last night. It was good. Not great, but good.

Things that were good about it:

-I was happy to see that several important elements were kept.
-Several of the changes they made actually helped the story.
-Hugo Weaving kicks ***. What a great choice to play V.
-I'm so happy that they changed so little of the concetration camp and the letter from Valerie. Its the most important part of the comic and it managed to keep a lot of its power. Very good on their part.

Things that SUCKED:

-Sutler. He was just a cartoonish villain with no depth.
-Finch. I hated the way he just magically becomes a "good guy" at the end.
-The final fight sequence. It went on for way too long and V's fighting style just got annoying and ridiculous. I really could've done without that.

And the two things that almost ruined the entire movie for me:

-The current political messages. V for Vendetta is meant to be timeless rather than timeley. It should apply to any situation and not make references to modern events like the Iraq War and Avian flu. Very stupid.
-V's last words to Evey. I almost threw up when he told her that he loves her. V AND EVEY ARE NOT IN LOVE!!! V ISN'T EVEN A PERSON, HE'S AN IDEA!!! IF ANYTHING, HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A FATHER FIGURE TO HER, NOT HER ****ING BOYFRIEND!!! If the Wachowski Brothers had just by chance been sitting next to me in the theater, I would have gouged their eyes out with a straw. Why does every movie need a ****ing tacked-on, last minute romance?

Despite those serious flaws, I thought the movie captured the spirit of the comic very well and was pretty entertaining.

 

[E]

-Several of the changes they made actually helped the story.

-I'm so happy that they changed so little of the concetration camp and the letter from Valerie. Its the most important part of the comic and it managed to keep a lot of its power. Very good on their part.

Agreed.

 

[UltimateSpiderBuggy]

I saw the movie last weekend with my girlfriend. I have to say I came off impressed. I liked it overall and just thought it was well made. I however cannot compare it to the comic as I have yet to read it (may pick it up over the summer).

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I saw the movie last weekend with my girlfriend. I have to say I came off impressed. I liked it overall and just thought it was well made. I however cannot compare it to the comic as I have yet to read it (may pick it up over the summer).

Another one who wants to read the comics after seeing the movie! You know, that fact alone would be enough to make the movie worthwile.

---

Random note that I didn't express earlier :

Noticed the dichotomy of V being reborn in flames and Evey being reborn in water (rain)? They didn't get into the 'two face of anarchy' bit but these images still are a nod to that aspect of the comic that couldn't be fully explored in the movie.

Noticed that one of the shadowy persona interrogating Evey (the one who says 'You're free) is essentially agent Smith? Yeah, I know it's Weaving. But the silhouette, suit and haircut on that occasion basically what he looked like in the Matrix. If he came out of the shadow, you'd expect to see Keanu Reeve in the next sequence. Probably intentional.

You noticed who was in the crowd at the end when they unmask? It's quick, but I noticed Gordon, the little girl with glasses whose death spark the riot and the interracial gay couple that get taken away in the Valerie letter sequence. Did anyone spot Valerie or Ruth in the crowd? And what about Evey's family? I bet they're there. Anyway, nice touch. Finch asked Evey who was V and she said 'Edmond Dantes, my father, my mother, my brother, you, me, all of us'. So I wonder if the guy who played Edmond Dantes in this old movie made a cameo in the crowd during that scene? After all, the guy who plays Adam Sutler, the chancellor, played the protagonist in the movie 1984.

Noticed that David Lloyd gets credit? Moore wanted no part of it, but the credit says something like : "Inspired by a comic drawn by David Lloyd". Eh.

I'm sure there will eventually be a good director's cut with plenty of additional footage. I can almost sense where the editor had to make choices and I bet the movie could easily be 30 minutes longer if they were to make a new editing for DVD.

 

[Bass]

If the Wachowski Brothers had just by chance been sitting next to me in the theater, I would have gouged their eyes out with a straw.

Why a straw, cousin?

BECAUSE IT WOULD HURT MORE.

 

[Planet-man]

You noticed who was in the crowd at the end when they unmask? It's quick, but I noticed Gordon, the little girl with glasses whose death spark the riot and the interracial gay couple that get taken away in the Valerie letter sequence. Did anyone spot Valerie or Ruth in the crowd? And what about Evey's family? I bet they're there. Anyway, nice touch.

I noticed those people in the crowd right away and I thought that was a really sweet touch. I'm pretty sure I saw Valerie and Ruth as well.

 

[Pandrio]

You noticed who was in the crowd at the end when they unmask? It's quick, but I noticed Gordon, the little girl with glasses whose death spark the riot and the interracial gay couple that get taken away in the Valerie letter sequence.

Yeah, I caught Gordon and the little girl, it was fitting to put them there.

 

[thee great one]

I just seen it for a second time.

The best part of the movie is Finch's epiphany with the domino effect.


I caught Ruth in the crowd this time. I don't think that little girl died. I think that was what could happen when Finch was saying what might happen.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I caught Ruth in the crowd this time. I don't think that little girl died. I think that was what could happen when Finch was saying what might happen.

Of course she died. The riots happened, didn't they? It was the spark.

 

[Ice]

Of course she died. The riots did happen, didn't they? It was the spark.

Yeah, I say they did, too. Cuz others who had died appeared in the crowd, too. Like Gordon. I know I saw him there.