Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Black Widow isn't the only traitor then...
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Well, I won't be happy if Natasha isn't the traitor. How do you explain working with them and shooting Jarvis if she's not?
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Life Model Decoy. Nanotech. Fleshy human-like skin; encanced cybernetic interior. Might explain the lack of remorse and sexual excitement, as well.

Not saying that it's what I'd like to see. But it seems like a reasonable enough possibility.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Well, I won't be happy if Natasha isn't the traitor. How do you explain working with them and shooting Jarvis if she's not?
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A stab in the dark - remember a few issues back, when Jarvis goes to the Billionaire's Bachelor Club and makes the announcement about Tony being in love? I always thought that it was odd that scene had been included, as it didn't really seem to establish anything we didn't already know. Maybe someone at the club approached Jarvis there and sold him on a plan to feed Ultimates secrets (Jarvis is in a plce to at least know virtually all of Tony's secrets, if not the entire group's secrets) to a unnamed group in an attempt to get rid of the Black Widow. At least that's the plan he was sold on, but in reality, it was this group with the plan to take down all of the Ultimates. Black Widow, being an agent inside the group, knows that the very jealous Jarvis has betrayed Tony, and that's why she shoots him.

This requires Black Widow to have had a change of heart, or to have been a double agent all along. If so, she picked an awfully damned LATE point to turn, as she'd be, in part, culpable for the death of Hawkeye's famiy, the destruction of the Triskelion and the death of hundreds, if not thousands, of SHIELD agents and civilians.
 
Rhyo said:
A stab in the dark - remember a few issues back, when Jarvis goes to the Billionaire's Bachelor Club and makes the announcement about Tony being in love? I always thought that it was odd that scene had been included, as it didn't really seem to establish anything we didn't already know. Maybe someone at the club approached Jarvis there and sold him on a plan to feed Ultimates secrets (Jarvis is in a plce to at least know virtually all of Tony's secrets, if not the entire group's secrets) to a unnamed group in an attempt to get rid of the Black Widow. At least that's the plan he was sold on, but in reality, it was this group with the plan to take down all of the Ultimates. Black Widow, being an agent inside the group, knows that the very jealous Jarvis has betrayed Tony, and that's why she shoots him.
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We need a hand-clapping smiley. Bravo.
 
Rhyo said:
A stab in the dark - remember a few issues back, when Jarvis goes to the Billionaire's Bachelor Club and makes the announcement about Tony being in love? I always thought that it was odd that scene had been included, as it didn't really seem to establish anything we didn't already know. Maybe someone at the club approached Jarvis there and sold him on a plan to feed Ultimates secrets (Jarvis is in a plce to at least know virtually all of Tony's secrets, if not the entire group's secrets) to a unnamed group in an attempt to get rid of the Black Widow. At least that's the plan he was sold on, but in reality, it was this group with the plan to take down all of the Ultimates. Black Widow, being an agent inside the group, knows that the very jealous Jarvis has betrayed Tony, and that's why she shoots him.
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I always thought the scene was too make us fully believe this wasn't going to be a fling. Jarvis was talking to a group of people who knew Tony Stark's behavior of women and was making it clear that unfortunately this was not one of Tony's usual dealings.


Rhyo said:
This requires Black Widow to have had a change of heart, or to have been a double agent all along. If so, she picked an awfully damned LATE point to turn, as she'd be, in part, culpable for the death of Hawkeye's famiy, the destruction of the Triskelion and the death of hundreds, if not thousands, of SHIELD agents and civilians.
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Exactly. She's screwed if she's suddenly "had a change of heart". And while we're on the subject. Why does everyone want this to be the case? It's so damn cliche to have Black Widow go soft. I want to see this Black Widow actually live up to her name. Not that I don't like the 616 Widow but I'd rather see her turn traitor then turning one of the others into the greatest American Villain in the UU.
 
Rhyo said:
This requires Black Widow to have had a change of heart, or to have been a double agent all along. If so, she picked an awfully damned LATE point to turn, as she'd be, in part, culpable for the death of Hawkeye's famiy, the destruction of the Triskelion and the death of hundreds, if not thousands, of SHIELD agents and civilians.
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Maybe she knows this was the only way to make the infiltration complete. Hawkeye's family dying is tragic, but nowhere near as tragic and dangerous as this team of villains overthrowing the most powerful government in the world.
 
I read through the Handbook again and thought about it. Stuart has said over and over he's not the writer and knows as much as we do. I looked at other entries and saw the "vagueness" of resolutions in characters stories. Personally, if I were Millar, at this point I'd be insulted. Everyone wants another twist. This twist of Widow not being the traitor at this point would make things look choppy in the comic. I don't see how anything could smoothly explain Widow being good guy and someone else being the traitor. I think the story Millar has written to this point is borderline perfect and find it discomforting that so many people think that it's not as good because they want some new twist to shake things up.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I read through the Handbook again and thought about it. Stuart has said over and over he's not the writer and knows as much as we do. I looked at other entries and saw the "vagueness" of resolutions in characters stories. Personally, if I were Millar, at this point I'd be insulted. Everyone wants another twist. This twist of Widow not being the traitor at this point would make things look choppy in the comic. I don't see how anything could smoothly explain Widow being good guy and someone else being the traitor. I think the story Millar has written to this point is borderline perfect and find it discomforting that so many people think that it's not as good because they want some new twist to shake things up.
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I don't think Millar would be insulted. As you said, I don't know the resolution of the story, a deliberate choice on my part (I could have asked, though they might have said no, but I saw no reason to ask). But we were told not to present certain things as done deals, so Millar could have ended speculation if he wanted to. However, I think he likes to keep people guessing - we may now know the truth behind Thor's godhood and who the traitor is...or we may not. And while people speculate about it, it keeps discussion and interest in the title building, which is no bad thing.
 
Stuart said:
I don't think Millar would be insulted. As you said, I don't know the resolution of the story, a deliberate choice on my part (I could have asked, though they might have said no, but I saw no reason to ask). But we were told not to present certain things as done deals, so Millar could have ended speculation if he wanted to. However, I think he likes to keep people guessing - we may now know the truth behind Thor's godhood and who the traitor is...or we may not. And while people speculate about it, it keeps discussion and interest in the title building, which is no bad thing.
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No speculation definitely isn't a bad thing. But I think people are taking what you're saying and only taking it half way with she may not be the traitor and forgetting the she may be the traitor half.
 
In tradition of the recent Matrix game......the real traitor will be revealed in panel with the duo of Hitch and Millar. Who will reveal that they've turned over creative control of "The Ultimates" to Bendis. :lol:
 
Victor Von Doom said:
In tradition of the recent Matrix game......the real traitor will be revealed in panel with the duo of Hitch and Millar. Who will reveal that they've turned over creative control of "The Ultimates" to B*****. :lol:
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That word needs banning.
 
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Victor Von Doom said:
In tradition of the recent Matrix game......the real traitor will be revealed in panel with the duo of Hitch and Millar. Who will reveal that they've turned over creative control of "The Ultimates" to Bendis. :lol:
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HAHAHAHAHA
 
Victor Von Doom said:
In tradition of the recent Matrix game......the real traitor will be revealed in panel with the duo of Hitch and Millar. Who will reveal that they've turned over creative control of "The Ultimates" to Bendis. :lol:
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Post of the year?
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
No speculation definitely isn't a bad thing. But I think people are taking what you're saying and only taking it half way with she may not be the traitor and forgetting the she may be the traitor half.
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Well, I think that's because it's pretty easy, given the evidence directly in the issues, to peg her as the traitor, but coming up with a reason she isn't THE traitor requires ingenuity and imagination and is, hence, more of a challenge to the reader awaiting his/her bimonthly/quarterly issue,
 
Rhyo said:
Well, I think that's because it's pretty easy, given the evidence directly in the issues, to peg her as the traitor, but coming up with a reason she isn't THE traitor requires ingenuity and imagination and is, hence, more of a challenge to the reader awaiting his/her bimonthly/quarterly issue,
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I think, from what I've read throughout the net, the only challenge is accepting it.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I think, from what I've read throughout the net, the only challenge is accepting it.
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Accepting which? Or either?

Millar DID say something along the lines that the traitor was obvious and we'd kick ourselves when we saw who it was (back when everyone was speculating it was Cap on the partially blacked-out cover). Now, MM enjoys having his comics discussed and poured over and argued back and forth, it delights him to no end, so I wouldn't put it past him to throw something upon the speculation bonfire.
 
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