Ultimates V2 #10 Discussion (SPOILERS)

UltimateE said:
I have a poll here somewhere asking how disappointed readers would be if this turns out to be "Ultimates Disassembled" and we find out Wanda is behind it all - I'd be interested to see your comments there.
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"Disappointed" is far too mild a word to cover how pissed off I'd be....
 
ProjectX2 said:
Is it just me or are we getting a lot of new members here all of a sudden?
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I noticed that too.....and not just with this board. It's happening to like 7 other boards I post on.


THE NOOBS AND LURKERS ARE RISING!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!! :panic:
 
Jackie Estacado said:
who actually thinks millar would be so lame to do this? :?
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Well, I can see an appeal in it -- sort of. It's kinda fun to imagine what the Ultimate and 616 versions of characters would think of each other and the differences in their circumstances. Past that, though, I don't see good story potential in it.
 
Yeah, that wasn't meant to go off track. Back to the issue.
 
UltimateE said:
Always good to have a lurker deflowered. Welcome. :D



I have a poll here somewhere asking how disappointed readers would be if this turns out to be "Ultimates Disassembled" and we find out Wanda is behind it all - I'd be interested to see your comments there.
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I want to deflower a lurker.
 
I don't really EXPECT Wanda to be used to "fix" everything - after all, it is pretty easy for any writing team to kinda ignore after-effects if they choose (even if a large part of the country is torn up!). I was just wondering, from previous issues, exactly HOW damaged the country is supposed to be from this attack - with the legions of disposable super soldiers at work, and given the destruction in NYC, it would appear to be pretty substantial..but, then again, MOST of the major damage would probably be centered in major urban centers.

AND...post the Hulk's rampage in NYC, the book did deal with the after effects somewhat (I thought this gave the Hulk storyline a lot more impact..everything wasn't simply "all better" the next day..there were consequences.... including FUNERALS!_ ). Still, I did wonder, a time or two, if they weren't going to SO radically damage things...alter characters...that it would be almost impossible to leave things as they were...

But I don't really expect that to be how it goes... actually, ANOTHER element of the Ultimates that makes the book have a more realistic flair is that while the characters' superpowers really are..well..super..amazing... they are used in a more sparing fashion than is generally the case in comics - it is a bigger deal each time they are used. So having the Scarlet Witch "just" zap everything back in place would be pretty outta character for the series to date...

LOL Really ticked that it is likely to be months and months and...MONTHS....until we get to read the next one....

Shadow
 
I just don't know how millar is going to handle this. Only 2 issues left! I hope he does a good work.
 
On another note - you KNOW how gabby newcomers can be! -- wanted to see what folks thought about a point that I have been considering....

It has been pretty well established that Nick Fury and SHIELD spy on everybody. In the first lunch discussion between Fury and Banner, WAY back when, this was touched on. Fury had secret cameras in Hawkeye's house. There have certainly been some plot-friendly lapses (why was Cap so easily able to find Pym, when SHIELD seemed unable to.... unless Fury and company WANTED Cap to...er..find Pym...Hmmmm), but the general sense is that SHIELD noses around in everyone's business.

Okay... so Hank Pym is "fired", leaving the team under semi-friendly circumstances (Cap may have kicked his butt, but after he "sedated" Banner for Banner's "execution" -- is ANYTHING straightforward with these ULITMATES? -- he and Fury parted on good terms), his head FULL of inside info on super soldier formulas, the workings of Giant Man and the Wasp, inside info on the Ultimates and SHIELD. He falls on some hard times and Fury knows this (right up front, given the discussions they had over the Ultrons). He is slumming with a wannabe super team. And so on. This guy has "potential security leak" written all over him.

SO... was he under surveillance? If not, why not? And if so, how closely? (Believe there was reference to Fury being aware of his lunch meetings with "the Wasp"?).

I mean... this guy is a big-time loose end. Was SHIELD unaware of the Black Widow visiting him (assuming it WAS the Widow visiting him?)? I guess you could make the case that folks assumed it was just a friendly visit... maybe... but... no bugs in that apartment? And from their discussion, it sure seems Pym was well aware that Widow as a traitor... which implies other discussions. And after the events in Issue 10, it becomes clear that while Pym was in the dark re the SCOPE of the "bad guys" plans, there must have been substantial interaction to arrange for the building of the Ultron army.

Are we to assume that this all take place right under SHIELD's nose? Or was Fury aware and will there be a twist upcoming (I have read some discussion of that earlier in this Thread)?

Shadow

PS - Unrelated, but... *S*... I DO hope that in the new ULTIMATES run, they retain the convention of NO THOUGHT BALLOONS. Another part of the "realistic" and... ambiguous... portrayal of events which makes the book more engaging.
 
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Well, given the portrayal of Fury in Ultimates Annual, it's hard to accept that he didn't have multiple contingency plans going. OTOH, in issue #8, when Fury is lamenting his slip-ups that he thinks cost Hawkeye and his family their lives, seems pretty genuine, too.

The last time we SAW Fury and Pym together, when Hank showed up at the Triskelion with his robots, Fury was not what you'd call cordial, but if you assume that Hank went to him after the traitor (okay, the Black Widow) approached him, it'd make sense. Not that it makes sense for the Widow and her crowd to trust Hank NOT to betray them.
 
It would make sense for SHIELD to be monitoring Pym. That also brings up the idea that if Fury was bugging Pym's apartment, then why wasn't Fury aware of Black Widow's betrayal. I think this is all going to be put on Fury's blindness to the prospect of an international attack on the US.

However this ends, it's going to have to be concluded in Ultimates #12. Whatever they come up with, it's going to have to be so significant as to massively tip the scales in favor of the Americans and the Ultimates. The only way I see this happening is if some force other than the Ultimates enters the fight and tips the scales against the "Liberators" and their army. The Ultimates are great and everything, but they can't possibly fight off tens of thousands of "foot soldiers."
 
enter Ultimate Hulk and Ultimate Xmen, Ultimate FF and of course a new Thor with righteous anger. Sounds good anyway. But it's just a little to close to what I expect form Ult. Extinction.
 
MaxwellSmart said:
The Ultimates are great and everything, but they can't possibly fight off tens of thousands of "foot soldiers."
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Oh, I'm not so sure, Mate.
The track record of "Foot soldiers" against "main cast members" in comic books isn't exactly on your side here. :wink:
That said, I know what you're saying. I'd like a whole new series devoted to beating seven shades of dung out of each of these Liberators in turn, but, the delays being what they are, I'll just be happy whenever they finally wrap this mess up :D
 
Since the "foot soldiers" ARE apparently very widely dispersed, geographically, I tend to think some "help" will be needed..probably the Ultrons. Also, by having the Ultrons and foot soldiers wipe out large numbers of each other... you can end up with just a few Ultrons left over in the Ultimates universe, for future use...*S*

On the other hand, it is possible that Stark will figure out some way to "mass fry" the foot soldiers, through their suit technology.

Do you think we can expect the European super soldiers.. Capt Britain and company...to also come into play?

Shadow
 
MaxwellSmart said:
It would make sense for SHIELD to be monitoring Pym. That also brings up the idea that if Fury was bugging Pym's apartment, then why wasn't Fury aware of Black Widow's betrayal. I think this is all going to be put on Fury's blindness to the prospect of an international attack on the US.

However this ends, it's going to have to be concluded in Ultimates #12. Whatever they come up with, it's going to have to be so significant as to massively tip the scales in favor of the Americans and the Ultimates. The only way I see this happening is if some force other than the Ultimates enters the fight and tips the scales against the "Liberators" and their army. The Ultimates are great and everything, but they can't possibly fight off tens of thousands of "foot soldiers."
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Chaos Magic.

Ultimates Disassembled.

New Ultimates, coming this fall.
 
I hope so. And I'd like more than just a panel of splash art followed by "they're all dead," at that...
(Yeah, I was pretty disappointed by the dismal showing by the ultimates reserves. We didn't even see most of 'em go down. We're simply left to assume there are no more four seasons or rocketmen after the flavor text tells us the UR are all dead.)
 
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